AEW/ROH Finances, Ratings, etc.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I forgot about Gable and his crew.  That's another big story going on where most of it is happening outside of the ring.  AEW can do stuff like that but it would have to keep the "where the best wrestle" integrity. 

[Kevin Wilson]

Someone, somewhere in here mentioned that AEW should do/consider a re-start or a reboot of sorts and I couldn't possibly disagree with that more. WCW tried that and the thing is - the viewing audience KNOWS when you are doing that and why, and it comes across as desperate. Even though it seems odd to say to a promotion with a downward trend in viewers, I think they have to stay the course. Make a few changes here and there, sure, but they shouldn't make any sudden major changes. The last month or so of Dynamite had been really good, and last week's was universally enjoyed. It won't help last week's ratings, but there are people that DVR the show and maybe thought 'hey this was a damn good Dynamite' and will watch live next week. What they need is just consistently entertaining events, keep building their young stars, and hope that the fans that may have wondered away come back once they get on a good run. Getting a hot storyline/wrestler is mostly luck but that wouldn't hurt either.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm wondering what's going to happen with the TV rights negotiations.  Couple things:  I was watching an interview with John Skipper the other day and he was saying that TV ratings never come up during TV rights negotiations and that it's funny how much media coverage TV ratings talk receives.  Obviously, it's about the ad dollars and wrestling has never been near the top but that hasn't stopped WWE from securing the bag multiple times now from various networks and streamers because the truth is they have nothing else that people are watching beyond live TV programming. 

Zaslav appears to be dragging his feet during the exclusive window (which apparently ends up July) and Puck reported that AEW likely would find a partner elsewhere if WBD doesn't give Tony Khan a deal that's close to what he's expecting.  WBD hasn't put a great number in front of Khan yet.  

[Craig H]

20 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I dropped YTTV in March to save money and it was almost stressful thinking how to watch certain things. But it worked out and thank goodness for AEW+ on Triller. It's just too expensive to keep paying for it. 

 

Shit, I forgot about Swole and kind of feel bad I didn't do the same. 

I also dropped YTTV shortly after you did. I think it is by far the best streaming service ever created, but it got way too fucking expensive too fast. I got in when it was $40 a month. They even sent me a complimentary Chromecast for being an early adopter and sticking with it. But when it got to nearly $80 a month, I dropped it in April or May.

I switched to Sling, and it’s fine, but I’m dropping that too. My friend has a Jellyfin server that he lets 6 or 7 of us access and we can all make requests for what to download and then within hours whatever we request is available for streaming. That includes AEW content (I gave him my XWT login info so his server could just scrape that for episodes). So now I just watch it that way. I can’t watch it live, but it’s close enough.

[Craig H]

24 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Someone, somewhere in here mentioned that AEW should do/consider a re-start or a reboot of sorts and I couldn't possibly disagree with that more. WCW tried that and the thing is - the viewing audience KNOWS when you are doing that and why, and it comes across as desperate. Even though it seems odd to say to a promotion with a downward trend in viewers, I think they have to stay the course. Make a few changes here and there, sure, but they shouldn't make any sudden major changes. The last month or so of Dynamite had been really good, and last week's was universally enjoyed. It won't help last week's ratings, but there are people that DVR the show and maybe thought 'hey this was a damn good Dynamite' and will watch live next week. What they need is just consistently entertaining events, keep building their young stars, and hope that the fans that may have wondered away come back once they get on a good run. Getting a hot storyline/wrestler is mostly luck but that wouldn't hurt either.

Couple other things. First One related to this quote. This obviously isn’t a 1:1 comparison, but when Raw/WWF looked like they were on their deathbed and there were even talks about WWF potentially folding (I remember this coming up frequently enough on WOR during the Eyada days and in the newsletter), they were starting to crank out good content on a consistent basis. It’s the last time you could look at Vince’s booking and say he was consistent and stuck with what was working despite things looking bleak. He actually stayed the course. Of course they had Austin (intermittently due to injuries), DX, the Nation and the Rock, Mankind, the Hart Foundation, etc. and those legendary acts are going to help, but they didn’t lead to an immediate turnaround at the time. Even still, they stuck with what they were doing week to week. He figured out what fans loved the most or at least he had decent storylines and he kept it going.

