NXT 2015 THREAD

[Library Dude]

I probably should have said "skip NXT TV". Owens has fitted in really fast, hence why he's made the main roster so fast. The untelevised stuff is the real developmental.

I don't think it's about how big a name you were previously. People who were accompished in another style will still have to adjust (some people just don't work out like Mistico). And bringing names to NXT who'd appeal to indie fans just fits the direction it has now. In terms of people who are trained pretty much from scratch at the Performance Centre, they only know the WWE style and presumably the role they are being groomed for. Are they gonna make the next Great Khali work for months on NXT before he makes a "shocking" debut against Cena or whoever?

[Just Dave]

I'm a little stumped by the lack of Enzo/Big Cass on this set of tapings. Maybe they're getting ready to be called up. That theme music hitting at Summerslam in Brooklyn in front of the smarkiest crowd of the year would be all the dollar signs....

[Brysynner]

I saw Enzo/Cass are working the WWE house show circuit beating up The Ascension

[Eivion]

Ummm...Who are they? I've never seen them before.

The one on the left is Jessie McKay. Last I saw of her was a few years ago in Shimmer, and she was generally solid and improving. The one on the right is KC Cassidy. I'm sure I have seen a match of hers before NXT, but I can't remember. She was the spinkick happy girl taking on Eva Marie last episode.

[turk128]

I don't think it's about how big a name you were previously. People who were accompished in another style will still have to adjust (some people just don't work out like Mistico). And bringing names to NXT who'd appeal to indie fans just fits the direction it has now. In terms of people who are trained pretty much from scratch at the Performance Centre, they only know the WWE style and presumably the role they are being groomed for. Are they gonna make the next Great Khali work for months on NXT before he makes a "shocking" debut against Cena or whoever?

 

Come to think of it, the Performance Center/NXT was created to prevent another Sin Cara flop; that failure probably played a big part in HHH's long term plans.

 

I daresay NXT would have also prevent the Karma crash from happening too; she wouldn't have been under the load of stress from getting hotshotted onto the main show so when she took her hiatus, her return would have been handled with much less personal complications.

[Greggulator]

I jumped around again and watched Charlotte/Sasha from whatever Takeover they fought.

I say fight because that's the best way to describe the match. Sure, they occasionally tried to pin each other. But the match was those two just throwing stiff strikes and laying each other out. Sasha does a friggin shooting star press after the greatest spear ever done.

You wanna know how good NXT women are? Charlotte looks like the best WWE woman's wrestler ever in this and she has had like two years of experience at this point. She is an athletic freak who knows how and why things work. Her dad at some point sai Charlotte was already better than he ever was. That is a proud papa talking, obviously. But I doubt anyone else -- male, female or alien -- has been this great (GREAT) this quickly.

And even crazier, Sasha has passed her somehow. I mean, WTF?

[Brysynner]

I jumped around again and watched Charlotte/Sasha from whatever Takeover they fought.

I say fight because that's the best way to describe the match. Sure, they occasionally tried to pin each other. But the match was those two just throwing stiff strikes and laying each other out. Sasha does a friggin shooting star press after the greatest spear ever done.

You wanna know how good NXT women are? Charlotte looks like the best WWE woman's wrestler ever in this and she has had like two years of experience at this point. She is an athletic freak who knows how and why things work. Her dad at some point sai Charlotte was already better than he ever was. That is a proud papa talking, obviously. But I doubt anyone else -- male, female or alien -- has been this great (GREAT) this quickly.

And even crazier, Sasha has passed her somehow. I mean, WTF?

 

I still have Charlotte as the #4 behind Sasha, Becky, Bailey. Which is still way higher than anyone else on the WWE roster. Watching Alexa be awesome on the mic I can see us talking about her meteoric rise in a short time as well.

 

Where does Sara Amato getting hired ranked on the list for the most important hire relating non-corporate issues for WWE in the past 10 years? She's gotta be up there considering all the NXT women state how important she was to their careers.

[The Man Known as Dan]

I think Charlotte alright, but I've yet to see a match I thought she was the best person in that got time. I mean the potential is clearly there, and I think she becomes real good, but shes getting out wrestled by Brie Bella in there matches right now.

