Goodear Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Didn't Rusev retire after last year's Mania? I don't remember anything else with him in it... Fuck you Dolph. Love you Rae Rae. I prefer E to Kofi myself, I think both are obviously revitalized but E's got more impact for me as the muscle of the team. Kofi has been much better in New Day but his offense didn't translate and he had to do away with most everything (which was the right move) but it kind of made him generic in his heat segments. E didn't have the issue. E's also my uncle and my daddy. Sheamus was obviously the guy designed to put Roman over so I don't know if you can say he failed so much as did exactly what he was supposed to do and actually got some heat out of the deal and got Roman cheered for once and did it from a position with zero momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Bayley and Sasha I would nominate because they were two of the most electrifying performers in wrestling last year. Charlotte and Becky are good, but they aren't at Bayley and Sasha's level. I'd also leave Emma out because while her heel character is fun, she didn't turn it up until the last couple months. They get outclassed by others deserving of a spot. Kofi is another guy who should be in it. I never thought I would like Kofi as much as I do, but he's shined brightly on the mic and in the ring with the New Day. His star shines even brighter because it's pretty clear Big E and Xavier are trying to get him over a ton. For other NXT guys, I really think Corbin and Joe belong. I'm leaving out Finn because he's been spinning his wheels for the last 3 or 4 months and hasn't done much to separate himself from his formula. I'm leaving out other guys like Gable too because I think their year is next year. And if mic work alone got you in, then Enzo deserves a spot since I don't think there's anyone better than him on the stick, but in terms of what he does in ring, it's not close to the growth and work from Corbin or the resurgence of Joe. Other main roster WWE guys that should be in would be Brock, Roman, Cena, Rusev and Owens. This is all very chalk, but they were all outstanding this year. I kind of want to include Ambrose, but he's so goddamn hit or miss in the ring and I'm high off of the stuff he was doing on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Amusingly, I think it's been pretty clear on the main show that Becky has been better then Sasha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Sasha was out for a bit, but everything Sasha did in NXT vastly outshines anything Becky has done. I would take 4 or 5 months of Sasha in NXT over an entire year of Becky on the main roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I almost hate to use this argument, but Sasha had weeks in advance to prep those NXT matches. Since she's got to the main show, she flat out hasn't been the same, were as Becky has been just as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Which still didn't quite reach the heights of Sasha's NXT work. To use the overused cliche, Becky is a B+ player who won't ever make a significant impact other than filling out roster depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 And yet there is a perfectly good argument that Sasha's best match was against Becky. Not everyone will agree, but it's not an outlandish argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Sheamus was obviously the guy designed to put Roman over so I don't know if you can say he failed so much as did exactly what he was supposed to do and actually got some heat out of the deal and got Roman cheered for once and did it from a position with zero momentum. If Sheamus' role was to have everyone hate the fact that they gave him the belt so bad that they'd actually cheer Roman, I guess that is a win. That wasn't, "we want to see Roman beat him" heat, that was "why the hell is he the champion?" heat. I don't look at that as a positive, even though I can't dispute that it kind of worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Oh jesus, that tired "rehearsal" argument. Can we move on past that because we've thoroughly debunked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Rusev Cena Joe Balor Corbin Brock Roman Ambrose Sasha Becky Bayley Owens Big E Kofi Rollins I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but that seems like a solid 16 to me. Take the injured guys off and I could find about 15 other people I would stick in before Charlotte. Just from NXT I would take Jordan, Gable, Dash, Dawson, Asuka, Emma and Enzo over her for various reasons. Pretty much her only qualification is wrestling on TV the entire calendar year and I put practically no value on that. Quality over quantity all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Uh, how have we debunked it when there still isn't a Sasha match better then "pretty good, I guess" on the main show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 And yet there is a perfectly good argument that Sasha's best match was against Becky. Not everyone will agree, but it's not an outlandish argument. Dude, what? So tell me, what is the argument to put Sasha vs Becky over either Sasha vs Bayley match, or hell, that wicked match between Sasha and Charlotte where Sasha ripped out Charlotte's weave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Its also a perfectly good argument that Becky's next best match wouldn't be as good as Sasha's next three (vs. Bayley twice, vs. Charlotte in the title defense). I'm actually not sure what Becky's next best match would be? The Fatal Fourway where Sasha won the belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Sheamus was obviously the guy designed to put Roman over so I don't know if you can say he failed so much as did exactly what he was supposed to do and actually got some heat out of the deal and got Roman cheered for once and did it from a position with zero momentum. If Sheamus' role was to have everyone hate the fact that they gave him the belt so bad that they'd actually cheer Roman, I guess that is a win. That wasn't, "we want to see Roman beat him" heat, that was "why the hell is he the champion?" heat. I don't look at that as a positive, even though I can't dispute that it kind of worked. It's heat that got Roman Reign cheered like mad in Philly where he was persona nan grata at the Royal Rumble a year before. Mission Accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 And yet there is a perfectly good argument that Sasha's best match was against Becky. Not everyone will agree, but it's not an outlandish argument. Dude, what? So tell me, what is the argument to put Sasha vs Becky over either Sasha vs Bayley match, or hell, that wicked match between Sasha and Charlotte where Sasha ripped out Charlotte's weave? Wait, what? Are we suddenly retconning that everyone fucking loved Sasha/Becky to the point were there were legitimate MOTY talks, and that it still was almost unanimously put in the WWE's top 5 matches of 2015 on this