A month of good wrestling and stories aren’t going to turn things around. Neither will 2 or 3 months, but if you stay consistent, it will turn around. Let the other company make mistakes and retake the market share that you have ceded to NXT, Raw, and SD. Basically, “It’s a problem you think we need to explain ourselves. Don’t. To anybody.”

They’re on a roll. They have something in Ospreay. They have something in Swerve. They have something in Mark. Then there’s the no brainer guys like OC, Joe, the Elite, Toni, Mone, etc. MJF, while I hated his title reign and think he’s a bit overrated, should be positioned as a featured act. Like the clip says, they need to see this thing through, for better or worse. NXT is developmental and they’re going to falter when they rebuild again. Hell, I’m the process of seeing this through, you might actually, gasp, create more fans and grow the market for all of wrestling. This would include TNA. When WWF had their best legendary talent, they were in the pits ratings wise even putting on good shows or shows better than Nitro week to week. AEW isn’t even in that dire of a situation. They just need to stay the course. Now is not the time to shake things up.

Secondly, the TV landscape is fucked up and makes no sense. Even with AEW doing their worst viewership number ever, they were still 3rd on the night. I have no idea how much of an impact Juneteenth of the Kendrick concert had, but it’s something. One of my friends out in LA didn’t specially say he and his friends were celebrating Juneteenth, but he did say this was their actual “beach day.” They do it every year on 6/19. I believe @Ace lives in the socal area so maybe he can weigh in, but is this something tied to Juneteenth? From what my friend said, the beaches they went to were all packed and they eventually had to settle on one. Then after being at the beach so day they went back to someone’s house to hang out and cook. I have no clue if one has anything to do with the other, but I don’t think you can discount 6/19 having an impact on viewership when everything was down to the point where with their worst number ever, Dynamite was still third and they’ll probably still be up high enough for the entire week. Even WBD has dismissed it. 

And related to all of that, something is amiss with TV numbers. I know folks point to it not being a good look to run large venues, but TK has mentioned in the past how they get a better deal to run those venues than smaller ones. It makes more sense financially to keep doing that then. Anyway, their live event numbers are fine, their PPV numbers are some of the most consistent buyrates I’ve ever seen, but the TV is falling off? I told the story in the past about how we were a Nielsen household and eventually I stopped it because it was way too intrusive and a pain in the ass. I don’t believe for one second that ONLY less than 600k people were watching Dynamite. I don’t believe that ONLY a couple million people are watching Raw or SD. And I know that’s how it’s supposed to work. They take a sample of the people watching and expand that to a certain number and everyone goes off of that number. It’s insane that we’re in the 2020s and everyone still relies on Nielsen as much as they do. I just don’t think it’s realistic. If it were, WWE wouldn’t consistently have record setting gates, sellouts, and merch sales and AEW wouldn’t have consistently good attendance numbers and buyrates. It just all doesn’t add up.

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

I don't think WWE is perfect.  They are nailing presentation and story beats for their main feuds and a lot of it is being done outside of the ring which is not for everyone. I don't think diehard AEW fans want that.  Everything that people are loving about Punk/McIntyre,  The Bloodline Mafia Saga...  the Liv Morgan and Dom 'romance' and now the Wyatt 6 angle,  it's mostly done with exceptional camera work and people playing their roles on TV like trained actors. The Bloodline stuff of late has been way more Promo based to further the story than what they were doing with Roman and Sami. 

