Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Leaderboard

Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/24/2024 in all areas

  1. Just remember, Eddie Vedder was right about them.
    7 points
  2. - Re: whether this is a "downgrade" similar to when they left USA for Spike, I don't remember that being considered a real downgrade at the time. My memory - which very much could've been shaded by the WWE's PR spin of things - was that, yes, WWE had landed on Spike (actually TNN at the time), which had less reach than USA, but the bigger deal was that they now were working with Viacom's slate of cable channels, which meant huge exposure on MTV, VH1, and potentially Nickelodeon, as well as - if I'm not mistaken - a big publishing deal with Simon & Schuster. Plus, you had the opportunity for WWE to do late night shows on Saturdays on CBS just like they had done on NBC in the 80s and 90s. TNN's re-branding as Spike was practically built around Raw being the network's new flagship. But then the WWE's ratings and mainstream appeal dipped and kept dipping and the company dug their heels in and continued to promote a hyper-masculine, ultra-violent product. Perfectly fine for Spike - the "Network for Men" - but not necessarily a great way to build a bigger audience. And because the WWE double-downed on a hyper-masculine, ultra-aggressive style, they became a bit of an albatross on MTV. The comparisons to bands like Limp Bizkit, Korn, and their ilk is particularly apt. Huge in 2000 and essentially the spiritual soundtrack to the later years of the Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression years, within a few years, they were the opposite of cool. Mudvayne was out, 50 Cent was in. MTV dropped Sunday Night Heat from its line-up in 2003, kicking the show over to Spike. And also because the WWE had got even more sexist, even more violent, and even more bloody over this time, as far as I remember, they never did air any specials on CBS, let alone get exposure on Nickelodeon. Ultimately, the failure of the WWE/Viacom deal, to me, comes down to the fact that Viacom "bought high" on a product that was actually peaking creatively and in terms of mainstream appeal at the time of the purchase, only neither side really knew it (or could admit it). And then when it began to fall within 2 years of the deal, Viacom pushed it all into the SpikeTV corner and just hoped the "wrestling stink" wouldn't rub off on any of their other properties.
    5 points
  3. Don't ask that, Ticketmaster charges a fee to answer about fees.
    5 points
  4. Dick Slater's ghost isn't gonna do anything that Terry Funk's ghost didn't do first
    5 points
  5. I feel like there was a honeymoon period where lots of people bought tickets to AEW shows because they want something other than one major national company. But that honeymoon period has come and gone. There are a few problems with why AEW is drawing low houses. And it's not a one stop answer to fixing it. But the things they need to address are: Routing. The routing and the decisions of how many shows a city gets in a year are all out of whack. Chicago gets like 12 TVs / PPVs a year. It's too much. You also have this run of running really close to each other. Pittsburgh / Cleveland / Buffalo / Erie is basically all one market. If the area is starved enough, you can get fans from all of those cities into a TV. But AEW ran Collision in Cleveland in September. Two months later Collision in Pittsburgh. Two WEEKS after that Collision in Erie. Most fans who went to Collision in Pittsburgh isn't going to drive into Erie for Collision. But had there not been anything in Pittsburgh all year, they may have. Rinse & repeat for multiple different markets. Marketing & Promotion. Waiting until the week of a show to buy up billboards is already too late. The average fan has a job. And most jobs require at least two weeks notice to take a day off. If you're not going hard on promotion & marketing to get the word out AT LEAST two month in advance you're shooting yourself in the foot. A billboard can grab the attention of lapsed fans or people that don't follow week by week but still would attend a show if they know about it. But if you only see the billboard or local media two days out, it's probably too late for you to find a way to go. Booking. I don't mean this in the sense of oh AEW has terrible booking. I mean this in the sense that the way AEW TV is structured you get 6 matches. Maybe 7 on Collision. Regardless, you can't be certain of who you're getting until a week out. If you're a huge Bryan Danielson fan, you have no idea if your guy is going to be on the episode in your area when the tickets go on sale. Whereas if you're a big Cody Rhodes fan, you know he's going to be on Raw (barring an angle that keeps him off). I feel like that generates a lot of apathy. And explains why PPVs (which generally get almost all of the major stars on) are selling better than TVs. There are certainly other factors. Like not really having anyone super hot right now that moves tickets. But the above 3 are the ones hurting them the most. Along with over saturation of shows. Attendances went over a cliff once Collision was added. As much as I love AEW I just don't think they have grown a big enough fan base to sustain 112 live TV & PPV events in a year. When it was 56 they were a lot healthier. I just hope there are people on the inside providing constructive criticism like this. You have to be self aware enough to accept the boat has holes in it, or else your boat goes down.
