Survivor Series XXXVII : WarGames - 11/25/2023

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

Watched this on a whim, lazy Saturday post Thanksgiving nothing better to do.  This was the first WWE show I've watched since WM.  Didn't watch it live but I stayed off the internet.  Wasn't expecting Punk to show up in the slightest.  I was so caught off guard after a night of annoying 'CM Punk' chants in several matches and peppered throughout the main that I didn't even have a reaction to it other than, "huh, I guess this is happening"  Was curious if it got leaked before/during the show but after reading this thread I guess it didn't.

Personally I don't watch WWE outside of the occasional big show and I'm not a Punk fan so this doesn't really affect me, I'll just grab some popcorn.  Can't think of any matches I'd want to see him in, I was over Punk in AEW.  It does make AEW look real bad to casual fans when they sign a bunch of "castoffs" and old guys and the superstar aura main eventers like Cody, Punk and possibly Jade are the ones leaving to go to WWE, perception wise.

Thought the show was average, but I did some fast forwarding during video packages and the Miz match that made it easier to watch.  I didn't think the Wargames matches were particularly good or bad, just kind of there.  You don't want to take your eye off them because lots of stuff happens, yet they were both kind of boring.  Thought Santos and Dragon Lee would be better given what a big spot it was for them.  I liked Gunther beating Miz with a Liontamer after the announcers pointed out Miz was attempting to tie Jericho with his 9th IC title win.

The moronic fans chanting for tables incessantly was annoying the shit out of me.  I loved Sabu but I'm starting to think he left a horrible legacy on the business by popularizing the table spot.  It's not even cool anymore and hasn't been in decades!!!  Don't get why fans do it, and why of all things tables are what they want to see.  At least in AEW last week they were chanting for FIRE!!!

[Leonidas]

WWE Subfolder.... He's your problem now .

[The Natural]

F4wonline.com:

When a reporter asked who pushed for Punk’s return to the company, Triple H said that the only people who knew about Punk’s return was himself and WWE president Nick Khan.

[matwarz]

It legitimately pains me to pay attention to anything happening in WWE. I don’t like the taste or smell of it, just not my pro-wrestling.

But, I love CM Punk. Who else creates this or makes these moments?

That said, I’ve always admired his honesty and convictions. Time, growth and working in chaos will change a person, plus he always did want that wrestlemania main event to rubber stamp the career. Still, I do smell a smidge of hypocrisy. 

He’s got a king-sized promo to cut Monday night. 

[TheVileOne]

That’s a little misleading. He said a few people past them knew, and clearly people had to know for the entrance video, the t-shirt release, securing the rights for Cult of Personality, etc.

[Cleavy]

6 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Just wait until we get the Sasha Banks return out of nowhere at the Rumble or something.

it wouldn't surprise me for her to team with Bayley vs Asuka/Kairi at WM.

[Casey]

36 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

That’s a little misleading. He said a few people past them knew, and clearly people had to know for the entrance video, the t-shirt release, securing the rights for Cult of Personality, etc.

Which I'm pretty sure is, oddly enough, the re-recorded version of the song from like 2007.

[Ziggy]

Had a family get together at my sister's house and completely forgot about Survivor Series until I saw posts about some things on social media afterwards. I've watched all the way to the Dragon Lee vs Escobar. Lee was a better fit to face Escobar than Carlito was workrate wise even though the story was built for him to face Carlito had he not got hurt. Gunther is just something special man. It's still beyond me that Vince didn't see anything in him and honestly even if he didn't I doubt he would have this type of long run of dominance he's having. That match vs Miz was fun. It had me atleast once thinking he was going to beat Gunther which was cool in the moment. After the Hangman vs Swerve last week I think it reminded us all that WWEs Gimmick matches are a different type of violence compared to AEW. The WWE modern style of Gimmick matches are built around artistically creative looking spots and not mean to be violent offense. Everything looked cool the women did out there and I'm sure alot of those spots most of them got banged up or hurt to some degree. The War Games match was cool for what it was but he all know never to expect a JCP style War Games or any type of cage match from Titan Sports in this modern era. I'm up now so I think I'll watch the rest of the show now 

[Thunder Down Under]

44 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

That’s a little misleading. He said a few people past them knew, and clearly people had to know for the entrance video, the t-shirt release, securing the rights for Cult of Personality, etc.