I will say Sasha brings out the best in her because it makes her wrestle like she should: hate filled technical wrestling with a touch of brawling.

[Greggulator]

I haven't watched Charlotte versus Nattie in a while, but I remember that match being really good. And Nattie against Layla just a few weeks before that was really bad, and it wasn't all because of Layla being rusty. Nattie's usually pretty bad. Charlotte just didn't get a career high-water mark out of someone who messes up basic crap pretty regularly. She got a great match, period.

Sasha's passed Charlotte by now, but Sasha's one of the two or three best workers in the company right now.  Charlotte has a much better body of work than Becky. Becky's awesome, but she was sort of just there until the breakout match against Sasha. I'll take Bayley over Charlotte because she's such an awesome underdog, but Charlotte's athleticism is just absolutely unreal.

[JonnyLaw]

The Nattie-Charlotte match gets dragged down a lot for me by the horrible figure four series, where at one point, Charlotte forgets whether she is supposed to be selling or not.  The figure four and its reversal are a part of the public school curriculum in Charlotte (excuse me, the "Queen City"), so it seemed particularly jarring coming from her.  Like sub-Miz bad.

[Greggulator]

While I agree that the figure-four reversal is something ingrained in any and all residents of the Charlotte metropolitan area from birth, and that spot was bad, this was the best match of Nattie's career by a long walk. And Charlotte has less than two years in the business, so forgetting the mechanics of something like that late in a match (with adrenaline and trying to remember what comes next and TV cues and etc.) isn't an egregious sin on her end at all.

The girl is GREAT.

[The Man Known as Dan]

I haven't watched Charlotte versus Nattie in a while, but I remember that match being really good. And Nattie against Layla just a few weeks before that was really bad, and it wasn't all because of Layla being rusty. Nattie's usually pretty bad. Charlotte just didn't get a career high-water mark out of someone who messes up basic crap pretty regularly. She got a great match, period.

Sasha's passed Charlotte by now, but Sasha's one of the two or three best workers in the company right now.  Charlotte has a much better body of work than Becky. Becky's awesome, but she was sort of just there until the breakout match against Sasha. I'll take Bayley over Charlotte because she's such an awesome underdog, but Charlotte's athleticism is just absolutely unreal.

Yet that match wasn't as good as AJ vs. Natalya from that Febuary, at least IMO. Natalya's entire thing is she is really good when she cares, and really shit when she doesn't, and most of the time she doesn't. If you had worked in the Divas division the last 5+ years, you would probably have issues with it too.

And Charlotte at no point was better then Sasha. She was just put into a position to succeed first.

[JCM]

I want to see what Emma can do in a 10 minute match with one of the NXT 4. I could see going as high as third for Emma in the best women wrestlers in WWE list behind Sasha and Becky. Emma is the only person I've seen do something really good with Paige, and it's not like she's gotten much of a chance since NXT Arrival to have a great match. I could see Bayley giving Sasha a run for her money if she pulls off this current run to the tile like I hope she will.

[Valcourt]

Eva Marie has really weird facials when applying rest/submission holds...

[Greggulator]

Becky's had one truly outstanding match in NXT. That was against Sasha. She hasn't had a chance to follow up on it yet. Before that, she was pretty aimless character wise and didn't do anything really spectacular beyond the Four Way, which everyone else was in.

Not saying she isn't awesome, because she is. But Charlotte's had more high-quality matches then Becky. I think everyone is talking Becky up because of what she did on the indies before she got hurt. (And people are underselling Charlotte since she doesn't have Shimmer on her IMDB.) She's terrific, but she doesn't have the overall body of work of the other three.

I will grant that Becky's match with Sasha is my MOTY so far, however.

[JCM]

 I haven't seen a single non NXT Becky Lynch match, but I have no problem saying she's a better pro wrestler than Charlotte based on what I've seen. Becky has had some pretty great shorter tv matches. The one where she targeted Bayley's injured knee the whole time was a masterpiece, and something I don't think Charlotte is capable of. People were doubting how good Sasha was before her first Takeover singles match, but I had no doubt based on the way she looked in shorter matches.

