Elimination Chamber XIII - 2/18/2023

[Lawful Metal]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

I just took it as a tribute to their friends.

I guess the significance of the announcer’s acknowledgment of the move name? Looked great by the way, and excellent match. Wish we could get more Rhea / Beth instead of Rhea / Charlotte

[Mario]

10 hours ago, Casey said:

Is the argument whether Sami is a top guy or not, or is it whether he should be the one to end Roman's title reign? Because those are two different questions with two different answers in my mind.

But no matter the question, I don't see Jey Uso being a yes to either of them like some believe.

I want to see a Jey turn and feud with Roman, but not with the title at stake.  I don’t think Jey or Sami are the right guys to take the belts off Roman. 

I expect a Jey single push to go the same way Kofi’s did. Give it a year or so then reunite the Usos.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mario
Spelling error

[Greggulator]

I haven't looked at any of the critic's reviews to the match. But it's two days later and I am still thinking and texting about Sami/Roman. I'm not one to get pissy about booking decisions. And I'm not. Because The Bloodline saga isn't just "Who can beat Roman?" It's also about KO and Sami reuniting (KO's been a big part of the journey, too) to take down The Usos - the greatest of all-time on the greatest run in their careers. It's about Jey finding it in himself to stand up against Roman and become his own man again. It's about Jey and Jimmy's relationship in the midst of all of this. It's about Jey finally accepting and loving Sami only to see Sami turn on Roman and now inadvertently hit Jey in the match during his moment of indecision.  

But man does that ending stick with me. I really really really really wanted Sami to win. 

But sometimes the good guys in life and in stories do not win. 

There are certainly "technically better" matches, although that match was awesome in terms of execution and layout. And it was a masterpiece in manipulating the crowd's emotions. But there are only a few times in life watching wrestling where I was still thinking about how a match hit me emotionally. And all of those times came when the good guy won. Not when the good guy lost. 

I have no idea (or really care) how many stars Meltzer is giving or the like. But seriously -- this match has climbed so high up my list of "best matches of my lifetime as a wrestling fan." Give me some time and distance and I can literally see it being my favorite match of all-time. But I need some time and distance for it to sink in.

 

[Just Dave]

23 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I couldn't disagree more.. The Bloodline started with Jey, why shouldn't he have a hand in ending it ?

If that was the endgame then there was zero reason to involve Sami. You can tell the “Jey has an assfull of Roman” story without Sami Zayn.

[Greggulator]

7 minutes ago, just drew said:

If that was the endgame then there was zero reason to involve Sami. You can tell the “Jey has an assfull of Roman” story without Sami Zayn.

No you can’t. Because Jey was the doubtful Thomas. He eventually came to accept and love Sami. And when Sami broke free, he saw a little something in himself that has put the indecision of what to do in his mind. Sami also acknowledged him - putting Jey on the same level as Roman. 

Sami is the trigger for Jey’s next action. You need that motivator to make it happen. And it happened. 

[elizium]

12 minutes ago, just drew said:

If that was the endgame then there was zero reason to involve Sami. You can tell the “Jey has an assfull of Roman” story without Sami Zayn.

Excuse me, what story is this?

[StarChief EagleDemon]

I'm starting to buy into the whole sentiment that people couldn't have really thought/convinced themselves that Sami should have won. I feel like the February PLE should be renamed "WWE: Manage Your Expectations" from now on.

[Niners Fan in CT]

55 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

No you can’t. Because Jey was the doubtful Thomas. He eventually came to accept and love Sami. And when Sami broke free, he saw a little something in himself that has put the indecision of what to do in his mind. Sami also acknowledged him - putting Jey on the same level as Roman. 

Sami is the trigger for Jey’s next action. You need that motivator to make it happen. And it happened. 

I think the love people have for Sami has clouded their perception of what the story really is..  Sami is closer to Jey Uso than he is to Roman. Jey Uso is the one who was jumped into The Bloodline while Jimmy, Solo and even Sami himself had an EZ pass. 

Also, ending a 900-day title reign 6 weeks before WrestleMania would have certainly been a choice... a bad choice, there's way more eyeballs on WrestleMania than Elimination Chamber. WrestleMania is where everything leads, it's the season finale for wrestling. 

People talk about Sami's quarter ratings and viewership but all of this is built off the back of The Bloodline story that's been red hot even before Sami.  To Sami's credit he elevated the story even more.