 

What are they doing week to week, in-ring?  I don't watch but I'd like to know.  Have matches become such an afterthought and the story stuff so well done that it doesn't matter?  Like I said, weekly in-ring is what's really hurting AEW for me.  For every Briscoe Conglomeration party match, which is my shit, we get Ospreay/Cage in a main event.  Look, I love Brian Cage.  I have been watching him forever.  But there's no intrigue to Ospreay/Cage a week out from the PPV.  And it's unconscionable to put Hechicero vs Matt fucking Menard, who has done nothing but commentary for months, late in hour 2 of Collision.  This shit is maddening.  I'm wearing out the +10 button with this shit.

 

58 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I also dropped YTTV shortly after you did. I think it is by far the best streaming service ever created, but it got way too fucking expensive too fast. I got in when it was $40 a month. They even sent me a complimentary Chromecast for being an early adopter and sticking with it. But when it got to nearly $80 a month, I dropped it in April or May.

I switched to Sling, and it’s fine, but I’m dropping that too. My friend has a Jellyfin server that he lets 6 or 7 of us access and we can all make requests for what to download and then within hours whatever we request is available for streaming. That includes AEW content (I gave him my XWT login info so his server could just scrape that for episodes). So now I just watch it that way. I can’t watch it live, but it’s close enough.

I can't see why anyone would have YouTube TV when Sling costs half as much and is not too much different.  YouTube TV is better, granted, but is it double the price better?  Anyway, I had Sling until I realized that all I used it for was AEW, so I dropped it and got VPN and AEW+, which together cost less thatn half what Sling did.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Technico Support

[Ziggy]

Even if AEW puts on the best TV wrestling consistently, it's going to take over a year or two from that point to really catch on with the audience across the board. Unless they were to get someone on the level of Rock , Cena, Reigns or Cody were to come back that would speed up the process of carrying the majority on WWEs audience over, it's going to take a good amount of time to build up their audience they have. It don't think it's doom and gloom for AEW at all right now because WBD seems to be happy with having AEW on its networks and seem to be very supportive of it as it stands right now. Obviously they should want to do better in the ratings and the demos because it would justify the networks getting behind it more. AEW hasn't done itself alot of favors over the past for years to get the ratings up but I don't believe if they turned into RAW in Spring/Summer '97 every week that all of a sudden 1 million people would be watching every week. They have a great roster and I think in 2 or 3 years people will finally Identify Ospreay, Okada, Mercedes,  Swerve , Willow and people like that with AEW and finally have a whole new build up audience in that time. I do believe that Punk/Elite drama set them back a great deal but I think they have finally started to get past it. I don't even believe showing the footage and Jack Perry running with it was counterproductive because he seems to be making it work for him and that's one of the best things about pro wrestling. Same with the Bucks turning heel over the footage as well. My only issue is how long the waited to actually decide make something out of the drama. They would've been better not to acknowledge it at all instead of waiting 6 months later but they've done it and I think people are have finally moved on from the real life drama of everything.

I'm a realistic with the time I believe it will take for AEW to build up it's audience. I don't think they lack storytelling at all. That's just a narrative anti AEW people put out there. AEW was doing long term booking and storytelling before WWE started doing it. AEW was booking main events for Dynamite and Rampage 1 to 2 weeks ahead of time sometimes 3 weeks ahead of time before WWE started doing it.

AEW knows how to do alot of things right. They can get back to doing things like they did earlier on . They will be fine but it'd going to take a good amount of time and consistency in the booking to turn things around. Maybe Tony Khan has to come up with a 19 point plan like Tanahashi

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

What are they doing week to week, in-ring?  I don't watch but I'd like to know.  Have matches become such an afterthought and the story stuff so well done that it doesn't matter?  Like I said, weekly in-ring is what's really hurting AEW for me.  For every Briscoe Conglomeration party match, which is my shit, we get Ospreay/Cage in a main event.  Look, I love Brian Cage.  I have been watching him forever.  But there's no intrigue to Ospreay/Cage a week out from the PPV.  And it's unconscionable to put Hechicero vs Matt fucking Menard, who has done nothing but commentary for months, late in hour 2 of Collision.  This shit is maddening.  I'm wearing out the +10 button with this shit.

