Elimination Chamber XIII - 2/18/2023

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 minute ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I like Cody and I'm fine with him being the new guy but I also think it's funny that the arguments in favor of "sticking to the plan" and not changing the plan by having Roman lose to Drew in the UK or Sani in MTL are essentially arguing that "the plan" is a 2+ year storyline ending with the coronation of a guy who signed with the company -1 year ago. 

Because it's not entirely about Cody.. that's why. Cody's story is winning the title his father never could. 

Roman's story is about acknowledgement and acceptance and by holding those belts through the assistance of The Bloodline people have no choice but to accept him. 

Now The Bloodline is starting to crack and Roman is feeling the pressure..   

Cody's story and The Bloodline story are intersecting..

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Hell, I was at WM35 when Kofi won and people were crying in the seats around me, it was a moment..  but all anyone wants to discuss online is how he lost to Brock.

This is a bit off topic, but it's a personal theory of mine that title reigns get viewed through the prism of what happens next (for both the champion & the challenger). People look down on the Brock ending to Kofi's reign because of the squash yes, but also there was nothing next for Kofi. He lost and just shuffled on down back to tag team wrestling with no signs of using this as motivation to beat Lesnar next time. Brock went on to fight Cain Velasquez. An utter and abject failure for both instances of what's next. So it cemented it as a misfire for fans.

Yes they gave Bryan the title at WM30. But what was next? Kane. And while that could make sense at the time, Team Hell No history and all, having a colder than hell Kane be Bryan's first feud as THE GUY was a bad call. Of course the injury and the passing of Bryan's father also threw wrenches in there. Now Orton's side of it was good. He went on to do the Evolution vs Shield thing. But this ends up remembered badly because what's next for Bryan was a crash and burn failure.

Just to throw in other random examples. When Sting won the title at GAB 90, what was next for him? Not much. What was next for Flair? Not much. When Austin won at WM14? What was next was the Mr McMahon feud. Shawn had to retire, but Austin went on to an all time great feud next. And I could go on and on.

Just a theory, but I think that explains a little bit of why there's always complaining at one end of the story. It's very rare that any company handles what's next well for both the new & former champion.

[EVA]

I would just point out that Cody’s story is about winning the title. Not specifically “winning the title at Mania” or “beating Roman for the title.” You could definitely kick that can down the road and still tell Cody’s story. Perhaps in an even more fulfilling way by building his struggle up over time, rather than squeezing it all into one Mania season. 

[Just Dave]

10 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The Bloodline story is just as much about Jey/Roman or more so than Sami/Roman.. 

I'm completely dumbfounded that people can't see how The Bloodline is crumbling and Roman is ripe for the pickings..  that's the story.

The problem is that no one gives a shit about jey uso. He’s done fantastic work during all this, but the idea that there’s legions of fans anywhere who are dying to see jey get his hands on Roman is pretty insane to me…

[Octopus]

Fantastic work by Sami’s wife! 

[Steventon]

23 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I hear you on that but I think fans get mad whether WWE sticks to the script or not..   They have changed plans before and pulled the trigger. Daniel Bryan.  Hell, I was at WM35 when Kofi won and people were crying in the seats around me, it was a moment..  but all anyone wants to discuss online is how he lost to Brock. 

In this scenario, Roman is on a 900-day reign, you have to have a satisfying conclusion to that and I'm not sure Sami was the guy or not.. maybe he is but that doesn't take away from Cody's story or Jay Uso's story... they all have a story to tell, treating Sami's story as the only story that matters is sour grapes.

Show me one person who wouldn't have been satisfied by Sami beating Roman? 

 

Agree that the Bloodline story is a Roman story first and foremost, but the idea here is that they are holding that loss for Cody, therefore Cody winning has to be better than Sami (or Drew) winning would have, otherwise they have made the wrong call

[Octopus]

1 minute ago, Steventon said:

Show me one person who wouldn't have been satisfied by Sami beating Roman? 

 

The jerk that paid for Crown Jewel

[Cobra Commander]

I think the criticisms for how the WWE has booked face champions recently are pretty similar.

