Elimination Chamber XIII - 2/18/2023

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm someone who absolutely adores Rick Rude hitting a move and then taunting the crowd, swiveling his hips, etc on repeat or Stevie Ray hitting one move and then walking around shit talking the crowd.. so yeah... 

What Roman has been doing is right up my alley and i would go as far to say that he NEEDS to stall and talk shit and just be a complete prick during these matches with Sami and Cody because The Bloodline was getting to be too cool.. there were a million 1's up in the air at these shows and that is not great long term, we saw how nWo fell into the trap after a while of no clear separation between the face and heel dynamics of all the characters.

In order for Roman to get the "Fuck You Roman!" Chants and engage the crowds with the babyface, he needs to be that bastard.

[John from Cincinnati]

There's taunting and then there's borderline reciting prepared lines. This stance isn't anti-taunt or shit-talk. We all appreciate that when Mark Henry charges for air, you keep your bill paid. It's wrestling, Ric Flair getting heated and going off on a "fat boy" in the crowd or MJF taunting "the poors" is part of the sauce. There's a distinction between that and what this was, or what I remember the Roman-Jey matches being. People praised those two also, but it's definitely a case of laying stuff on VERY thick in a very scripted and almost rehearsed manner. I don't remember WWE in-ring storytelling always being this heavy-handed, even when it was being heavy-handed. 

[dorfus malorfus]

Baba insisted that Kawada couldn't beat Misawa until they could do it at the Tokyo Dome and so the greatest story ever told ended with a *** match in 1998 instead of an absolute barn burner in 95 when both guys were at the top of their game. Sometimes you just don't wanna fuck around with this stuff for too many years or insist that a thing can only be pulled off properly if it happens at Mania. 

 

[DMJ]

Just to chime in on the Cody/Triple H "beef" stemming from Cody "targeting" him by destroying the throne.

Triple H had to have loved that shit. When your ego is the size of his and your mentor is Vince McMahon himself, the fact that the other company is taking shots at you and not at Cena or Roman or Vince means that you are the guy that is symbolically "The 'Fed."

Cody Rhodes could've come out and mocked the Undertaker. He could've come out and done the "Vince walk." He could've done any number of things to point out that the WWE was still all about nostalgia and main eventers from 15 years ago and part-timers and that AEW was all about the future. 

But he used symbols linked to Triple H. If you're Triple H, that's not a scathing indictment, its a form of flattery. 

 

[Octopus]

2 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

but Roman's matches don't feel like wrestling matches to me -- They're like plodding, overly-verbal-for-the-TV-mic plays that just happen to be taking place in a wrestling match. 

It’s not wrestling. It’s glorious Sports Entertainment. It’s surrounding the concepts and themes of wrestling, but the show is about making movies. This was a great episode. Tune in next week, sponsored by C4 Energy.

edit to add: I’m not fully being sarcastic. WWE is a whole different genre. The amount of mid match characters stopping to smack talk each other or pose to the cameras is a thing throughout the show. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Octopus

[EVA]

Yeah @John from Cincinnati Bloodline Roman matches almost universally stink because they inevitably turn into community theatre instead of wresting.

I won’t get to watch the Sami match until tomorrow, so no judgment on that yet, but the KO match at the Rumble was dog shit. And they had some good matches in the past pre-Bloodline.

[Octopus]

I find it riveting. Not in a way to go back and watch after the fact, but in a way that I want to spend money in the moment. So I guess that’s that.

[Raziel]

Honestly, I'd rather have mid match shit talking and character work for the back row than a non-stop parade of "bangers" just for the sake of it.  It's probably because I'm a wrestling boomer and liked it better when people didn't chase snowflakes and told actual stories that weren't "how many times can I kick out of a finisher".

 

Not saying WWE doesn't do that *stares straight at Brock*, but I've been somewhat appreciative of focusing more on characater work than getting 2000 moves in.

[Octopus]

5 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Honestly, I'd rather have mid match shit talking and character work for the back row than a non-stop parade of "bangers" just for the sake of it. 

Give me both. I don’t think “wrestling” should be one thing. Give me a buffet of different styles and types of pacing. And/or different companies that present different philosophies of bookings and match types. 
This path month has been wonderful having the Bloodline segments on one show and Danielson epics on the other. Gunther chipping with one company and the Elite sprinting on the other. Such a fun time to be a wrestler. Even the stuff that doesn’t do it for me, I know enjoyment isn’t far away. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm someone who loved The Ultimate Warrior vs. Macho Man as a kid and on rewatch it holds up.. it will always hold up. It's not nostalgic to me, it's pro wrestling.. 

Pro wrestling comes in various sub-genres and the best events to me are the ones that explore various sub-genres.  

I don't want 8 "bangers" either.. I want a match with limbwork followed by a match with mid match character work and shit talk. 

[EVA]

Are you comparing Bloodline Roman plodders to Warrior/Macho?