 

I can't see why anyone would have YouTube TV when Sling costs half as much and is not too much different.  YouTube TV is better, granted, but is it double the price better?  Anyway, I had Sling until I realized that all I used it for was AEW, so I dropped it and got VPN and AEW+, which together cost less thatn half what Sling did.

I also noticed that a lot of what I was watching on FX or other channels and what my older daughter and wife were watching (baking championship shows) wound up on Hulu anyway. So there was no point in keeping YTTV. Sling is fine, but if you go to watch something in progress, it doesn't give you the option to start from the beginning. If you try to rewind, you can't. Also, weirdly enough, when you watch the DVR recording for the next 1 to 2 days, it doesn't let you fast forward through ads. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. 

I was tempted to go the AEW+ route on Triller since I get my PPVs through there, but I opted for the cost savings with my friend's Jellyfin server and I just sort of pay him back by getting him or his kids a gift every now and then.

[Ace]

3 hours ago, Craig H said:

I believe @Ace lives in the socal area so maybe he can weigh in, but is this something tied to Juneteenth?

Nothing I've ever heard of  It's more about being around the first day of Summer. Then again, I was raised as in Surf City, USA. Any day could be a beach day if I walked 4 blocks.

Edited June 23, 2024 by Ace

[NoFistsJustFlips]

13 hours ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

For people complaining about MJF vs. Hechicero (who's clearly in their plans) who would you rather have him face?  And keep in mind the Rush match couldn't be on the show and he's going to be in an inter-promotional match where there's politics involved.  Would MJF vs. Evil be more attractive?  This will probably be a really good match at least and I'm looking forward to seeing MJF on the mat

Personally I think it's a pretty weak complaint.

Here's a little thought experiment for myself. I'm going to see if I can rattle off 10 ideas I think that are better than this one. Keep in mind I like Hechicero's work. Him vs Bryan was very good stuff. But he's had exactly zero important wins. There is no shot he's beating MJF. There's no intrigue. It's a glorified enhancement match in practice (while it'll be a fun one!) let's see if I can come up with ten ideas that would be more compelling for him at the PPV. There are plenty of non-inter-promotional matches so I'm not limiting his options to that.

1. MJF vs Daniel Garcia. MJF has been brushing up against Ospreay. Garcia wants Ospreay's title. Would be a good match. Either one could believably win. MJF slipping on a banana peel here to Garcia then Ospreay beating Garcia gives juice to the Ospreay vs MJF conflict. Or you could even do some ECW / Attitude booking and have a run int from two CMLL guys or two NJPW guys and turn it into a quick tag if you don't want a full finish.

2. MJF vs Claudio. While MJF winning is the likely outcome, at least Claudio has a ROH world title run, multiple important wins, and a role in one of the main factions to leave the finish in doubt. BCC screwiness leaves doubt that it's an easy win.

3. MJF vs Okada. Both AEW guys but would sure feel inter-promotional-ish. Okada has no opponent as of now.

4. MJF vs Mark Briscoe for The ROH Title. Would they put the belt on MJF? Would he work the ROH PPV? Also inter-promotial-ish. I know Mark is in the ladder match but this would have been a better use of him.

5. MJF vs Jeff Cobb. Are there politics involved making this one not possible? I'm not the most knowledgeable on current NJPW. But seems like a fun match with the ending in doubt because of the politics.

6. MJF leads an 8 Man Tag Team vs The Elite. Do MJF, Acclaimed & pretty much anyone here. If they feel like this is too similar to what Blood & Guts is going to be then do...

7. MJF leads an 8 Man AEW team vs a New Japan Team. Get a lot more personalities interacting. The people on the teams could be pretty much anyone. It's going to have more intrigue than MJF's current match.

8. MJF vs Christian. Same idea as Claudio. While the MJF win is very likely at least Christian is protected and has wins and credibility.

9. MJF vs Juice Robinson. Same idea as Claudio & Christian. With BCG around it's always possible the story could go another way.

