December 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[The Natural]

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Are people this jaded (pun intended maybe?!) over interpromotional stuff that we have to establish who is better than who right off the bat? Is there like a hard and fast deadline I don't about? It doesn't have to be either/or. We saw WWF leave money on the table believing that. In addition, I saw UFC leave a ton of money on the table with the death of PRIDE FC believing that as well and also doing petty shit along with the way too (see the matchmaker passing Joe Rogan notes saying "this ain't Japan" after a former PRIDE star loses). You don't have to squash anyone most especially when they first come in. Keep in mind, AEW has done surprise squashes and they really haven't been that meaningful (maybe for Brodie Lee it did). Point is no one was a much bigger star from it. Moreover, there is no way Tony Khan is going do it. I think those were part and parcel of someone saying "let me show how much of a pro I can be" and then patting themselves on the back. It's the ole Scott Hall I put you over without putting you over move.

You can book it where you manage to keep everyone strong if you do it right. If Tony Khan can't do it right, then he was likely to fuck up ANY scenario you can think. Either way, it was going to be damaging. Then, there was no point in signing her (Mercedes Varnado) at all. You can have it where she comes in and manages to put together a streak of her own. She doesn't have to be put over any of the really notable names 3 or 4 months in. Hell, they manage to keep Jade strong WITHOUT putting her over any of the real big names and we're how many months in? That's amazing considering the women's roster ain't that big. Goldberg had a goddamn roster where the amount cannon fodder he had available he could have been undefeated for six years.

You can literally have a year to year storyline where it's can she at some point beat the TBS or world champ. You save the big bosses towards the end of act 2 or beginning of act 3. THEN, you have her go against Jade for the TBS title. They have Jade's most competitive matchup yet and hopefully Jade is ready to have that type of match. In the words of Calvin Candie, Jade "muddles the line between winning and losing" but she manages to come out on top. That way if you want to do some damn redemption story for Mercedes (Varnado), now it makes sense. You can have where she loses to Jade but some how put together a mini win streak afterwards and manages to win the world title whether it's over a Toni Storm or Jamie Hayter. That's when you work towards having a real trilogy with Jade where Jade comes in and says she's that bitch because she holds a win over the current world champ. In match two, that's when you can possibly end the streak if Jade has to lose. You have Jade be more dominant than she was in match 1, but slips on the banana peel because she feels that she already has the formula to beat her. I think the twist here is you don't have Jade make excuses or say that she lost for X reason. You have just simply justify that there needs to be a rubber match, and now it becomes a question of can either woman recreate the magic it takes to beat the other woman? Can Mercedes prove that the 2nd match wasn't a fluke? Can Jade somehow beat the more skilled vet who made all the necessary adjustments from the first match? That is when you elevate Jade Cargill to full bad bitch status and have Jade win the world women's title. I think that's more than adequate storytelling. At no point was anyone on either side squashed or made to look lesser. You can add the garnish of "hey, my girls can beat your girls" or whatever to help elevate some others (hopefully, if they do Blood and Guts, they don't make it 75 minutes long like the other ones). However, the clear through line is that the FKA Sasha Banks working her way to the big bosses (pun intended) and proving she belongs there.

I think you've misconstrued where I'm going with it and the basis behind it.

Couldn't care less that it's WWE star and debuts by beating home-grown person for title. The bigger issue is how you end the undefeated streak meaningfully, but also even establish some degree of meaning to it given she's not really beaten anyone of note along the way as you say.

Having Mercedes debut when it's largely anticipated, beat Jade and end the streak in the first match seems predictable and worn out. 

I like how the series you propose works out, but I think it needs to be outside the context of the streak (I.e have Statlander beat her, so have Jade challenge Mercedes the next show etc).

[Casey]

4 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

when does Vince form the McMahon Genome Fighting promotion?

If EWR taught me anything, it’s that he’ll form the League Against the McMahon Family.

or Pinky & the Brain form a promotion. One of the two.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I think you've misconstrued where I'm going with it and the basis behind it.

