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November 2022 Wrestling Discussion

Dolfan in NYC

By Dolfan in NYC
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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LF2

LF2

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I'm not a huge fan of the HIAC at NWO 2000, and the Batista series were simply OK outside of the context of it being the best thing HHH had done in years.

Iron Man Match is a definite attempt at countering why the Bret/Shawn one was so bad, and I rate it for what it is, dumb finish and all.

I'd also add the Last Man Standing with Jericho at Fully Loaded, the Benoit match at one of the IYH PPVs in late 2000, Three Stages of Hell, the tag title switch on Raw as all being fantastic. The Rikishi and TAKA matches on TV were pretty amazing too.

I’d have included the LMS and the Benoit match from No Mercy 2000 (where Kurt Angle won his first WWF title at a show I was at) if they’d been WWF title matches. But yeah I’m not afraid to admit I’m a big fan of Triple H and the two tv matches you listed are favorites of mine. I also really enjoyed the Armageddon Hell In A Cell even if the ending with Rikishi was a bit silly. 

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clintthecrippler

clintthecrippler

Posted
Posted

The point about Triple H being a damn fine "TV match" worker is well boosted by the fact that those watching in real time STILL remember the title defense against Taka Michinoku to this day, which I think may be an all-time "modern era guy working like an NWA Champion" match-up.

I do also think though that the No Mercy PPV (2007?) that started with Cena vacating the WWE Championship, Hunter beating Orton to claim the title, successfully defending against Umaga, and then losing to Orton in a bloody Last Man Standing match also somehow fell backwards into being "TNA-level overstuffed booking but done damn well and better than TNA ever pulled off". 

As champion main eventers go, I have to go with Hunter over Jarrett there. 

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I'm not a huge fan of the HIAC at NWO 2000, and the Batista series were simply OK outside of the context of it being the best thing HHH had done in years.

Iron Man Match is a definite attempt at countering why the Bret/Shawn one was so bad, and I rate it for what it is, dumb finish and all.

I'd also add the Last Man Standing with Jericho at Fully Loaded, the Benoit match at one of the IYH PPVs in late 2000, Three Stages of Hell, the tag title switch on Raw as all being fantastic. The Rikishi and TAKA matches on TV were pretty amazing too.

The question would be then, who was?

Looking over the old DVDVR 500s - Benoit tops most of them. I think, while hindsight is extremely difficult in this instance, that appears largely on reputation from years earlier. Eddy was injured for a large chunk of 2000. Juventud, wow, I'll need to reevaluate, but I doubt anything he was doing in WCW 2000 made that seem realistic. Finlay was working garbage matches with Brian Knobbs. Has Jeff Hardy ever had a good non-gimmick match? Matt Hardy was solid but bland at the time. Regal was working sporadically. Daniels was probably a couple years off seriously contending here.

.....and Joey Abs.

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted

All my opinion, of course: Benoit and Angle are both better w/r/t the WWF in 2000. Angle in 2000 and 2001 is great, like clearly becoming an all-timer, and then that 2002 Benoit Rumble match happens and it's all up for him.

Benoit's a guy I'm fairly low on compared to others, but he was too good that year to ignore. It was his career peak IMO.

More controversially, The Rock also had a better 2000. He was great week-to-week on TV and had stuff like the Kurt Angle title match and the Fully Loaded Benoit title match. He was so fucking good that year. 

It's very hard to parse WCW at the time, and I don't know that I can really say anyone was better than HHH there because it was a mess. Like, I love Booker and Scott Steiner, but no, they didn't have the output. I dig Shane Helms in Three Count and then as a singles, honestly probably enough to personally put him on a level with HHH - those Three Count/Jung Dragon matches were classics that no one remembers were classics anymore - but I don't know that I have it in me to make that argument. 

Also, Tajiri in 2000 ruled as I remember, to the point that I'd probably put him above HHH. 

I'm sure I'm missing some indie worker who lit it up in 2000, too. 

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DreamBroken

DreamBroken

Posted
Posted

^ Great call. Jeff was on fire in 07/08 with great matches almost weekly. the Hardyz/MNM series, the Umaga IC title feud, matches with Orton, Cena, Jericho, that Shawn match, and some of my absolute favorites with Triple H.

