Collision - 6/17/2023

[SirFozzie]

41 minutes ago, Gorman said:

Looking back, I think it was the Philly Street Fight vs. Da Hit Squad at the first Glory By Honor.

I had never seen really old school ROH (I was following WCW/WWE, and a bit of NWA-TNA before the pay per view model meant I missed out, but I just found a review of the match, and yeah, it sounds like a Last Fan Standing match (it was a Philly Street Fight, as you said)

(From https://www.blogofdoom.com/2020/06/23/mike-reviews-roh-glory-by-honour-05-10-2002/ ) for folks like me, who werent big on independent wrestling.

This is payback for The Crew laying out Hit Squad at the Unscripted show to take them out of the Tag Title Tournament. This one is a crazy weapons filled brawl, with Mack diving out onto everyone to destroy the front row. This is a good choice to follow the previous match actually, they’ve done a reasonable job spacing out the match types here, although the number of matches itself is probably too high.

This one is full of sickening unprotected chair shots, and it’s not long until they are tearing most of the arena apart. Surprisingly they don’t go heavy on the blood, which is an almost refreshing show of restraint on their part. DeVito gets put on a table and Maff tries to power bomb him through it, but Loc manages to slip out and DeVito hits Mack with a chair, followed by a piledriver through the table on Maff to give DeVito the pin.

[username]

So I would legit be fascinated to see any kind of internal AEW memo or whatnot that gave an indication what their vision for Wardlow or the TNT actually is as... I can't even picture what it could be that would match up with what they've done with them for the past year or so.

 

I was so sad when I saw that Hobbs still had QT with him, I was hopeful the new show would offer him a fresh start from what has clearly not been working in the least.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

57 minutes ago, username said:

So I would legit be fascinated to see any kind of internal AEW memo or whatnot that gave an indication what their vision for Wardlow or the TNT actually is as... I can't even picture what it could be that would match up with what they've done with them for the past year or so.

 

I was so sad when I saw that Hobbs still had QT with him, I was hopeful the new show would offer him a fresh start from what has clearly not been working in the least.

I'm with you on both points - the booking of Wardlow is mind boggling. To the point where pretty damn soon I'm gonna be breaking out my 'political hit ' tinfoil hat

[porksweats]

15 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I'm with you on both points - the booking of Wardlow is mind boggling. To the point where pretty damn soon I'm gonna be breaking out my 'political hit ' tinfoil hat

They had Wardlow lose it so he can win it again. Become the first 4 time champ.

[Go2Sleep]

Dug the show minus Luchasaurus winning the TNT title. He's already been a tag champ, he doesn't need the career accomplishment and Wardlow should be a big part of their future plans. Overall, it was just another Dynamite, but AEW has the roster depth to pull that off. Buddy and Andrade put on a show. Both guys using their SO's submissions was cute.

Punk did what he was supposed to do. He can fire up a crowd like no other with a promo, even if it's pretty routine by his standards. Given that they didn't actually show what was in the bag, I'll be a little disappointed if it's actually the old AEW title. I'm not sure what it should be, but there is serious creative potential there. Treat it like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. If it is actually just the title, they almost have to be thinking double turn with MJF down the road. Punk was obviously leaning way into the Bret tribute act, and I could see him really wanting to do a WM 13 style match for his legacy.

[TheVileOne]

Overall, I thought it was a good show for the most part. It flowed really well. I think Kevin Kelly and Nigel McGuinness were both on point and gelled very well on commentary. The commentary didn't feel distracted or overburdened by having a three-man booth. Excalibur tends to sound nervous and rushed. Also, they can't decide between Excalibur and Tony who should be the main play-by-play guy. Nigel and Kelly seemed to know how to time all their comments, even during a live broadcast.

The crowd was at least hot and dialed in for the whole show, even though the attendance was significantly lower than The First Dance. I think my only problem with Punk's promo and the main event, it didn't really lead to anything. Nothing from KENTA. Had KENTA made an appearance and attacked Punk at the end, that would've been perfect. No MJF, when Punk is basically saying he's still the true champion and holding the true title, basically calling out MJF. Also, IMHO it's stupid if you're going to have Punk make comments, even worked-shoot comments regarding the Superbills if he's never going to face them. I maintain Punk's return is pointless if he's never going to step in the ring with The Elite or Hangman Page ever again.