[Infinit]

But what is Cody at this moment? He's still a guy in his AEW packaging who started off hot and got injured and then got the cushiest Rumble win ever. Sami actually had a story. Cody seems totally manufactured at this point, through my eyes.

[odessasteps]

Pre-fab champion is prob just right for a corporate company primed for a takeover/sale 

[Niners Fan in CT]

31 minutes ago, Infinit said:

But what is Cody at this moment? He's still a guy in his AEW packaging who started off hot and got injured and then got the cushiest Rumble win ever. Sami actually had a story. Cody seems totally manufactured at this point, through my eyes.

Cody cut a promo on the night after WrestleMania and laid it all out.  He's the guy they gave up on, he went away and became a star on his own and now he's back to win the title that his Dad couldn't. He's the returning conquering hero. 

I don't believe this year's WrestleMania was always the plan for his journey because I think they probably wanted The Rock in the WM Hollywood slot but this is where Cody has been headed.. He's not back in WWE to go win the tag titles or something. 

[Mario]

I wonder where they would have gone if they had been able to do the Rock match.  Meltzer thought it would have been hard to get the Rock back for even one more date to drop the belt.  His theory was that they might run Rock-Roman on night one, then have Rock drop the belt back to Cody on night two.

it seems likely to me that the Sami-Bloodline angle is going to go on for awhile and Sami will get a pin over Roman once Roman drops the belt.

I also wonder how they’d book it if they did put Sami in the WM title match.  I’d have Cody pin Sami, then pin Roman in the 1x1 rematch, but that might provoke a riot.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mario

[Gorman]

5 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

I guess the significance of the announcer’s acknowledgment of the move name? 

I would love it if the announcers would call the Buckshot Lariat when Logan Paul does it ... even though the WWE Universe isn't supposed to be aware that a guy named "Hangman" Adam Page exists.

[odessasteps]

Renaming moves goes back to the expansion era. 

[TheVileOne]

I'm glad they didn't hotshot it to Sami. Did WWE write themselves into a corner? Yes, they did. But I'd prefer they stick with the plan than call an audible on this one.

The only way I'd accept an audible here is if they seriously give the belt to to Sami and do it at WrestleMania and then full on turn Cody heel and make Cody the most obnoxious, chickenshit scumbag on the planet and become a ridiculous screeching spoiled brat that he didn't get his way and that he's a failed golden child.

And unless WWE goes 100% on that, I see no point in changing course now. Would Cody even be on board with that? Look at all the dumb shit he was doing in AEW that went absolutely nowhere.

Also you don't build up Roman this much and split the titles right before WrestleMania. Frankly, the brand extension is useless anyway and having two world champions is stupid.

Think about this. Roman has been the undisputed champion for almost a year. That hasn't hurt or killed business at all for WWE. In fact, they've been doing some of their best numbers in a long time. If anything, it's further proof that this highly eroded brand extension is idiotic and unnecessary.

[EVA]

Finally saw Sami/Roman. First 3/4’s were really good, but once we hit the ref bumps it got real dumb and culminated in the usual, flat Bloodline Roman finish.

For a guy whose offense is like 75% punches, I feel like we don’t talk enough about how sub-par Roman’s punches are. This is the DVDVR, for Pete’s sake. That motherfucker’s fist is clearly open every time. Sami’s Superman punch was better than his! It looked like a PUNCH.

Really, in general, Sami was laying his shit in way more than Roman. Some really good, solid contact on his clotheslines. But if Roman wants to be the brawl and jaw guy, then he really needs to be rougher and nastier in the ring. Should probably watch some RUSH tape.

[Ziggy]

8 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

I don't believe this year's WrestleMania was always the plan for his journey because I think they probably wanted The Rock in the WM Hollywood slot but this is where Cody has been headed.. He's not back in WWE to go win the tag titles or something. 

Wasn't The Rock vs Roman plan the real reason why Roman has had such a strong and long title run? The Bloodline storyline was something Roman came up with along the way and a way to build towards Rock vs Roman in a way that made the most scince

[Nurzbenny]

3 days later and I just don’t see how you pass that moment up. What happens after is irrelevant. Sami wins that and he becomes legend. Endless video package fodder on a loop, then now together forever or whatever the hell the tag is.