Yeah altho the idea that he made sure things like his music/tron package were all cued up and ready to go on his own does make me laugh.

[For Great Justice]

I’d use Punk as a vehicle to put Logan Paul over at Mania

Thats about how much time you have before he implodes again 

[Steventon]

Thought all the matches were pretty blah as expected. War Games has become another stale WWE trope I am over, you can skip 90% of them and not feel like you've missed anything significant.

The Iyo dive was nutty and the best spot on the show. Bayley protecting her teammate only to lose the match straight after felt dumb and like a big plot hole. I mean sure I get the storyline there that that cost her the match, but if Kairi was getting to get feet when Bayley shoved her out the way, why wasn't Kairi able to then interrupt the 3 finishers and pin following? She was literally on her feet beforehand. Just went back to laying on the floor and selling for 5 minutes, I try to avoid the term 'business exposing' but that was jarring.

All 3 singles matches having heels win clean was certainly a choice. Miz vs Gunther was good without being great, pretty mid-tier Gunther match at this point. Miz stepped up but he just isn't a physical enough, charismatic enough or smart enough worker for this to stand out. Escobar vs Lee was a solid spotfest if mindless. 

Orton's return was awesome. Great to see him back after such a long break, he brought the most energy out of anyone on this show, looked like he was having a blast, hit one or two big spots, and put Cody over at the end. The perfect role for him at this stage of his career and that would have been more than fine as the end to the PPV.

Punk returning - I am a Punk fan so let's see. Punk is clearly a guy who loves wrestling but hates the wrestling industry and I wouldn't not be surprised to see this implode very quickly. Him returning when the faces were standing tall suggest he's feuding with one of them, so maybe this is him vs Rollins, which I personally have 0 interest in but will be amusing to see how quickly it ends in tears.

[hammerva]

I give it about 8 months with Punk WWE 2.0 but it is going to be an insane and interesting ride

Underrated part of Punk debut is Orton in the background.  He was in complete "the camera is off fuck it let's have fun" mode

Edited November 26, 2023 by hammerva

[The Natural]

CM Punk's return made the BBC. British Broadcasting Corporation, you vulgar fucks ;).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-67536339

Edited November 26, 2023 by The Natural

[Sex Machine Gun]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet: Has WWE started... *trying* with their PPV sets again?

[Godfrey]

Thoughts as I watched live

First War Games was repetitive and a bit of a mess. Eivion was right, this angle did not warrant the stipulation and would have been much better as a an elimination tag anyway. Everything around Iyo's trash can dive was ridiculous. They were throwing some reckless shit out there and it looked like Bayley got spiked by Bianca at the end, maybe that was just the angle. Shotzi took one for the team too, damn

Oh no, a Raw segment

Oh yeah, Miz/Gunther was some good stuff. Looked like Miz laid it in a little

Escobar has his "shocked because his opponent kicked out" face down, the WWE classics are alive

I'm not sure who Ripley was cosplaying, not a fan of that in any company

Thoughts as I watched the next morning (spoiler free)

Second War Games was better but not by much tbh. If I never see another kendo stick again I'll die happy. I got hit by a shinai in high school and sure it stung but not enough for 30 years as a wrestling trope, come on. The cash in was a great fake out. Orton's return was well done and the match picked up when he got in, Michael Cole said 'Vintage War Games' and I laughed. Surprised how clean the faces won but Judgement Day are ultimately the dorkiest heel group and don't need to be protected

Gonna read everyone's comments while I digest Punk's return but I can't help it, I'm excited

[Casey]

Rhea’s outfit was a homage to Sherri Martel, wasn’t it?

