Forbidden Door III - 6/30/2024

[The Natural]

NJPW Dominion spoiler for AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door:

Spoiler

Jon Moxley retained the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship beating EVIL in a lumberjack match. Moxley challenged anyone to face him and Tetsuya Naito answered. Moxley accepted. I think Tetsuya Naito regains at this event. I hate the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship.

 

[EVA]

It would legitimately make no sense for Moxley to win the belt off Naito in America and then lose the belt right back to him in America, with just a couple of very midcard-y defenses in Japan in between. That does nothing to help NJPW in the long run, which is what they desperately need to be thinking about.  It also doesn’t help AEW at all for Mox to lose the only one of the two Naito matches that most AEW fans are likely to see.

Mox has to win this.

That said, doing things that make no sense has become the Gedo way, so…

[Log]

ZSJ/OC?!!?! Yes, please!

[The Natural]

58 minutes ago, Log said:

ZSJ/OC?!!?! Yes, please!

Real styles clash. Zack Sabre Jr vs. Orange Cassidy vs. Katsuyori Shibata vs. Daniel Garcia from Forbidden Door last year was great.

I thought Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr was a possibility here. All In perhaps or Danielson vs. McGuinness.

I was hoping for Bryan Danielson vs. Tetsuya Naito here but that's not happening. I can see Bryan Danielson vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi but Bryan's going to have to carry Tanahashi as he's so shot. I hate saying that as Tanahashi is in my Top Ten GOAT List.

[The Natural]

2 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Real styles clash. Zack Sabre Jr vs. Orange Cassidy vs. Katsuyori Shibata vs. Daniel Garcia from Forbidden Door last year was great.

I thought Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr was a possibility here. All In perhaps or Danielson vs. McGuinness.

I was hoping for Bryan Danielson vs. Tetsuya Naito here but that's not happening. I can see Bryan Danielson vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi but Bryan's going to have to carry Tanahashi as he's so shot. I hate saying that as Tanahashi is in my Top Ten GOAT List.

10. Terry Funk.

9. Rey Mysterio Jr.

8. Eddie Guerrero.

7. Ricky Steamboat.

6. Mitsuharu Misawa.

5. Hiroshi Tanahashi.

4. Kazuchika Okada.

3. Kenta Kobashi.

2. Bret Hart.

1. Bryan Danielson.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

23 minutes ago, The Natural said:

10. Terry Funk.

9. Rey Mysterio Jr.

8. Eddie Guerrero.

7. Ricky Steamboat.

6. Mitsuharu Misawa.

5. Hiroshi Tanahashi.

4. Kazuchika Okada.

3. Kenta Kobashi.

2. Bret Hart.

1. Bryan Danielson.

I’ll get blasted for my top ten I’m sure. I’ll go 1-10 as it’s just easier for me to format it too:

1) Kurt Angle

2) Ric Flair

3) CM Punk (thus why I’ll get blasted)

4) Shawn Michaels

5) Macho Man Randy Savage

6) AJ Styles 

7) Will Ospreay 

8 Steve Austin (since to rank him I want to include his WCW run and not just Stone Cold)

9) Jeff Jarrett (another reason this will get blasted)

10) The Young Bucks

I’d definitely put Rey Jr, Okada, and Steamboat right below that. Plus Kenny Omega and Danielson 

[The Natural]

Just now, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

I’ll get blasted for my top ten I’m sure. I’ll go 1-10 as it’s just easier for me to format it too:

1) Kurt Angle

2) Ric Flair

3) CM Punk (thus why I’ll get blasted)

4) Shawn Michaels

5) Macho Man Randy Savage

6) AJ Styles 

7) Will Ospreay 

8 Steve Austin (since to rank him I want to include his WCW run and not just Stone Cold)

9) Jeff Jarrett (another reason this will get blasted)

10) The Young Bucks

I’d definitely put Rey Jr, Okada, and Steamboat right below that. Plus Kenny Omega and Danielson 

I won't blast you. We've a right to our opinions, where we agree and disagree on.