10. MJF vs Samoa Joe. Joe beat him for the belt. Shouldn't he want to avenge that loss? Wouldn't that make for a better story? I know they've moved Joe on but I feel like it would have been more beneficial to let MJF avenge that loss before Joe switched over and joined up with Hook.

Your mileage may vary with these ideas. But there's probably another 10 more at least out there better than what we're getting. I don't think it's very productive to just throw our hands up and go well what do you expect, this is the best they can do. There's plenty of other creative fun directions to go. There almost always is, in any situation in wrestling. The only limitations are the creativity of those involved in the process. And it feels like there's a little bit of a mail it in thought process sometimes here lately with AEW. Good matches aren't enough. People want compelling storytelling too.

[Niners Fan in CT]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

What are they doing week to week, in-ring?  I don't watch but I'd like to know.  Have matches become such an afterthought and the story stuff so well done that it doesn't matter? 

I wouldn't say that.  WWE still has some "bangers" mixed into the television product but all of the stories that people love such as the New Bloodline stuff with Solo and Heyman,  the Liv and Dom romance,  the Gable story with Otis/Maxine and the Punk/McIntyre feud is pretty much all promo/backstage segments or angles to further the story week to week.  

When someone in the Bloodline has a match it's not "bad" but it's your standard TV match before something happens...      

The WWE PLEs are where you get most of the quality in-ring action.  

Again, I'm not saying AEW should be this way because that's not the core audience,  people don't want another WWE when they have WWE but I think AEW needs more of a balance and the matches that I would say are foregone conclusions are way too long..   You want to book an extended squash or even a somewhat competitive match where the winner is 100% known before the bell rings,  that's fine but it doesn't need to go 15 minutes and I'd argue ten minutes might be too long for those types of matches as well. 

[Kevin Wilson]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Here's a little thought experiment for myself. I'm going to see if I can rattle off 10 ideas I think that are better than this one. Keep in mind I like Hechicero's work. Him vs Bryan was very good stuff. But he's had exactly zero important wins. There is no shot he's beating MJF. There's no intrigue. It's a glorified enhancement match in practice (while it'll be a fun one!) let's see if I can come up with ten ideas that would be more compelling for him at the PPV. There are plenty of non-inter-promotional matches so I'm not limiting his options to that.

I think the issue is they wanted to stick with the theme of AEW vs. World (I assume the last wrestler in the ladder match will be from CMLL or New Japan), and Cobb's match would be for the title which would make it harder to book an ending. So this is what we end up with. It should be a fun match, I don't think it has the proper build to be on PPV but that's kinda Forbidden Door in a nutshell. I mean Mox is against Naito who hasn't been on AEW TV in forever, the build-up isn't good for the average fan watching.

AEW in general with Forbidden Door has issues booking the full card since they are building two feuds at the same time (their own stories and Forbidden Door stories), its been a problem past years too. Personally I'd be ok if they got rid of it but TK really enjoys it so it is what it is.

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, Kevin Wilson said:

AEW in general with Forbidden Door has issues booking the full card since they are building two feuds at the same time (their own stories and Forbidden Door stories), its been a problem past years too. Personally I'd be ok if they got rid of it but TK really enjoys it so it is what it is.

It still puts asses in seats too. I think I saw they are up over 8000 tickets sold for it now with a week to go.  Might get close to 10 

[Kevin Wilson]

7 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It still puts asses in seats too. I think I saw they are up over 8000 tickets sold for it now with a week to go.  Might get close to 10 

I know its become a joke (of his own doing) but it really is a show for the sickos. The hardcore fans absolutely love it but if I asked my brother (a hardcore AEW fan but not much else) to pick Naito out of a line-up he'd have no idea. I don't think it does any real damage and the PPV always delivers in-ring, but at a time that interest is trending down I'm not sure if its a positive for ratings either.