He can lose again in short order, by way of uso shenanigans and you still get your tag match that has even more heat now and you still get your Roman Cody if you absolutely have to have that by hook or crook.

It plays into the Cody “he’s a man” quip about Roman. 
It’s all a little bonkers to me, that that golden moment, served up on a platter and there’s this collective “na you can’t do that” 

Like this is wrestling, you most certainly CAN do that. The foley win and the Luger win which I had totally forgot about which makes even less sense given all the things that were going on back then, but is not any less iconic an image 25 years later, are all right there as examples. I’m still baffled, in an almost, dream state. It’s that incredulous to me. This was a lay up 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Nurzbenny

[The Idiot King]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:09 AM, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I think the vocal displeasure here is less to do with this specific scenario, and more to do with WWE just spamming the same thing over and over. For 20+ years in these scenarios they don't pull the trigger. They stick to the manufactured plans and don't change course if something gets hot. I'm not even saying they are always wrong for doing so, or even in this specific scenario. I just think having excitement in something not fulfilled over and over and over rubs people the wrong way.

I am absolutely in this boat.

I'm sure this has all been beaten to a pulp at this point, chewed over and analyzed to death here and elsewhere, but with a real rising tide of "WWE ICHIBAN - When does Roman Reigns collect his Emmy and step over Tiny Tony Khan like Iverson over Ty Lue" around the rest of the wrestling internet, I gotta say: This was 2/3 of a good, compelling story that was never going to be able to stick the landing because of what the WWE is. 

The WWE is a gargantuan, international, publicly traded (for now?) entertainment entity that Puts Smiles On Faces, Makes Dreams Come True, Shatters The Glass Ceiling and Breaks Racial Barriers (Unless You Want Less of That, Because...) and is in the business of Wrestlemania Moments that please their shareholders. That is what they are, no matter who is in charge of creative or the company in general, and that's fine! It doesn't mean they can't put on good wrestling matches, hire talented performers, or be a lot of fun to watch, sometimes. 

What is DOES mean is that their stories, inevitably, suck. Like all multi-billion-dollar media companies in the 21st Century, they are lashed to never, ever, ever taking a risk. They are financially unwilling to get a little crazy with it.  And again, that's their prerogative, but that makes for boring, formulaic stories, even by wrestling standards, and expecting anything different from WWE is delusional. What you get is a story that will end exactly how you think it will end, with nothing too out of place or genuinely surprising and that, to me, does not deserve the kind of kudos they've been getting for "storytelling." This is Sub-Marvel kind of stuff, and I think that is exactly the slot WWE is gunning for. 

I'm ripping off someone smarter than myself when I say that one of the worst things in sports (entertainment!) fandom these days is that nobody thinks of themselves as the workers anymore, they think of themselves as the OWNERS. They imagine themselves in the role of the GM or the moneyman and instead of being like, "I see myself in this incredibly talented, nearly superhuman (even when functioning as an underdog surrogate) performer, and am excited when good things happen to them," everybody is constantly playing fantasy football. Would putting the title on Sami "make business sense?" Could Sami "be The Guy(tm)?" What about how much merch Cody is moving? Who cares!  I don't care if WWE (or AEW) make 1.2 Billion as opposed to 1.3 Billion next year. I just want to have fun. I want to be Sports Entertained.

I watched the match, and it was really electric (and managed to convey a lot without much flashy in-ring work) until the over-schmozzed end because they had backed themselves into a corner. I'm glad Sami got this whole run, but let's not pretend that any of this is a good blowoff to the story (and to be clear, the story is OVER). Let's not pretend it was anything other than a cynical reverting to the mean, because that is what the WWE does.

Good luck to Codylander, I bet he'll have a banger match with Roman, but the Story that WWE is telling you, the fan, over and over and over again, is that nothing ever changes because that would affect the bottom line, and there's nothing you can do about it, so don't bother getting too invested.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by The Idiot King

[TheVileOne]

WWE went with the safe corporate choice. They went with what's best for business and not the B+ player. 

[peterien]

21 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I'm glad they didn't hotshot it to Sami. Did WWE write themselves into a corner? Yes, they did. But I'd prefer they stick with the plan than call an audible on this one.

The only way I'd accept an audible here is if they seriously give the belt to to Sami and do it at WrestleMania and then full on turn Cody heel and make Cody the most obnoxious, chickenshit scumbag on the planet and become a ridiculous screeching spoiled brat that he didn't get his way and that he's a failed golden child.