[For Great Justice]

I think these returns have changed Punk’s legacy as a promo, to the mass audience, from “guy that says shooty stuff because it’s what he authentically believes“ to “guy that says shooty stuff because he knows the marks will react to it.”

I mean he’s a pro wrestler so that’s always been the case of course, but we’re basically in “hide your wives, it’s Edge” territory at this point.

Edited November 26, 2023 by For Great Justice

[Godfrey]

10 minutes ago, Casey said:

Rhea’s outfit was a homage to Sherri Martel, wasn’t it?

Oh yeah, that makes sense. It's just personal preference, I like it when wrestlers are themselves

[hammerva]

Well Punk already had his "hide your wives" phase.  This will be his "let's see how it takes for him to get offended" phase

[Octopus]

This is a win for Octopus. A potential of great matches and hot goss?!  

[Ziggy]

I finished the show an it was a short PLE considering its a big 4, I expect to go at least 3 hours . They seemed to like Stark from the jump based on putting her with Trish in the beginning of her run on the main roster it's no surprise she got a title shot on PPV already but nobody believed she had a chance. She's got a nice moveset but it's almost a Babyface moveset with the Flashy moves she does. Against Rhea you forget She's a power wrestler.

The men's War Games was ok. McDonough is the new Dolph in terms of bumping. I liked Jey using the chair from the audience instead of under the ring like everyone else. I didn't know they used the Bloodline (Solo) costing the title Drew at CaTC as a basis of his heel turn as well as Jey and his brother being reason Orton was out. I also loved Orton allowing Cody to take the pin. It's amazing that Jey and Cody are both insanely over without the company having to force it. Orton was insanely over too and I know it's not just because he's returned.

I believe Hunter when he said Punk coming back wasn't something that was a done deal till recently because he just showed up at the end which was perfect and it gives a reason for us to tune in to Raw or Smackdown to see if the have him do something then. It's sort of a weird time to see what they do with him around Rumble season because I don't see him winning the Rumble and I don't think he should even be in the Rumble unless he went all the way. They should just book him like he was in AEW and just let him have dream matches with guys he just wants to face on some of the PLEs and weekly TVs he appears on. Have him face Rollins at Rumble or someone. I think he'll last longer in WWE than his entire AEW run because he won't be burned out by the schedule and unless he is coming in with the intention of being the top guy, I doubt he be much of a problem politically. I'm sure he has guys and girls he has interest in helping.

[ChrisPBacon]

And let us not forget, CM Punk is your "Real" Worlds Champion.  Only person I can vision as his Bobby Heenan is Paul Heyman and he is taken.  Punk coming out with a black bag with an obvious belt in it, would get a buzz pop for sure.

[Greggulator]

4 hours ago, The Natural said:

F4wonline.com:

When a reporter asked who pushed for Punk’s return to the company, Triple H said that the only people who knew about Punk’s return was himself and WWE president Nick Khan.

Glad to know HHH and Nick Khan also do t-shirt and web design.

[Just Dave]

After getting some sleep & sobering up, the layers to this cm punk return are massive and fascinating. It doesn’t look like any of wwe’s talent were smartened up, and while I think Seth was working at the end of the broadcast, there’s a lot of bad blood to be worked through. I know Cody has said several times that he didn’t leave AEW over cm punk, but Cody’s also the guy who told the “locker room leader” story to a room full of wrestling fans. I don’t think there’s any love lost between those two guys. WWE is clearly a different animal than AEW, in that they have the corporate structure necessary to insulate themselves from the trouble punk is gonna bring eventually. There’s no downside for the Fed, other than annoying their top guys. 

[JohnnyJ]

It does feel too soon after what right or wrong he put diehard fans through over the last 2 years. I felt like once it became clear that he could still go at a high level it was only a matter of time before WWE cane calling. In my opinion, WWE should have left well enough alone. They’re doing great right now and he’s clearly not well.