 

Charlotte has delivered in big matches, but so has every other woman in NXT when given the chance. Saying Charlotte has had more high quality matches than Becky is like saying Cena has more high quality matches than Bryan this year. Of course she does she's had way more opportunities to have great matches. Becky's had two featured matches, and one of them is the best women's match in WWE history.

[odessasteps]

Regal posted a link to this, so might as well post it here

eireplusalba.wordpress.com/sports/wrestling/dean-ambrose/dean-ambrose-feud-with-william-regal-fcw/25-december-2013-the-last-match-of-william-regal/

[Goodear]

Becky took a number of missteps character wise before she connected based off her work in the Sasha Banks match.  I would agree she was always a better mechanic than Charlotte but the character work wasn't there.  This goes beyond the jig dancing and through the second banana period as Sasha's running buddy.  I don't even know if the steampunk stuff is really working or if it is just a byproduct of the one outstanding match.  Charlotte for having certain rough patches in matches, has always presented very clearly as a performer.  I feel more like I know who Charlotte is and that means more than who messed up a figure-four spot.

[Go2Sleep]

Becky's had one truly outstanding match in NXT. That was against Sasha. She hasn't had a chance to follow up on it yet. Before that, she was pretty aimless character wise and didn't do anything really spectacular beyond the Four Way, which everyone else was in.

 

Actually, Becky had a really good match with Bayley last December I think. It was a short match, but it was really smartly built around Becky going for a leg submission and getting closer and closer until Bayley ran out of counters.

 

Becky strikes me as easily the most skilled woman on the roster, but hasn't gotten as many opportunities to shine. 

[SirSmUgly]

I don't think people are underrating Charlotte because she never was in SHIMMER. That's a strange comment, as if folks can't watch this stuff and make what isn't a crazy judgment (Sasha, Becky, and Bayley are better) on their own without considering background. Someone said Brie was putting in better in-ring work than Charlotte; where's Brie's SHIMMER tape? Sasha Banks wasn't exactly lighting it up in the indies before she got to NXT either. 

[Cristobal]

The "NXT fans only like indy darlings/SHIMMER alums" is a talking point that refuses to die no matter how many times it's exposed as complete BS.

[Zheroen]

It's Gregg's default strawman argument whenever someone doesn't gush over a worker like he does.  See earlier this year, when he claimed that no one would have a problem with the Roman Reigns push if he'd come from ROH or NJPW.

[JCM]

 Charlotte for having certain rough patches in matches, has always presented very clearly as a performer.  I feel more like I know who Charlotte is and that means more than who messed up a figure-four spot.

We all know who Charlotte is because her dad is one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. That's her gimmick, and if It wasn't for that I'm not sure her character would have any direction in or out of the ring. No a messed up figure 4 spot isn't a big deal, and it has nothing to do with Becky being a better wrestler than Charlotte.

[The Man Known as Dan]

 (And people are underselling Charlotte since she doesn't have Shimmer on her IMDB.) 

 

 

*sigh* Anytime you pull this line on someone it makes me unsure if you are trolling or just being a giant ass.

 

I had never heard of Sasha Banks before I started watching NXT. She never once wrestled Shimmer. I still have watched a grand total of 0 matches of hers before NXT. I think shes the best wrestler in the WWE not named Cesaro. But yes, Indy Fucking bias.

 

It's not all about match output. It's about what you do in the matches you have. Sasha and Becky are both outstanding at working in just about every match they have. Sasha is miles ahead of just about anyone in working as a character and telling smart stories. Becky is technically great in a way that just about nobody is anymore. Tell her to work an old school "work a body part" match, she will probably give you outstanding results with just about anyone whose worth a darn. 

[Burgundy LaRue]

It's Gregg's default strawman argument whenever someone doesn't gush over a worker like he does.  See earlier this year, when he claimed that no one would have a problem with the Roman Reigns push if he'd come from ROH or NJPW.

 

Not to derail the thread or start an argument--but I've read enough from other sites to think there's something to that.  Not the be all, end all of the conversation, but there's a bit of validity to that belief.