[Cobra Commander]

the mentions of how Smoky in the 90s would have problems selling tickets to shows without WWF guys on the card kinda makes me think of AEW's disparity between PPV ticket sales and weekly TV sales

basically, it's much less of a dice roll to see something happen if it's a PPV but if you buy a ticket to a TV show, you might not see anything happen and it was a show you could just see on TV anyways

[username]

13 hours ago, Matt D said:

And everyone hates it because they don't take the Premier Athletes seriously despite the fact that they were built up over a few weeks and there was an angle behind it.

I think this really crystalizes the disconnect here. I truly believe that some of you are being sincere when you talk of the Premier Athletes being bult up for this match in your eyes. That said, in my eyes and the eyes of some others here an act as cold as the Premier Athletes would need months of consistent rehab (or an utterly exceptional event) to even get to the point where they'd be considered viable. It is booked perfectly if outside context doesn't matter much (that being their standing for the year-plus before this) and what is really interesting is to see how much or little it does based on the individual.

FWIW again I think it was fine as a way for Joe & Hook & Shibata to kill time for a week or two and establish themselves as a trio, but any effort to make it compelling as a match-up was kind of a waste; no one would have cared either way if it didn't open so it's probably more of a card placement issue (and giving it too much time but AEW does that across the board as long as you aren't a woman) than anything else.

Also I ain't gonna lie, the fact that we haven't been told of a major announcement being announced on Dynamite has honestly surprised me a bit.

[username]

So I had one of those lightbulb-goes-off-over-your-head moments and checked out a hunch. According to the Collision spoilers posted before the show went up the Joe/Hook/Shibata trios match didn't open the taping; it was second on the card after Ospreay/Cage which opened. The main event? Okada/Guerrero.

Basically it looks like the whole show got shuffled around due to the main event being a mess which... explains a lot actually.

[The Green Meanie]

15 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

There's dozens of wrestlers in AEW that I love to watch but they have to give me something more than a randomized list of feuds/matches with no stakes.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't need this. I'm perfectly happy seeing all of the various wrestlers and styles and such. Yes, coherent storylines (and for that matter booking) is a plus, but it's not that much of an issue for me. The folks complaining about how MJF is being booked and such are making an issue out of one that isn't there in my opinion.

[TheVileOne]

3 hours ago, username said:

I think this really crystalizes the disconnect here. I truly believe that some of you are being sincere when you talk of the Premier Athletes being bult up for this match in your eyes. That said, in my eyes and the eyes of some others here an act as cold as the Premier Athletes would need months of consistent rehab (or an utterly exceptional event) to even get to the point where they'd be considered viable. It is booked perfectly if outside context doesn't matter much (that being their standing for the year-plus before this) and what is really interesting is to see how much or little it does based on the individual.

FWIW again I think it was fine as a way for Joe & Hook & Shibata to kill time for a week or two and establish themselves as a trio, but any effort to make it compelling as a match-up was kind of a waste; no one would have cared either way if it didn't open so it's probably more of a card placement issue (and giving it too much time but AEW does that across the board as long as you aren't a woman) than anything else.

Also I ain't gonna lie, the fact that we haven't been told of a major announcement being announced on Dynamite has honestly surprised me a bit.

The Premier Athletes are a jobber stable, and they weren't built up. They won one throwaway match on Collision and then lost all their subsequent matches. I think they formed on ROH. 

There's no direction here. There's no buildup here. AEW will build guys up and put them on TV for a few weeks, then we will never see them again for two or three months. "Oh they're probably hurt. Oh they're injured." "No I'm not injured."

Tony Khan bragging about this being a show for sickos doesn't work because he's not gifted like Paul Heyman. Calling out WWE doesn't work because he's the son of a billionaire. You're not Paul Heyman, Tony.  He brags about having more money and not sitting back and taking this f'n shit and yet he continues to take it and act like an idiot. Having more money than Jim Crockett don't mean diddly squat when you act like an ass.

Edited June 24, 2024 by TheVileOne

[Matt D]

7 hours ago, username said:

I think this really crystalizes the disconnect here. I truly believe that some of you are being sincere when you talk of the Premier Athletes being bult up for this match in your eyes.