[Matt D]

9 minutes ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

I’ll get blasted for my top ten I’m sure. I’ll go 1-10 as it’s just easier for me to format it too:

1) Kurt Angle

2) Ric Flair

3) CM Punk (thus why I’ll get blasted)

4) Shawn Michaels

5) Macho Man Randy Savage

6) AJ Styles 

7) Will Ospreay 

8 Steve Austin (since to rank him I want to include his WCW run and not just Stone Cold)

9) Jeff Jarrett (another reason this will get blasted)

10) The Young Bucks

I’d definitely put Rey Jr, Okada, and Steamboat right below that. Plus Kenny Omega and Danielson 

Uh, pal, you're much more likely to get blasted around here for Ospreay, Bucks, and Angle than for Punk and Jarrett. Not that you'll get blasted at all, but I mean, look where you are.

If I put up a poll between Jarrett and Angle right now, it'd probably be 65 - 35 Jarrett over Angle.

[just drew]

This "top ten" question always confuzzles me. Like, is it the ten guys I think are the legitimate best ten of all time, or the ten I most enjoy watching? Because those lists would be very different. My ten favorite;

1. Mick Foley

2. Eddie Guerrero

3. Owen Hart

4. Jon Moxley

5. Daniel Bryan

6. The Steiner Brothers (I can't separate them in my mind)

7. Ron Simmons

8. Kurt Angle

9. The New Age Outlaws (I like dudes who talk shit)

10. Sean Waltman (as the 123 Kid he had me hook, line, and, sinker, and as XPac I thought he was the best smarmy little shit ever)

 

Honorable Mention; Arn Anderson, Jeff Jarrett, AJ Styles, Bam Bam Bigelow, Malakai Black and Dustin Rhodes.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Just Dave

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

1.  Vader

2-ထ. Vader's victims

[Kevin Wilson]

1 hour ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

1.  Vader

2-ထ. Vader's victims

I was about to say, any list without Vader is automatically a bad list and we should ban said person from ever making lists again until they apologize.

[Casey]

9 hours ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

3) CM Punk (thus why I’ll get blasted)

The absolute brain rot online the past few years regarding Punk is crazy. I’m incredibly biased, but I think he absolutely has a place on lists like this. It’s all obviously just opinions, but still.

[Octopus]

I started typing a list and shamefully deleted it twice 

[Matt D]

If I had to do GWE today, my top ten would be:

1. Bockwinkel

2. Casas

3. Tenryu

4. Funk

5. Rose

6. Satanico

7. Fujiwara

8. Andre

9. Breaks

10. Lawler 

Favorites would be different. 

[Octopus]

If my main man @Matt D can be brave enough to derp it out I’ll ramble it. (Btw, WOAH Tenryu raised for you!!! If I recall, Fujiwara too!)!!!!!

Going off the dome. I was doing GWE and making notes but switched over to my personal GME. So I need to derp out a more solid wrestler list. But here goes: (not checking notes. Going by heart 4 beers in , started adding olives to the beers) 

1. Bryan Danielson

2. Terry Funk

3. Negro Casas

4. Kenta Kobashi

5. Mitsuhara Misawa

6. El Satanico

7. Nick Bockwinkel 

8. Andre the Giant

9. Akira Hokuto (will likely be higher for me but I need to see more)

10. El Hijo Del Santo

 

hmmmmmm. I’ll post this

[Ace]

13 hours ago, The Natural said:

Real styles clash. Zack Sabre Jr vs. Orange Cassidy vs. Katsuyori Shibata vs. Daniel Garcia from Forbidden Door last year was great.

I thought Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr was a possibility here. All In perhaps or Danielson vs. McGuinness.

I was hoping for Bryan Danielson vs. Tetsuya Naito here but that's not happening. I can see Bryan Danielson vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi but Bryan's going to have to carry Tanahashi as he's so shot. I hate saying that as Tanahashi is in my Top Ten GOAT List.

Both Danielson and ZSJ wanted to do the rematch in England. Not necessarily for AEW.

[Casey]

I don’t think I could do a GWE list, because I haven't seen enough stuff to really formulate an opinion like that. I started to try and make a list, but it skews pretty heavily towards late 80s/mid to late 90s and Japanese (Toyota, Nakano, Kawada, Mutoh). With Savage and Punk making the list because I also consider them complete packages.

I’d probably be better off doing region and area specific GWE lists honestly.

[Kevin Wilson]

5 hours ago, Casey said:

I don’t think I could do a GWE list, because I haven't seen enough stuff to really formulate an opinion like that. I started to try and make a list, but it skews pretty heavily towards late 80s/mid to late 90s and Japanese (Toyota, Nakano, Kawada, Mutoh). With Savage and Punk making the list because I also consider them complete packages.