    4 points
  6. I would respect this concept a whole lot more if they outright said, just as an example, "Adam Page will be out for 6-8 weeks to recover from his series of matches with Swerve Strickland". Heck, make it like an injury report on a sports team's website, just kayfabe it up for some folks ("Malakai Black is hunting lost souls, will return in approximately one month"). Certain wrestlers are probable, certain wrestlers are questionable, certain wrestlers are doubtful, certain wrestlers are out. Simple. Easy. Drives people to your site/socials. Doesn't make people wonder "well, where's my favorite?" rather than such and such being missing with no explanation.
    4 points
  7. I'm sure that Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, A-Rod, Gary Sheffield, and Manny Ramirez are hall of famers. Putting CC in is less egregious than leaving them out.
    4 points
  8. Even though I'm not a RAW guy (I only watch WWE PLEs) I do think this is good for wrestling, or minimally very interesting for wrestling. I was one of those rooting hard five years ago for Lucha Underground to get a Netflix deal, as I always thought there was potential there. The big question mark of course is if fans that currently watch RAW but don't have Netflix, will pay the $15+ a month just to watch RAW. One positive is that now in 2024, more homes have the capability to stream at least. That was one big concern five, ten years ago. Obviously there will be some people that live in really rural areas won't be able to stream but its a small enough percentage that I don't think major companies care. My "gut" is that Netflix, who really analyze their views and don't mind cancelling shows that don't yield the numbers they want, will opt out in five years. I'll be surprised if RAW brings in the new subscribers/gets the views to justify their cost. That doesn't mean I am rooting for it to fail (and even if Netflix does opt out, RAW will quickly find a home on cable again), its just feels like an experiment by Netflix that future execs may not want to stick with if the numbers don't justify it. Don't forget that the CEO of Fox said WWE didn't deliver the return they wanted which is why they moved on from them, so its not outside the scope of possibility that Netflix who also has strict expectations for their shows will reach the same conclusion. I do think they need to cut it back to two hours. If they want to bring in people that have Netflix but either don't watch wrestling or haven't watched in awhile, three hours is just... a lot. I imagine they will get a big push in marketing, maybe with new champions/new wrestlers heading into 2025 so its going to be exciting, hopefully WWE can deliver.
    4 points
  9. Well, Dick Slater barely did anything in the ring when he was alive. I doubt he would put in much effort on the other side. In addition, Steve Borden has Jesus backing him up now. What do you think is keeping Darby Allin from disintegrating into dust? That ain't nothing but Jesus.
    4 points
  10. Bill Watts picking up some black hitchhiker would be a story I would instantly come back here and tell. And oh, I would ask him about Master G. That and if Dark Journey has a niece that looks exactly like her.
    4 points
  11. Forget Edge going after Christian again - let’s just have weird novelty Edge matches for the rest of his run. He can work Vikingo one week, then Danhausen, then they can bring back Marko Stunt for a week. Get ridiculous with it.
    3 points
  12. This episode of Your Favorite Band Sucks does a fan-fuckin-tastic job explaining why TM is trash while the artists criticizing them aren't exactly doing the Lord's work, either... https://www.yfbspod.com/ticketmaster-sucks-and-so-does-pearl-jam-taylor-swift-bruce-springsteen-radiohead-beyonce-metallica Edit: oh I should mention that one of the hosts is Tyler Mahan Coe, who's other podcast, Cocaine & Rhinestones, has been lovingly mentioned on these boards before.