And unless WWE goes 100% on that, I see no point in changing course now. Would Cody even be on board with that? Look at all the dumb shit he was doing in AEW that went absolutely nowhere.

Also you don't build up Roman this much and split the titles right before WrestleMania. Frankly, the brand extension is useless anyway and having two world champions is stupid.

Think about this. Roman has been the undisputed champion for almost a year. That hasn't hurt or killed business at all for WWE. In fact, they've been doing some of their best numbers in a long time. If anything, it's further proof that this highly eroded brand extension is idiotic and unnecessary.

What will be interesting to see is IF (and it’s a big if going off the reactions he’s getting now) is how Cody reacts if during his title run the fans turn on him the same way the AEW fans did after time? 

He won’t be able to pull the crap he did in AEW (“I will not turn heel” etc.) 

I don’t see it happening however, at most he’ll get the Cena split reactions 

[elizium]

Isn’t the Cena split reaction Cody’s dream?

Edited February 21, 2023 by elizium

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

WWE went with the safe corporate choice. They went with what's best for business and not the B+ player. 

These are pretty outrageous takes considering Cody is the B+ player that was saddled with terrible gimmicks and terrible stories for most of his career. He left the company and went to ROH and NJPW before building a company of his own and now he's back trying to reach a point in WWE that nobody would have ever imagined a couple years ago or five years ago etc. 

Cody is not a "safe" pick to me considering he was nowhere near the main event radar until he made himself into what he is now.. 

But somehow because WWE wants to ride with him as the guy its bad.. ?

Sami got himself over in this angle. Cody got himself over through the course of many promotions over a number of years. 

Like I said before, most of this discussion to me is sour grapes. Sami has made it further than almost anyone, he was given a main event match in his hometown where he really didn't even lose considering all that went into the finish to protect him. You don't think he's happy as hell right now? He's going to have a big spot on the card too.

[The Idiot King]

35 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

These are pretty outrageous takes considering Cody is the B+ player that was saddled with terrible gimmicks and terrible stories for most of his career. He left the company and went to ROH and NJPW before building a company of his own and now he's back trying to reach a point in WWE that nobody would have ever imagined a couple years ago or five years ago etc. 

Cody is not a "safe" pick to me considering he was nowhere near the main event radar until he made himself into what he is now.. 

But somehow because WWE wants to ride with him as the guy its bad.. ?

Sami got himself over in this angle. Cody got himself over through the course of many promotions over a number of years. 

Like I said before, most of this discussion to me is sour grapes. Sami has made it further than almost anyone, he was given a main event match in his hometown where he really didn't even lose considering all that went into the finish to protect him. You don't think he's happy as hell right now? He's going to have a big spot on the card too.

I like Cody. I think he seems, by all accounts, like a really nice guy (if kind of a goof -- but that's wrestling for you) and he put on one of my favorite matches of 2022. But to say he isn't a safe choice is a bit of a stretch. He's over (probably the most important thing in any angle), is politically and media savvy, he's a dynastic wrestler (so his theme song tells me) and he is doing a, hmmm, I don't know quite what to call his gimmick, but it isn't NOT blonde superman. He'll kill it on the talk show rounds. All credit to Cody for his spot! He is my favorite mid-carder!  He will be a good champ.

But you know who else would have been good on the talk show rounds and was over? Big E. And well, y'know...

My critique is purely from a story-telling standpoint in terms of what the WWE does, and how it functions. I don't think the way they operate is very conducive to interesting or exciting stuff, no slight to Cody and his -verse. Nothing truly evolves, nothing truly changes. So, it just rubs me the wrong way when WWE is getting heaps and heaps of praise for a story that ultimately didn't pay off because of the constrictions of fat wads of cash. They fumbled the third act because that's just how it works in this world -- there is no wiggle room for anything out of the norm, even if it serves the story better. There are a million meta-business-reasons why you wouldn't put the title on Sami, but not many good ones if what you aim to do is tell a good story.  My point is that ultimately, there is only one story in WWE, no matter who fills the Cody role, and that isn't much fun.

[EVA]

Cody is a handsome, muscular, over 6-foot white guy who interviews well. He’s as safe of a pick as it gets. He’s practically WWE’s platonic ideal for a Mania main eventer.

Edited February 22, 2023 by EVA