Kofi held the belt for 6 months and only the beginning and end are remembered

Rey’s 2005 title reign gets criticized for booking him too weakly as well. I’m sure there’s some criticisms of [name redacted]’s 2004 reign

So clearly all Cody has to do to avoid the face champ rut is to turn heel quickly after beating Roman. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

19 minutes ago, just drew said:

The problem is that no one gives a shit about jey uso. He’s done fantastic work during all this, but the idea that there’s legions of fans anywhere who are dying to see jey get his hands on Roman is pretty insane to me…

I couldn't disagree more.. The Bloodline started with Jey, why shouldn't he have a hand in ending it ?

[Octopus]

The What Next argument doesn’t do it for me. The other company had a similar long well told arc coronating their champ, Hangman Page, and even then it still lead to what some arguably considered a lackluster title run. Poor booking can still happen if Cody wins, just like how good booking can happen if Drew or Sami won. You have to go off of what we have seen recently and if you can make that Leap of Faith into putting your trust in the company’s ability to captivate you. I’m a Minnesota sports fan, so it is tough for me to open myself up to good things. Yet, this storyline has won me over. The previous PLE ending was not something I saw coming and it lead to a great continuation of my interest. Fingers crossed they keep me captivated.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Had someone as well liked as Cody gotten Bryan's spot in 2014 there wouldn't have been a revolt then either. It's because the direction was Orton vs a returning part timer that "quit on wrestling". Batista had some of that 2003 Hollywood Rock heat. The fans hadn't learned to forgive and admire his movie career yet.

There wasn't much to admire yet. Guardians hadn't even come out yet, and some people wondered if such an underknown property would be Marvel's first big flop. It wasn't just someone who "quit on wrestling," people could have smelled "came crawling back" on him too. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by John from Cincinnati

[EVA]

The behind the scenes perception/politics of Cody winning the title continue to fascinate me. Vince brought Cody back and saw big things for him while HHH was out of the loop in talent relations. But now Vince is (allegedly) gone and HHH has the book. Well, Cody spent quite a bit of his time away from WWE taking not-so-thinly-veiled shots at HHH and Roman.

THOSE dudes really gonna let Cody stand tall to end Mania?

[Octopus]

6 minutes ago, EVA said:

The behind the scenes perception/politics of Cody winning the title continue to fascinate me. Vince brought Cody back and saw big things for him while HHH was out of the loop in talent relations. But now Vince is (allegedly) gone and HHH has the book. Well, Cody spent quite a bit of his time away from WWE taking not-so-thinly-veiled shots at HHH and Roman.

THOSE dudes really gonna let Cody stand tall to end Mania?

All about doing business. If I’m a disgruntled or on the fence AEW talent that was buds with the Codster, seeing him prominently used on their biggest takes the stigma away from WWE that it previously had when the talent first signed. Plus, think of the fun twitter and subtle podcast shade to throw at Tony. 
Edit to add: HHH supposedly found the pre-AEW BTE digs at him funny and understood why they were done. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Octopus

[EVA]

Roman on April 2nd: “That doesn’t work for me, uce.”

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, EVA said:

The behind the scenes perception/politics of Cody winning the title continue to fascinate me. Vince brought Cody back and saw big things for him while HHH was out of the loop in talent relations. But now Vince is (allegedly) gone and HHH has the book. Well, Cody spent quite a bit of his time away from WWE taking not-so-thinly-veiled shots at HHH and Roman.

THOSE dudes really gonna let Cody stand tall to end Mania?

Cody's done a lot of puckering up in terms of how much he admires Triple H as a performer and leader and how he wants to build that relationship. And that goes back to his first media availabilities after last year's Mania. The relationship is interesting, but I'm not side-eying it.

As for Roman, we have no reason to guess anything about his feelings yet. 

[EVA]

4 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Edit to add: HHH supposedly found the pre-AEW BTE digs at him funny and understood why they were done. 

Lol. Noted super chill and not at all vindictive guy, Paul Levesque.

[Octopus]

2 minutes ago, EVA said:

Lol. Noted super chill and not at all vindictive guy, Paul Levesque.

HHH stands for Honorable, Honest, Humble

[Octopus]

15 minutes ago, EVA said:

Lol. Noted super chill and not at all vindictive guy, Paul Levesque.

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

It feels like people are now saying it's badly booked simply because YOUR guy didn't win. That's not how this works. 

It is on the internet.

[Cobra Commander]

34 minutes ago, EVA said:

Lol. Noted super chill and not at all vindictive guy, Paul Levesque.