board? And really, the Charlotte/Sasha match on that level? You are the first I've ever seen put it there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Its also a perfectly good argument that Becky's next best match wouldn't be as good as Sasha's next three (vs. Bayley twice, vs. Charlotte in the title defense). I'm actually not sure what Becky's next best match would be? The Fatal Fourway where Sasha won the belt? How many times has Becky been put in a position to have a 15-20 minute match with a crowd that gives a shit. Saying "Well she hasn't had the same number of really great matches at Takeovers" is a no duh statement when Becky only had one singles match at a Takeover, and it was really really fucking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I'm gonna read the rest of the thread now but is there really any point in including like......fucking Stardust or Curtis Axel or whomever? Reigns Lesnar Cena Sasha Becky Bayley Ambrose Owens Balor Kalisto something new day edit: I'd add Kana/Asuka as well. maybe Joe too but that's it. Ok trying to think of people that weren't hurt much during the period was tough. But anyway I think that's pretty much it regarding folks people would really go bat for. Look I like Baron Corbin screaming at ex indy guys but I'd be much cooler if his spot went to like, Triton or someone like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 And yet there is a perfectly good argument that Sasha's best match was against Becky. Not everyone will agree, but it's not an outlandish argument. Dude, what? So tell me, what is the argument to put Sasha vs Becky over either Sasha vs Bayley match, or hell, that wicked match between Sasha and Charlotte where Sasha ripped out Charlotte's weave? Wait, what? Are we suddenly retconning that everyone fucking loved Sasha/Becky to the point were there were legitimate MOTY talks, and that it still was almost unanimously put in the WWE's top 5 matches of 2015 on this board? And really, the Charlotte/Sasha match on that level? You are the first I've ever seen put it there. Ok, stop.You said there is a perfectly good argument that Sasha's best match was against Becky, that not everyone would agree, and it wasn't outlandish. I asked you to give me what this argument is for Sasha vs Becky being better than either Sasha vs Bayley match and threw in Sasha vs Charlotte because there was hate in that match that totally pleased me. The crux of the request is though, what is the argument. I didn't ask you to come back to me with claims of retconning anything or what this board voted as MOTY. I'm asking you what the argument is. Don't make the claim and then beg off if you're challenged to present it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Which still didn't quite reach the heights of Sasha's NXT work. To use the overused cliche, Becky is a B+ player who won't ever make a significant impact other than filling out roster depth. I think that's going too far. She's got really great natural babyface charisma and is fluid chaining moves together and on the mat. She's the third best women's worker in WWE/NXT of 2015/16 and I could see her getting a lot better. She's more natural in the ring than Bayley, who still has moments of awkwardness - particularly when she's on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Also, when I went through my list, I thought that there might not be enough to fill it out so Becky may actually belong in there. Even thinking about Kofi got me wondering if Becky should be seeded higher than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Really? We need to tread over ground that has been covered here repeatedly in the WWE MOTY thread for the last 6 months? I just assumed that going over this, again, was something we didn't need to clog this thread down since both are obvious entrants. Alright, fine then Mr. "I'm going to make a statement to make you write up a multi paragraph write up on something while not actually arguing the other side" For one thing, Sasha/Becky was more technically sound top to bottom then either Sasha Bayley. There were no moments of awkwardness for just about the entire match (which the early goings of both Becky/Sasha matches had a bunch of), and the one people cite (Becky catching Sasha's suicide dive awkwardly) actually furthered the story of the match as Beckys arm not being strong makes sense. It's also, pretty easily, the best straight limb work match the WWE produced this year, with some mean fucking arm work and some big damn spots to build to it all over the place. Becky came in as the one who was going to snap someones arm, and Sasha basically responded to that with "Ha, like you are the only one who can break someones elbow" and it fucking worked masterfully. Furthermore, unlike Sasha's matches with Bayley, there wasn't a "This is the moment when this shit got serious" moment, were the stuff before it was kinda just filler to get to that spot. Bayley/Sasha in Brooklyn didn't REALLY start feeling like a "Oh, this is really good" till Sasha started stomping on Bayleys hand. Everything before that was pretty good, but in the "Not as good as we'd hoped" area. The Ironwoman match suffers a lot from this that it felt like they were killing time during the early stretch to get to the big stuff. Becky/Sasha was constantly building, furthering the story. Becky came in basically as a heel who was kinda sorta faceish by comparison but won everyone over by her drive and how hard she fought and her in ring charisma, and she threw some god damn means suplexes and took a beating. It did basically everything they could have done to keep the match flowing forward. Basically, it's a more complete match then Sasha/Bayleys versions were. There, now give me an argument for why Charlotte/Sasha was even worth mentioning in the same area of Becky/Sasha. And not just "Well that had good fire". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 New Day should be in as a unit. Who cares if it is a weird exception, it fits their gimmick and would create interest. New Day might have a shot at winning it all. None of them individually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I guess I'm saying that I'm nominating New Day, collectively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I would argue "they aren't twin brothers" is a silly objection to nominating New Day as a unit when we had "J. Uso" in. It's not any one person in New Day that makes them so entertaining, it's the group collectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 The only people I feel strongly about are Bayley(who's the clear #1 in WWE imo) Sasha Becky Roman Cena(though I'm not that high on the formula he used most of the year) Owens Balor(I'm not the biggest fan but he had enough good stuff to make it) Jordan and Gable New Day(main roster MVPs) Joe I really really like Asuka and Emma, but they spent a lot of time working squash matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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