Couldn't care less that it's WWE star and debuts by beating home-grown person for title. The bigger issue is how you end the undefeated streak meaningfully, but also even establish some degree of meaning to it given she's not really beaten anyone of note along the way as you say.

Having Mercedes debut when it's largely anticipated, beat Jade and end the streak in the first match seems predictable and worn out. 

I like how the series you propose works out, but I think it needs to be outside the context of the streak (I.e have Statlander beat her, so have Jade challenge Mercedes the next show etc).

I think it's more that not any one real win streak outside maybe Goldberg has meant that much to the bottom line. I mean besides all the times they said Andre hasn't lost in like 100 matches when he would show up in a territory and then finally lose. I think the reason Taker's win streak at Mania became so important is they won't bound to have him win every match between late March/early April to the next calendar year. They could book him without feeling compelled to make every loss meaningful.

If you don't have a solid reason to beat Jade Cargill and more importantly have something laid out for the person that beats her, then everything before that is for naught. It can't be for the reason of we just need someone to give that rub to.

I just don't see Tony feeling obligated to do that or feeling like whoever comes in has to do it immediately. Saraya got programmed with someone else off the bat. Athena came in and got put against Jade but I don't remember anyone feeling like Jade was gonna lose to her. Same with Ruby Soho in the tournament final. No one poised any real threat of doing it. I think with someone coming in who people feel like could actually break it adds meaning to the person right away. That means people actually feel that person is a real star. That's why it has to be down the line and not well she comes in for the Forum show and faces Jade at Revolution. That's way too quickly. This one you can let marinate for awhile cause frankly this could honestly rival anything they could do with men right now if you do it correctly. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

13 minutes ago, Casey said:

If EWR taught me anything, it’s that he’ll form the League Against the McMahon Family.

or Pinky & the Brain form a promotion. One of the two.

I would love to see Vince run outlaw against the WWE just for shits and giggles.

When WWE is running like the Bob Carpenter Center for a live event on a Sunday, Vince could run the **checks notes** Smyrna Boys and Girls Club or the Dover Police Athletic League center the same night for a rousing attendance of about 81 people.

[Mister TV]

I’m assuming Vince finally saw Casino and now wants to come back as the Food & Beverage Manager.

[Casey]

28 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I would love to see Vince run outlaw against the WWE just for shits and giggles.

When WWE is running like the Bob Carpenter Center for a live event on a Sunday, Vince could run the **checks notes** Smyrna Boys and Girls Club or the Dover Police Athletic League center the same night for a rousing attendance of about 81 people.

Ah, Vince is playing the Backyard to Global scenario in EWR then!

[odessasteps]

31 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I would love to see Vince run outlaw against the WWE just for shits and giggles.

When WWE is running like the Bob Carpenter Center for a live event on a Sunday, Vince could run the **checks notes** Smyrna Boys and Girls Club or the Dover Police Athletic League center the same night for a rousing attendance of about 81 people.

Wilmington University actually has a newish athletic complex (oddly not in Wilmington but on route 40 in Bear)  that they could run.

That boys and girls club is where ECWA runs sometimes. They did a meet and greet with JJ there a couple years ago. 

[Confused Villanova Grad]

10 hours ago, Casey said:

Imagine being so much of a workaholic that you’re a multimillionaire and you’re sad because you can’t go back to work.

Like, goddamn dude, go to the Bahamas or something for a year. Jesus. Work isn’t everything.

Not everyone’s wired that way.  I come from a family of workaholics and am one myself.  Men in my family typically don’t know what to do with themselves when they have to stay home.  My father spent a lot of time at his business even after he sold it.  One of my uncles was very open about bring constantly miserable after he retired.   I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing; in my experience, there are a lot of professions where it’s difficult to build a successful business while working 9 to 5. As with anything else, it’s a matter of degrees and how well you balance the other parts of your life.  Assuming you even want to balance other parts of your life.

i don’t see much upside to putting Vince back in power.  He’s 70-something, has a lot of baggage, and so far it appears the company is able to carry on without him.  I can think of several drawbacks to bringing him back.  