I'm fine with Luchasaurus winning the title and seeing where they go with it. But I think they need to give the title some stability for a little bit and let Luchasaurus be this unbeatable monster for a while. I think that's what they needed to do with Hobbs instead of hot-potato-ing the belt to him and then right back to Wardlow when you could've built up a blowoff matchup with Ricky Starks or someone else winning the title.

Andrade El Idolo had a good showing in his first match back. Andrade clearly struggled in his earlier run, and AEW didn't really know what to do with him. They saddled him with new managers every week, and then they put him in that garbage Hardy Family Office storyline that went absolutely nowhere and didn't help anybody. Also, that awful match with Poochie Rhodes setting himself on fire. Andrade won here, and had a hot win with a hot crowd, but where does he go from here? I guess we'll see. Buddy Matthews is so underrated in the ring in making his opponents look like a million bucks when he puts them over.  

[Ingobernable]

1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Also, IMHO it's stupid if you're going to have Punk make comments, even worked-shoot comments regarding the Superbills if he's never going to face them. I maintain Punk's return is pointless if he's never going to step in the ring with The Elite or Hangman Page ever again.

I couldn't agree with this more - it's sort of redundant now to continue discussions about whether bringing Punk back was right or wrong but I agree that you only bring him back if everyone's found a way to do business. If they haven't got plans for a match and you've brought him back anyway then you certainly can't have anyone on either side reference the other. I'm going to be generous for now and imagine that they've got plans because the alternative makes my brain numb after that promo. 

And to be clear, if/when that match happens I'll eat it up like I'm a child again. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Ingobernable
To add a positive afterthought

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Nigel and Kelly seemed to know how to time all their comments, even during a live broadcast.

You should have heard the international feed.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I've got to be a little more pessimistic about the idea of Punk/any of the Elite working together, based purely on the logic that if they were willing, Collision likely wouldn't even be happening (or would be a 1-hour replacement for Dark). The ESPN interview last week with Punk seemed to make it pretty clear there's no contact there (right or wrong).

[Octopus]

If we get 8-months of good Punk television and matches, I’m happy. If we get a new fallout or Punk injury, I’m sad. 

I’m in the boring camp of liking (at least what we’ve seen) of both commentary teams. We’ll get good days and bad days, but I think they fit the product they’re presenting.

[Ingobernable]

17 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I've got to be a little more pessimistic about the idea of Punk/any of the Elite working together, based purely on the logic that if they were willing, Collision likely wouldn't even be happening (or would be a 1-hour replacement for Dark). The ESPN interview last week with Punk seemed to make it pretty clear there's no contact there (right or wrong).

I think this is realistic too, to be fair. My optimism might be a little bit forced but even if we get eight months of good matches from Punk (as Octopus says), I'm going to be so annoyed if there are snide comments from each side that aren't designed to lead anywhere, and I don't want to watch wrestling to get annoyed. 

[EVA]

Sorry if I sound like a broken record again, because I feel like I post this every time the TNT title changes hands lately, but I have zero problem with a title moving around a bunch and I completely disagree with the idea that long title reigns or “stability” is inherently better for a title’s credibility or prestige.

We wanted a hoss title for years, and now we finally got it. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tony is taking real life inspiration from UFC. Check out the title history of the UFC heavyweight title. It’s pretty rare for those champs to successfully defend the belt more than 1 or 2 times. Why? Because when big meaty men are dropping bombs on each other, everybody gets caught sooner rather than later.

I’m totally here for a month or so of Christian acting like he’s the champ before Luchasaurus gets caught by the next hoss.

Wardlow’s problem is Wardlow. Credit to him, he’s actually worked to pick up his intensity following the infamous cellphone promo after his title belt was stolen, when he looked more annoyed to have to be cutting a promo than bothered by the belt being taken. But, like Matt said, he’s got to improve his selling and comebacks. The crowd at Collision clearly WANTED to be into him, so it’s not like he’s a lost cause; he just has to do a better job of giving them reasons to care about his matches beyond the powerbombs.

[Craig H]

Another one of my issues with Wardlow is his look. The longer hair looked better on him. Now he just looks like a dude. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Pictured below: just a dude.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Gordlow

[Wyld Samurai]

2 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

Pictured below: just a dude.

Legit could be any NXT CAW.

[porksweats]

4 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

Pictured below: just a dude.