Built up enough to justify putting over a new trio in their first real match in a two week program, to justify having some heel control during the match without it totally ruining the babyfaces’ credibility. For the purpose needed it was fine. It was even a half segment match. They didn’t go over a commercial break.

[Niners Fan in CT]

8 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't need this. I'm perfectly happy seeing all of the various wrestlers and styles and such. Yes, coherent storylines (and for that matter booking) is a plus, but it's not that much of an issue for me. The folks complaining about how MJF is being booked and such are making an issue out of one that isn't there in my opinion.

It's not just you, there are a lot of people who aren't into all the extra promo/backstage stuff in wrestling, the soap opera angles etc.   I like a balance of soap opera and "bangers" for lack of a better word..   but this is the ratings thread and unfortunately I think most audiences are looking for a heavy dose of the soap opera..   In order for TK to keep the core audience satisfied and potentially bring back viewers they may have lost, he'd likely have to strike a balance.  

[Curt McGirt]

I see this has not only turned from the AEW Navel-Gazing Thread but into the AEW Moby Dick-Sized Elaboration Thread

Damn, and I thought I liked to write for its own sake

[John E. Dynamite]

I'm not going to say AEW "lives or dies" based around fan interest and opinion of the WWE product, but I think it's by far the biggest factor in their ebbs and flows - and I push that belief because it's the most boring answer. Unless Tony's negotiating hard for the sort of deal that beats RAW to streaming (even if it's older episodes and PPVs or maybe Rampage and/or Collision on MAX), I think the biggest factor to win back viewers would be the New Bloodline or the Wyatt 6 struggling to keep the momentum going. This last Mania season is the hottest the company has been in decades, it was an obvious peak. HHH is nearing the bookers-have-three-good-years-of-ideas zone that he already hit with NXT Black & Gold.

Contrary to the above point, another long term factor could be the chance that RAW on Netflix doesn't work out. It would essentially be treating RAW as a serialized TV drama instead of a live sport, which might make viewers less likely to watch RAW live when they know they can just stream it later. Then they're avoiding spoilers, then they aren't engaging, then they get used to missing episodes. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible. All I know is that nobody on Earth has time for 12 hours of WWE & AEW TV content weekly, and if WWE puts out competent content they're going to have the edge over anybody.

Edited June 24, 2024 by John E. Dynamite

[Thunder Down Under]

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It's not just you, there are a lot of people who aren't into all the extra promo/backstage stuff in wrestling, the soap opera angles etc.   I like a balance of soap opera and "bangers" for lack of a better word..   but this is the ratings thread and unfortunately I think most audiences are looking for a heavy dose of the soap opera..   In order for TK to keep the core audience satisfied and potentially bring back viewers they may have lost, he'd likely have to strike a balance.  

I don’t even think it’s necessarily the heavy dose of soap opera that viewers are looking for. Bad soap opera is probably even more off putting to the general public than good pro wrestling. But to appeal to the widest possible audience there needs to be a reason other than just “I want to see good matches”. At least from the weekly TV show perspective, the stories should drive the matches and not the other around. The general public does not really want to watch a 4* match like those of us here might. The general public will watch and engage with characters and stories they can get into. AEW needs to focus on the latter and not the former. 
 

The problem AEW seems to have is that they either have stories that people could engage with but characters they don’t (like the Elite & Jericho angles) or characters they like put into horrible/boring stories (Swerve/MJF pre injury). Good characters put into bad stories seems like it hurts long term more than bad characters put into good stories, because you can always swap out a bad character for a better one vs lowering a star because of poor booking.

[AxB]

Have you ever watched a Wrestling show with someone who doesn't like wrestling?

You should try it. See how long it takes before they say "When are they going to stop talking and start fighting?".

All of this "We need stories for the casuals" is a nonsense. People who don't watch wrestling, they might like a funny move, or something spectacular. They don't want 20 minute soliloquies, or 30 minute matches that are  5 minutes of wrestling and 25 minutes of stalling.