I'm not expecting him to be the exact same as the sort of guy he was (or was rumored to be) 10-20 years ago. Maybe having some time away from the scene due to the whole near heart failure will impact him enough? (I'm adding extra words since obviously there'll be some emotional impact from almost dying)

As for the overall product, is it safe to say that the WWE is sorta out of the "Triple H is undoing some recent mistakes" phase and more towards him setting a path for better or worse?

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I think the other point about fans needing to riot like they did Bryan probably doesn't hold weight when you consider the broader picture of it coinciding with the launch of the Network and the requirement for a certain level of subscribers as promised to stockholders amongst fans (and cringe Foley) destroying their TVs and cancelling their subscription en masse. 

By contrast, when they're clearly out here just trying to sell the company, that level of give a fuck just isn't there.

[Cobra Commander]

turns out you don't need to make a show about cancelling the WWE Network every time you're mad when you get it for free thru xfinity (for now)

[HumanChessgame]

3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The Bloodline story is just as much about Jey/Roman or more so than Sami/Roman.. 

I'm completely dumbfounded that people can't see how The Bloodline is crumbling and Roman is ripe for the pickings..  that's the story.

Sami has only been a part of The Bloodline for about a year, and didn't even get beyond comic relief for several months into it. The Bloodline itself has been around over a year longer and we're all tired of hearing every few minutes he's had the belts for whatever number of days. I'd even say that Sami's main story in The Bloodline is with Jey, as he was always the one who went to bat for Sami and it's been demonstrated they have the much closer dynamic with eachother than any other parties involved. Jey also has the history of schism with the rest of his family. There are a lot of moving parts in the story and Sami is just one of them.

The story with Sami wasn't nearly as hot as it is now when Cody initially came back and got super over. After the cage match with Seth he was probably one of the more over guys in the company. As someone who was incredibly tired of Cody in AEW I was fine with him coming back to the main event here as everything about him fit.

3 hours ago, EVA said:

The behind the scenes perception/politics of Cody winning the title continue to fascinate me. Vince brought Cody back and saw big things for him while HHH was out of the loop in talent relations. But now Vince is (allegedly) gone and HHH has the book. Well, Cody spent quite a bit of his time away from WWE taking not-so-thinly-veiled shots at HHH and Roman.

THOSE dudes really gonna let Cody stand tall to end Mania?

I can see all parties involved putting aside whatever beef they may have when it comes to what's Best For Business.

[John from Cincinnati]

I know "am I the only one" is an annoying type of question because you're probably never the only one, but am I the only one who preferred babyface Roman that was desperately clinging on to the imagery of the Shield and getting mixed reactions? I think part of it is my preference for weird misshapen objects like that rather than things as cleanly black-and-white as Roman's current presentation. But it's more than that. Maybe it's something that they started doing more and more of during the PC/Thunderdome days and whatnot (and maybe someone who was watching more of that can confirm or deny), but Roman's matches don't feel like wrestling matches to me -- They're like plodding, overly-verbal-for-the-TV-mic plays that just happen to be taking place in a wrestling match. And I remember Roman used to have what I conceive of as wrestling matches. Weird babyface Roman that some people found off-putting probably would have had a more satisfying match with Sami last night, correct? There certainly wouldn't be the worst kind of slow, flat, nothing heat that Roman seems to enjoy these days. The road here might not have been as hot and satisfying, but there's a better Roman Reigns-Sami Zayn match in them. 

I don't know. I used to have Roman matches I really would like to have seen. I'd have liked to have seen Roman vs Omega at one point. The king WWE guy vs the kind non-WWE guy at one time, fun clash of styles. Not so much with this Roman though, even if this is what the king WWE guy does now. 

Regardless, the MVP was Mrs Sami Zayn. A great "spouse who isn't part of the show and is very concerned" performance. If they're going to go for very heavy drama, that stuff plays well. Happy for Sami getting the push too. The match? I'm happy some people were satisfied, but not for me. 

[Eivion]

Depends. The Sami match was definitely more of a story focused drama rather than physical based drama, but Roman's matches with Bryan and Riddle were both very much wrestling matches. Sami/Roman from years back on Raw was pretty enjoyable and I was hoping to see something similar but bigger, but I can't complain about last night because I do enjoy shit talking posing heel drama as well. Last night in particular was something you don't get often so it was appreciated even if not perfect. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Eivion