Gord, I know you're being sarcastic with the Just A Dude, but the thing is, that's just a dude.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

6 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Legit could be any NXT CAW.

Looking forward to him being Tyson Bryson in NXT next year.

[Craig H]

18 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

Pictured below: just a dude.

Wow. You really got me.

You know man, I don't have a problem with you. Never have. However lately your attitude sucks. You create these naval gazing threads so people can try to be more open minded and what not. Maybe take your own advice and try and not be a snarky dick.

Sorry, but your picture is any milquetoast body guy in wrestling. He is the definition of a JAG. Good body, bigish guy, and that's where it stops. His face and hair remind me of when Dolph Ziggler cut his hair and dyed it dark brown. 

Also, storyline wise, his hair was so important to him, but he hasn't bothered growing it back out again after Joe cut it off?

[StuntmanCrowley]

I feel like they've been trying to recapture the momentum for Wardlow that he lost the second he beat MJF and no one gave a shit, they were too concerned about MJF taking his ball and going home.  Credit to MJF for doing business the right way with Wardlow, but that whole thing overshadowed what was supposed to be War Dog's moment and it's been an uphill battle ever since.

Wardlow's promos haven't helped him at all though.

 

I do agree that if we're doing long(er) runs with the World and International titles, I don't mind a title that has a bit more "uncertainty" around it.  But calling ti a hoss title means less than nothing if we don't get Brody King with the belt for 2 months choking people out on the ring apron.

[peterien]

I’m a massive Punk fan but I cringed my way through his whole promo. “Tell me when I’m tellin’ lies” grow the fuck up dude you are 44 years of age. 

[Octopus]

The Wacky Plight of Wardlow 

Wardlow was fairly protected and made to look like a big deal when he was partnered with Max. He would dominate matches he was in and his losses felt like a big often circumstantial deal. He lost to Cody from a moonsault of the top of the cage and he had CM Punk (I believe?) beat until MJF made him continue his onslaught instead of winning.

In promo segments he would be quiet and working for Max, however he still would be presented to be smart, stoic, suave, and most importantly important. 

After his big moment was dampened by AirplaneGate, he hasn’t felt the same. I think it is half on AEW booking and half on him as a performer. I agree that the goal of a TV-esque title is to bop around, making the reigns that last months feel special but could be changed in any match still. I don’t have a problem with him losing, but it’s safe to say he doesn’t really feel special anymore. The protection and safety net is off and he’s asked to be able to do more. We’ll see him either fold into the flow of things or improve as a performer and a character.

He could have been protected more and even treated like a main event threat, but maybe this is better in the long run than an Elite Batista. But who knows, Powerbomb Symphony could have made a lot of money? Or we’d get people asking for more? 

Regardless, I care less about the TNT Title now then the International one. That’s the power of the right performer and right booking.

[Log]

There's a history in wrestling of it being hard to book a lackey when they break away from their shitty boss. Virgil, Damien Sandow and Wardlow (I'm sure I'm forgetting someone else) all had big responses when they finally had enough, but then the real work begins.

For me, I just don't see it with Wardlow. He's a big, good-looking guy, but he just doesn't do anything for me when he talks. Maybe they should've kept him the big, silent killer? I think he just sounds to "normal" in his promos.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

6 minutes ago, Log said:

Maybe they should've kept him the big, silent killer?

100% the case, IMO - I was just saying this in the Rampage thread last week, but I do not understand the insistence on having him talk, especially with Arn there. It's absolutely killing any 'mystique' he's got left. Octopus hit the nail on the head - we ascribed all these different things to his character when he was MJF's bodyguard because he hadnt yet spoken and shown us evidence to the contrary. iMHO, he ought to *still* be showing those things, standing silently and menacingly, doing the heavy breathing, neck crack/rolls, and wrist tape, while Arn promises the end of days is here and its Glock o'clock or whatever 

[Coletti]

I think it's pretty well understood that everybody looks at Wardlow as a problem with creative and not the man himself. Dude clearly has a lot going for him but trying to make sense of his booking is a fool's errand. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

I think it's pretty well understood that everybody looks at Wardlow as a problem with creative and not the man himself. Dude clearly has a lot going for him but trying to make sense of his booking is a fool's errand. 

I said it yesterday jokingly but I'm like two Wardlow losses away from putting my 'political hit' tinfoil hat on