On other hand, it will be interesting if his comeback attempt gains traction.  He won’t be able to walk back in without some powerful allies within the company.  I think there will be a shakeup in the near future regardless. Co-CEOs rarely work out, so it won’t surprise me too much if Nick Khan manages to oust Stephanie and Paul.  I will be a little more surprised if Trips and Steph win the power struggle, but they are the ones with the family connection and the know-how to run creative, so it wouldn’t be that shocking.

 

[Shartnado]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

If EWR taught me anything, it’s that he’ll form the League Against the McMahon Family.

If that happens, if EWR taught ME anything, then all of Vince's illegitimate children start popping up, marrying the wrestlers and the wrestlers then get creative control and refuse to lose from that point forward.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I want to point out a couple things, maybe this has already been discussed but when or if Mercedes comes into AEW,  she's instantly the top star of the division and treating her in any way less than THE top woman on the roster would be a mistake. 

I'm not saying you feed Jade to Mercedes but you need to be extremely careful with the book. 

When Bryan and Punk came into AEW there were huge reactions, good buyrates, ratings were up, etc. And you fast-forward a few months and all of that initial hype wore off. 

Why is that? I think especially in Bryan's case it's because he was treated as just another guy. Too many losses and too many matches against random dudes who weren't over. That could be exactly what Bryan wanted, but that doesn't matter, you don't pay a Bryan Danielson to be just a guy having random good matches with Daniel Garcia. 

AEW has left a lot of money on the table with these signings. Say what you want about WWE but they absolutely under the same circumstances would have booked a big Bryan vs. Punk program almost right out the game. They would not have had a big free agent wrestling Humberto on a random SD! a couple months into signing him to a big contract.

Yes, people will say well WWE also blew it with Bryan but that's different because they fuck up with their own wrestlers all the time, but free agents that they pay lots of money to usually come in and do real well in their first money feuds,  see:  Cody.

[Casey]

All valid points, but WWE also had Cody Rhodes winning a match by DQ against Austin Theory on a RAW. and went three PPVs (in a row?) against the same guy.

And if you want to pull the “well Theory was being pushed/slated for bigger things” then you could do that for most of Punk’s opponents too. It’s not like he was wrestling Serpentico on Rampage (although I’d like to see that).

Absolutely no reason to believe that if Punk had came back to WWE instead (or still does) that he won’t follow the same pattern as Cody. Have some TV matches against established upper midcarders, feud with a top name, and go multiple PPVs having repeats of matches.

[Niners Fan in CT]

34 minutes ago, Casey said:

All valid points, but WWE also had Cody Rhodes winning a match by DQ against Austin Theory on a RAW. and went three PPVs (in a row?) against the same guy.

And if you want to pull the “well Theory was being pushed/slated for bigger things” then you could do that for most of Punk’s opponents too. It’s not like he was wrestling Serpentico on Rampage (although I’d like to see that).

Absolutely no reason to believe that if Punk had came back to WWE instead (or still does) that he won’t follow the same pattern as Cody. Have some TV matches against established upper midcarders, feud with a top name, and go multiple PPVs having repeats of matches.

Oh I think Punk was handled better than Bryan. I think my main issue with the Punk booking was that they extended the "I'm really happy to be here guys!!" Stuff way past its expiration date. That's not CM Punk. CM Punk whether heel or face is an asshole, his feuds should be centered around how much of a dick he's being to whoever he's fighting.

Bryan's booking has been more egregious. Again, Bryan probably wanted it this way but if you're Tony Khan and you sign this huge free agent, you don't really want him playing 10 minutes of garbage time when the game is out of hand. He's your star, you want him taking 20 shots a game and you want to run your offense through him. Bryan came in and right away fended with Omega which was awesome and absolutely the smart play, but from there its been one medicore meaningless thing to the next. They never really did much with The BCC either to make them stand out from the other stables. 

