RIPPA Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Just a point of order - Asuka has a lot more matches in the time period than just NXT 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If I'm putting 16: 1) Sasha Banks 2) Bayley 3) Becky Lynch 4) Kevin Owens 5) John Cena 6) Finn Balor 7) Samoa Joe 8) Rusev 9) Brock Lesnar 10) New Day 11) Asuka (I'd compare her NXT tenure with Brock's year in that she feels like a big deal every time she walks out, even if the match quantity isn't high. There's also her Japanese work in the time period) 12) Neville (think he's been one of the few bright spots on the main roster) 13) Luke Harper (kind of in a quagmire storywise, he's still been an incredibly solid performer night-in and night-out.) 14) Tyler Breeze (matches with Liger and Balor) 15) Roman Reigns (put him up against Sasha or Becky, plz) 16) Baron Corbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Cesaro had 68 televised matches after March up until his injury in November according to Cagematch. Should he be eligible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 I have not ruled a single person out yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Explanation here I appreciate your explanation, so don't take my abbreviated quote above to mean that I don't or didn't read it. It's abundantly clear you feel strongly about that match and see things in it that you either refuse/don't want to see in the Bayley/Sasha matches. That's fine. This is the subjective nature of things. And if you're going to throw down the gauntlet, don't whine when someone actually asks you to back that up. As for Sasha vs Charlotte, I already disqualified that from this particular conversation because it was a match that I personally dug the hell out of because of how heated it was so I'm not sure why you're hanging onto that so much when the clearer point of contention was the Sasha/Becky match vs the Sasha/Bayley match. You stated your case for the one, so I appreciate that. Also, please don't assume that everyone reads every single thing on this board. I have never once stepped into any of the MOTY threads. Why? Because I already have what my own favorite match of the year is and that's good enough for me, at least when it comes to WWE. I don't really want to take part in a pissing match for something that isn't going to enhance how much I enjoyed something. If there was a particular discussion in there, you could have just linked to it and that would also have sufficed. As it is though, at least it's something to fall back on when the time comes for needing ammunition when debating one wrestler vs. another. I would for sure link back to what you wrote back it was impassioned and well said. EDIT: Cleaned up a few things and tried to make it clear I thanked El Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 It's abundantly clear you feel strongly about that match and see things in it that you either refuse/don't want to see in the Bayley/Sasha matches. That's fine. This is the subjective nature of things. And if you're going to throw down the gauntlet, don't whine when someone actually asks you to back that up. "Well, you are clearly wrong, but instead of saying anything about why the match I like is better, I'm just going to devalue your opinion because clearly you just didn't see what made those matches better and I'm going to belittle your opinion to show how right I am." Hey, Craig, Bayley/Sasha at Brooklyn was my MOTY. I loved that match. I just think that Becky/Sasha is right up at that same level. God forbid. EDIT: This is getting stupid. Craig, I like that matchup much more then you do, as I don't dislike Bayley/Sasha to any degree, I'm just willing to acknowledge it wasn't a perfect "bell to bell" match. I think Becky/Sasha from word go to the finish was a better match from an execution stand point. However, I will acknowledge it didn't have the emotion to it that Sasha/Bayley in Brooklyn did. Both to me are completely fantastic matches that were better then anything else the WWE did this year. And that's as much as I'm gonna say about this to avoid this argument continuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If no one is ruled out yet I would like to push for Rollins a bit more. People really hated his HHH lite promos and I get that, but he was the in ring workhouse for a solid chunk of the voting period. I would definitely rather have Rollins in this thing than Ambrose if I had to chose between the 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 If no one is ruled out yet I would like to push for Rollins a bit more. People really hated his HHH lite promos and I get that, but he was the in ring workhouse for a solid chunk of the voting period. I would definitely rather have Rollins in this thing than Ambrose if I had to chose between the 2. I can't think of one match from Rollins in the voting period I would consider really good. In fact Rollins PPV main events being let downs were basically a constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I think it's worth noting that I thought Sasha was the best performer in that fatal four way on NXT also and Sasha had a nice match with Nikki Bella. She hasn't reached the heights on her NXT performances but she's still be real solid. Also, I don't buy this rehearsal argument at all. Dudes on the main roster spend months married on the road in house match after house match. How many times has Owens fought Ziggler including house matches? Several dozen? I'm just using that as an example. Whenever two dudes have a great match on a RAW or PPV it's worth pointing out that they have most likely already wrestled one another a bunch of times and they know what works and what doesn't work, and it helps on timing and everything else.. So basically, if you are using the rehearsal argument then that goes for EVERYONE. House matches ARE practice. Owens and Cena had a few really good matches with one another but they used the same exact spots in each match. Nobody said shit though did they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Are we going by air date or taping date? Might be important to know for the Samoa Joe vs. Sami Zayn 2 out of 3 Falls Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I agree with El Dragon 100% about Sasha/Becky. It's a fantastic match just a hair behind Sasha/Bayley. Rollins' best match was against Neville. In fact it's the only time I can recall giving a shit about anything he did all year. Jamie Noble was the only good thing about that whole act. In fact I'd probably nominate him before I would Rollins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp, broken circa 1988 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I would stick up for Rollins. Rollins pulled something completely incredible out of Sting, delivered two really different matches with Ambrose (one hold heavy and one total car wreck) that I thought were very good in their own ways, and while I know fuck finishes hurt matches for some people I loved Summerslam Rollins/Cena start to finish. plus i mean EDIT: Oh I forgot the four way with Reigns, Ambrose and Orton which was WAY more fun than anyone gave it credit for being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Are