I’d probably be better off doing region and area specific GWE lists honestly.

While I may not agree on your Punk take, I do think that GWE lists that aren't "comprehensive" are still valid. I mean if you wanted to cover for yourself you can say "modern" or post-territory era or focus on a region but I think fans can make a list even if they haven't seen a lot of Lou Thesz and Bockwinkel. We don't want to be snobby like some other boards were in the 2000s, I may tease people for leaving off Vader (FAKE LISTS!!!) but the fun thing about wrestling is how incredibly subjective it is.

At least until an admin comes in and fusses at us for doing GWE lists in a AEW PPV thread but that's another story.

[Matt D]

It's a lifelong project. You focus on the areas you have expertise in. I'm ten years away from being able to confidently rank Dump Matsumoto or Yoshihiro Takayama or Shinya Hashimoto. I'm sure they should be on my list. They maybe even should be in the top ten. I'm not ready yet. So even thought I can't entirely cover 90s puro or shootstyle or joshi, I feel good about 70s-80s Japanese males, WoS, US Territories, French Catch, lucha for the most part, Puerto Rico, Panama, and my top (or in some cases twenty) ten covers all of that. 
. 

[The Natural]

I always struggle with best/favourites differentiation. My favourites would be a blend of the two lists:

10. Mr. Brodie Lee/Luke Harper.

9. The Undertaker.

8. Hiroshi Tanahashi.

7. Claudio Castagnoli.

6. Samoa Joe.

5. Mick Foley.

4. Kazuchika Okada.

3. Kenta Kobashi.

2. Bret Hart.

1. Bryan Danielson.

[Curt McGirt]

I see another thread for this in my crystal ball

[SturmCRF]

1. Bret Hart

2. Bryan Danielson

3. Will Ospreay

4. Mick Foley

5. Tomohiro Ishii

6. Masato Tanaka

7. Sasha Banks

8. Shinsuke Nakamura

9. Kenny Omega

10. CM Punk

 

This is what I came up with for an off the top of my head favourites list. Despite seemingly spending half my life watching wrestling for over 30 years, I just haven't seen enough outside of WWE, ECW, 2010 onwards NJPW and AEW to honestly rank a Kobashi or a Bockwinkel or even a Vader (WWF brainwashing steered me clear from almost all WCW while it was current). I wish I made more/any time for historical viewing, but I'm too focused on keeping up with current stuff, so it's only ever going to be the occasional match. Kota Ibushi and Shingo Takagi not being on the list feels wrong, but Kenny and his mate CM just edge it today.

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

It's a lifelong project. You focus on the areas you have expertise in. I'm ten years away from being able to confidently rank Dump Matsumoto or Yoshihiro Takayama or Shinya Hashimoto. I'm sure they should be on my list. They maybe even should be in the top ten. I'm not ready yet. So even thought I can't entirely cover 90s puro or shootstyle or joshi, I feel good about 70s-80s Japanese males, WoS, US Territories, French Catch, lucha for the most part, Puerto Rico, Panama, and my top (or in some cases twenty) ten covers all of that. 
. 

Getting older also means seeing the futility (and some cases stupidity) of list making.

[Ace]

Faves In no order:

Funk, Flair, Kawada, Muto, Danielson, Savage, Nakamura, Okada, Sasaki, Shirakawa

[southofheavy]

I've been hard pressed to name my favorite wrestler ever for a LONG time.  I'm a lot more confident now that it's probably Bryan Danielson. Thing is, I've seen so much of him that I rarely reach for his older matches because there's other wrestlers I want and need to watch. It made me think at one point that I was sick of him. But, there is no one I get more excited about when a new match is announced and there really isn't any other wrestler alive right now that I wanna see against anyone besides Hechicero. I mean, fuck, he made me get excited about a Satnam Singh match. I watched a bitchin' fancam of that on YouTube the other day.

So, favorites RN:

1. Bryan Danielson
2. Bull Nakano
3. Jaguar Yokota
4. Hechicero
5. Eddie Kingston
6. Rhea Ripley
7. Jamie Hayter (COME BACK, GOD DAMN IT, I MISS YOU)
8. Darby Allin
9. The Briscoes
10. Prime Shinjiro Ohtani (I don't have access to any of this besides what's on the Network and it's fuckin' driving me NUTS.)

As for a Top Ten all time greatest list, I need to eat first. 
 

Edited June 10, 2024 by southofheavy