Speaking to HHH TV worker matches and the post-injury years, I always loved his work with Maven as far as top guy vs underdog face matches, and the Dec 03 RAW match with Shawn is maybe my all time favorite match of theirs together.

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worldcupfever

worldcupfever

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

The question would be then, who was?

Looking over the old DVDVR 500s - Benoit tops most of them. I think, while hindsight is extremely difficult in this instance, that appears largely on reputation from years earlier. Eddy was injured for a large chunk of 2000. Juventud, wow, I'll need to reevaluate, but I doubt anything he was doing in WCW 2000 made that seem realistic. Finlay was working garbage matches with Brian Knobbs. Has Jeff Hardy ever had a good non-gimmick match? Matt Hardy was solid but bland at the time. Regal was working sporadically. Daniels was probably a couple years off seriously contending here.

.....and Joey Abs.

I definitely thought Joey Abs and Sick Boy were the future of the business.

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Infinit

Infinit

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, worldcupfever said:

I definitely thought Joey Abs and Sick Boy were the future of the business.

In 1992 who would have believed Vinnie Vegas and Diamond Dallas Page would be future world champions? 

Who knows...if the rumors were true and Sick Boy/Scott Vick came back as Katie's brother out for vengeance, he could've had a main event run. The biz is weird like that.

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worldcupfever

worldcupfever

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Infinit said:

In 1992 who would have believed Vinnie Vegas and Diamond Dallas Page would be future world champions? 

Who knows...if the rumors were true and Sick Boy/Scott Vick came back as Katie's brother out for vengeance, he could've had a main event run. The biz is weird like that.

I didn't realize until just now how old he was when he got on TV.  If he had been ten years younger, they probably could have done a lot more with him.

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Red King

Red King

Posted
Posted

The Vice Documentary on Vince Mcmahon goes into details about his sex scandal, the two-hour documentary airs on Dec 13th at 9 PM EST.

HBO Real Sports will run their own Vince Mcmahon story after.

When next spring arrives, an unauthorized book about Vince Mcmahon will be published.

If any further details come out, Vince may have to let go of WWE ownership and sell his shares to someone or some people already in the company.

 

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Ultimo Necro

Ultimo Necro

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Infinit said:

In 1992 who would have believed Vinnie Vegas and Diamond Dallas Page would be future world champions? 

Who knows...if the rumors were true and Sick Boy/Scott Vick came back as Katie's brother out for vengeance, he could've had a main event run. The biz is weird like that.

I had my Schivone “that’ll put butts in seats” moment with JBL.

I thought no one would ever buy Bradshaw in that role and definitely couldn’t see him as a multiple world champion.  
 

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Ultimo Necro said:

I had my Schivone “that’ll put butts in seats” moment with JBL.

I thought no one would ever buy Bradshaw in that role and definitely couldn’t see him as a multiple world champion.  

I mean Prichard and some of the other southern based guys in creative always saw him as the next Stan Hansen. They wouldn't let him do anything else.

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notoriusvig

notoriusvig

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Red King said:

The Vice Documentary on Vince Mcmahon goes into details about his sex scandal, the two-hour documentary airs on Dec 13th at 9 PM EST.

HBO Real Sports will run their own Vince Mcmahon story after.

When next spring arrives, an unauthorized book about Vince Mcmahon will be published.

If any further details come out, Vince may have to let go of WWE ownership and sell his shares to someone or some people already in the company.

 

Was the Vice doc something that WWE helped produce? I swear there was something coming out like that.

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Peck

Peck

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, notoriusvig said:

Was the Vice doc something that WWE helped produce? I swear there was something coming out like that.

That was a Netflix one with Bill Simmons, which may or may not still be in production.

EDIT: Nevermind. Beaten to it.

Edited by Peck
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The Natural

The Natural

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Pedro said:

AEW loves to end pay per views with an angle or surprise.  Would anyone be shocked if MJF or Moxley wins and Punk comes out to confront them? 

 

30 minutes ago, Log said:

Yes. Quite shocked, actually.

I can't see CM Punk back in AEW. I'd be very shocked.

Edited by The Natural
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