[Infinit]

This tweet really stood out to me after reading about Sami not bring a "top guy" all weekend

 

[dorfus malorfus]

5 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

 Roman's matches don't feel like wrestling matches to me -- They're like plodding, overly-verbal-for-the-TV-mic plays that just happen to be taking place in a wrestling match. 

For what it's worth, I don't watch enough WWE to say one way or the other but 1) this is definitely an extremely apt description of his 1/2 of last night's match, and 2) this actually perfectly describes everything I hated about post-back injury HBK matches full of emoting and bad acting and overselling and audible talking and not very much compelling wrestling (including the Taker stuff it's everyone's job to drool over -- speaking of "am I the only one"). 

[EVA]

I wish I had the time to write a deeper critical analysis of the Roman/Sami story, because for all of the fawning over the storytelling, nobody (that I’ve read yet) has sniffed out the far more interesting stuff going on under the surface—specifically, the way the story changed after Vince was forced out and what that change says about Vince, HHH, and their relationship to each other.

I think writers tend to reveal a lot about themselves through their work, whether they intend to or not. So, consider…

In Vince’s version, Sami is a bumbling, wannabe family member, a hanger-on. He’s a joke, and the punchline is that he’s never going to REALLY be accepted, no matter how hard he tries. Roman lets him hang around because he’s amusing and an occasionally useful idiot.

In HHH’s version, Sami is cast in a more sympathetic light. He’s a put upon hero who jumps through every hoop, endures every taunt, and compromises his own values to earn Roman’s respect and affection, but is met with second-guessing, derision, threats, and suffering, building to a breaking point where Sami stabs him in the back and attempts to take away what matters most to him.

Gosh, it’s almost like Roman is Vince, Sami is HHH, and the Bloodline has been their own story as viewed from each of their perspectives.

If someone from The Ringer is lurking this thread, you can have that idea for free, but I’m expecting 5,000 words on it by Wednesday.

[Lawful Metal]

I didn’t think the Usos were even allowed into Canada with their DWI convictions! How does the Bloodline avoid Immigration authorities?

Roman’s melodrama is my least favorite genre. I came in with such hope that WWE wouldn’t fuck this up. 

I can only hope the crowd Goldberg / Lesnars the shit out of Cody / Roman. 

it’s not supposed to be this boring

[EVA]

Also Jey Uso is clearly at least *a little bit* Stephanie in HHH’s version (though that doesn’t line up as cleanly) but was maybe a Shane stand-in during the early days of Vince’s Bloodline.

Edited February 20, 2023 by EVA

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, Infinit said:

This tweet really stood out to me after reading about Sami not bring a "top guy" all weekend

 

So was Drew "top guy" also? 

[Casey]

Is the argument whether Sami is a top guy or not, or is it whether he should be the one to end Roman's title reign? Because those are two different questions with two different answers in my mind.

But no matter the question, I don't see Jey Uso being a yes to either of them like some believe.

[Ziggy]

I went back and watched the full show and it was really good overall. They can book Brock vs Lashley over and over like Ziggler vs Kofi back in the day and I won't get sick of it. I'd rather see them against each other at Mania instead of Lashley seemingly being fodder for Wyatt. The Men's Chamber was dope , Everyone got shine. Tez is ready to break out but I also think Dawkins has improved too so if they split it might be a good showcase for both. 

Beth looked like a beast out there too.

Roman is top tier but so was Sami. I agree with Bryan Alvarez that this was a once in a lifetime moment to put the belt on Sami but they didn't. I'm sure he will be Champ at some point soon but it won't be the same as if he won tonight.

[RandomAct]

I've seen a couple of folks here go into it, but it's wild to me looking at the Twitter discourse, and how many people not understanding that Sami was never supposed to be the story. I love Sami, and that match was amazing until the finish, but he was never more than a happy accident in the broader Bloodline story.  Some otherwise smart people have convinced themselves that Elimination Chamber was supposed to be the endpoint, and idk man.  I'm not even a Cody guy, but I also know that going with him is the right move.

Also, the "make it a triple threat" people are wild, because all that would do is making Sami a double loser.

[peterien]

Two days later and the finish still irks me. I 100% agree that Cody is the guy to go with but just give people that moment of Sami winning, give him a 3 week run (like Edge in 2006 when he cashed in) and still let Cody have his story end at Mania and it doesn’t hurt either one bit. 

Just give the fans something different just to reiterate that “anything can happen in the WWE” or whatever and still let your handpicked champion finish out Mania. 

[Raziel]

Lost in only talking about the Main for this show:

 

After months of being a unstoppable force with the current roster, Rhea did a great job stooging and making the story that she outkicked her coverage with Beth.  

[Lawful Metal]

Any significance to Edge and Beth using the Shatter Machine?

[Matt D]

21 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

Any significance to Edge and Beth using the Shatter Machine?

Depends on who you ask. There are people reading tea leaves that think we’re getting FTR vs Adam/Christian this year in AEW.

[Johnny Sorrow]

34 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

Any significance to Edge and Beth using the Shatter Machine?

I just took it as a tribute to their friends.