[EVA]

31 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Oh I think Punk was handled better than Bryan. I think my main issue with the Punk booking was that they extended the "I'm really happy to be here guys!!" Stuff way past its expiration date. That's not CM Punk. CM Punk whether heel or face is an asshole, his feuds should be centered around how much of a dick he's being to whoever he's fighting.

 

What are you counting as the expiration date? He debuted in August and was in a feud with Eddie Kingston over how much of an asshole Punk really is (and Punk largely proving him right) by late October. Then it was on to MJF. So 2 months was too long?

Edited December 14, 2022 by EVA

[Casey]

Danielson went from feuding with the World Champion (Omega) to… feuding with the new World Champion (Hangman).

His 2022 has been terrible because quite honestly the Blackpool Combat Club sucks. I’m glad it happened obviously, but Moxley going to rehab when he did changed their plans too. By all accounts we were headed towards a feud with a heel Moxley instead of the Hangman stuff - which in turn would have possibly led to either heel Mox or Danielson challenging Hangman at Revolution instead of Adam Cole again. Or maybe they hold off until Punk wins the title, who knows.

Also the whole “rah rah I’m happy to be here” thing with Punk felt genuine and likely was. And a way to ease him back into full time status after being away for 7 years. You don’t bring back Punk after that Rampage return and right off the rip play into him being an asshole. Two months is about right, like @EVA said.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Casey

[Niners Fan in CT]

Mandy has been released. 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by RIPPA
Updated tweet

[Craig H]

What the fuck?! Why would they release Mandy? That's really dumb.

[RIPPA]

4 minutes ago, Craig H said:

What the fuck?! Why would they release Mandy? That's really dumb.

The corrected tweet is in the WWE TV Thread but basically - it appears they weren't happy with her posting on her personal OnlyFans page (or knockoff OF page - I am old and don't understand these things)

It is a little unclear if it was just that she was doing it or if it was the content she was posting that caused the issue (probably a combo of both)

[Confused Villanova Grad]

16 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

The corrected tweet is in the WWE TV Thread but basically - it appears they weren't happy with her posting on her personal OnlyFans page (or knockoff OF page - I am old and don't understand these things)

It is a little unclear if it was just that she was doing it or if it was the content she was posting that caused the issue (probably a combo of both)

If the gifs I stumbled across a bit ago were legit, holy shit.  Basically softcore porn of Mandy wearing very little and writhing around on a bed.  Closeups of her crotch and cameltoe, if that’s your thing.  I’m really hoping the gifs weren’t really from her account, but feel they’re probably legit.  In any case, the content on her page is/was apparently explicit enough to make people nervous. Definitely siding with the company here If that’s the case.

Also, I’ve been reading old threads since I’m new.  Someone mentioned she was selling (signed?) underwear through her page.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Confused Villanova Grad

[John E. Dynamite]

If history has taught us anything, Roxanne better boil that belt before she wears it.

[FourPostMassacre]

2 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

If history has taught us anything, Roxanne better boil that belt before she wears it.

And here I thought I would be out of line asking for some spoilerized evidence to support the claims her page was going too far…I know I know settle down postnetico! 

[Niners Fan in CT]

So, she's had the site for not sure how long but it sounds like several months in which case WWE had to be aware of the site. 

My question would be if you are allowed to have such a site, is it written anywhere what a performer can or cannot post? Of course they are also independent contractors.. does Mandy have any legal standing here ? 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Niners Fan in CT

[odessasteps]

Presumably even independent contractors have moral turpitude clauses in their contracts. 

[JLowe]

WWE is just mad they aren't getting a taste. They had no problem for a long time teaching models to wrestle and giving them a push coincidental with them being in Playboy.

[Phantom Lord]

Mandy was playing with fire with that site. I'm honestly surprised it lasted this long.