we going by air date or taping date? Might be important to know for the Samoa Joe vs. Sami Zayn 2 out of 3 Falls Match. For this - air date. The big reason is otherwise it would eliminate most of Lucha Underground (well and technically TNA but no one cares about TNA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Its also a perfectly good argument that Becky's next best match wouldn't be as good as Sasha's next three (vs. Bayley twice, vs. Charlotte in the title defense). I'm actually not sure what Becky's next best match would be? The Fatal Fourway where Sasha won the belt? How many times has Becky been put in a position to have a 15-20 minute match with a crowd that gives a shit. Saying "Well she hasn't had the same number of really great matches at Takeovers" is a no duh statement when Becky only had one singles match at a Takeover, and it was really really fucking good. I'm confused by our discussion at this point. You were arguing Becky was better than Sasha and using the notion that they had their best match together as evidence that Becky could have succeeded if given the same opportunities as Sasha unless I am confused. You also argued that Becky was doing better on the main roster than Sasha which seems counter your previous point as Becky has gotten more high profile work there than Sasha (but not as good as Sasha's NXT work because its not the same situation/opportunity). So your argument seems to be that Sasha performed better than Becky during this time frame, but Becky is the superior worker with less actual output? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Correct, or that they are right at each others level as workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Which still didn't quite reach the heights of Sasha's NXT work. To use the overused cliche, Becky is a B+ player who won't ever make a significant impact other than filling out roster depth. I think that's going too far. She's got really great natural babyface charisma and is fluid chaining moves together and on the mat. She's the third best women's worker in WWE/NXT of 2015/16 and I could see her getting a lot better. She's more natural in the ring than Bayley, who still has moments of awkwardness - particularly when she's on top. I think mechanically, Becky has a ton going for her with especially a penchant for limb work. I don't think she has ever connected with the crowd to the extent that Sasha or Bayley have and spent a lot of her time in NXT trying to figure out who she was and what she stood for in terms of character. I don't think she would be able to carry the division as the top face as she still has some issues with connection when I watch her work. If she was a dude, I could see her as a secondary champion but not as THE GUY to build around. To her credit, she's probably the person who has gotten the most out the Diva's Revolution by not having her character flip around like a flounder and being a nice steady face. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Agreed. I think her character work is definitely her weakness and though I don't watch Raw other than a few youtube highlights, she seems to be getting better at that on the main roster than she ever was in NXT. If she finds more depth to her sympathetic babyface charm that she already has going for her, I don't think there's much stopping her from being on the same page as Sasha or Bayley as the total package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Rollins pulled something completely incredible out of Sting Like his vertebrae? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Charlotte: I think all 4 of the Horsewomen have to be here, right? If anyone has a better argument for Charlotte, please make it, because she does not impress me at all. She's had a bunch of really good matches. Her match against Bayley on NXT building Bayley up for the Takeover match was really great. She's had a bunch of very good matches on Raw, too. And her shtick with her Dad is really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 She does seem to be growing into the Flair routine pretty well. Even her woo has improved, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Charlotte's kind of gotten a bad rap lately since coming to the main roster and during her deemphasis as the ace of the NXT ladies. To me, she's on the second tier of women on the roster due to having amazing physical attributes but still lacking a certain degree of confidence to her performance since she's being forced into Ric's shadow. I liked her a lot better when she focused on being for of her own person and didn't do things just because Ric did (like chops... don't do chops). The genetically superior gimmick was always a heel gimmick though and she should have been a heel more in developmental to work on that part of her game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Charlotte: I think all 4 of the Horsewomen have to be here, right? If anyone has a better argument for Charlotte, please make it, because she does not impress me at all. She's had a bunch of really good matches. Her match against Bayley on NXT building Bayley up for the Takeover match was really great. She's had a bunch of very good matches on Raw, too. And her shtick with her Dad is really great. Any matches you care to pimp that were not worked with Bayley, Sasha, or Becky? I think those three have more than proven that they warrant inclusion, but I'm not so sure about Charlotte. Is there a particularly awesome aspect of her matches with the other three horsewomen that *she* contributed? Being able to work with/be carried by some of the best workers in the company shouldn't necessarily mean she deserves inclusion. Similarly - is the gimmick enjoyable because of what Charlotte is doing, or because Naitch is doing such a good job at playing proud Papa? She just hasn't really shown me much of anything to warrant the hype. She has a shitty finisher and bland ringwork/character work - if that's our criteria we might as well include Del Rio too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think Charlotte's best stuff was with Sasha in NXT first in the Fatal Four Way and the rematch when Sasha was in her face turn. I wouldn't say she was better than say Emma despite be a more featured and protected part of the program. This is how I feel exactly about Charlotte. I'd nominate: Sasha Banks Becky Lynch Emma Bayley Asuka Kevin Owens Roman Reigns Big E Chad Gable Scott Dawson I'm doing this while assuming that injured folks are out of the running, like John Cena. I'm also on the fence about Xavier Woods who, as a personality, is probably the best guy they have on the stick and perfect in his usual role of managing Kofi and Big E. Fuck it, I'll throw him on there. Xavier Woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I do think Charlotte's gotten better in the last month when it comes to things like her physical reactions. She'll be better in a year than she is now. I don't think this is her year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Add Sasha vs. Naomi from this week's SD! to the list. Very good match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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