    3 points
  13. Because the taxes laws for the rich and/or corporations are stupid
    3 points
  14. Just checked ticketmaster to see this. 65 bucks for a ticket, $22.50 in fees, and then a 7 dollar processing fee on top of that. Like what the hell are these fees for?
    3 points
  15. Somebody gotta photoshop that. Shinsuke in his bodysuit, throwing shapes with his arms and hands while Okada stands in the Rainmaker pose, both on a surfboard catching a sick wave.
    3 points
  16. I always was under the impression that's more of a "by-design" roster-rotation thing to keep guys healthy and make them feel more fresh when they return, but I agree entirely that sometimes it feels more like just a straight lack-of-follow-up, which can be a bit frustrating after a big show - I also think a lot of us have simply been trained into that by the Sunday PPV into Raw/Nitro Monday-scheduling, where even the advertising is built around "seeing the fallout from ____! " I have no major issues with the booking since the CC pallette cleansing, but I've definitely picked up on that pattern, especially when certain folks will get consistently used for a handful of weeks at a time even if not involved in a top angle - for example, I think we've seen more of Queen Aminata and The Righteous in one month of 2024 than I think we did in the entire back half of '23. Edit2: I wonder if there's anything in play with routing guys based on where they're flying out of to save on transportation or if there are any '# of dates on contract' or other money situations we're not privvy to which may also be factors Edit: @InfinitMajor problem, agreed. Ticket prices and the lack of a local promotion machine are two of the biggest issues right now (which as Dave intimated, I am hoping can be corrected by the recent ex-WWE hires). Part of me wonders how many of these buildings/price points were set far enough in advance for them to be basing projections off of still having Punk, Andrade, a full-time Danielson, a full-time Sting, a healthy Adam Cole, a healthy MJF, etc.
    3 points
  17. If Kazuchika Okada joins WWE, thank God we got Kazuchika Okada vs. Bryan Danielson twice. That was my dream match for years and I never thought it was going to happen.
    3 points
  18. I used to do 5 on 1 gauntlet style matches versus Misawa on the hardest setting with the UWFI style rules. My first character would inveitably lose by charging into an elbow and getting KO'd.
    3 points
  19. The cheapest ticket available for the show in Toronto in March is $90. I don't think that their ticket price point is doing them any favors.
    3 points
  20. "WHY IS MY CHEST BLEEDING?! IS THIS STIGMATA?!"
    3 points
  21. Also the 20th anniversary of Hulk being given the chance to get in on the ground floor of Netflix, but declined as he was too far along in negotiations with what then became the Foreman Grill.
    3 points
  22. Yeah, I don't think my employer's health insurance covers that. Also: 1) I feel it is in my best interest to be respectful to any and all black ladies old enough to be mom. 2) It would be even more awkward to ask if she plans on being at Sting's last match in Greensboro. I mean it's not like Dick Slater can do anything from beyond the grave.
    3 points
  23. I can't wait for the promo Christian cuts on Darby once his dad, Sting, retires.
    2 points
  24. The Toni Storm segment was wrestling ridiculousness at its absolute best.
    2 points
  25. The Adam Copeland Invitational where he tries to find his AEW finisher
    2 points
  26. Copeland vs Suzuki was a dream match I didn't know I wanted. Not quite big meaty men slapping meat, but they were throwing BOMBS at each other. I wish this match had happened 2 decades before, so the whole DVDVR crew could freeze it in a time machine, and bring it out when any aspiring wrestler says "How do I make my strikes look like they'll take someone's head off? Now, a lot of this is because a lot of these slaps and strikes weren't really pulled at all, but goddamn, in the year of our Lord 2024, they did a 12 minute spring based entirely off strikes with some ground maneuvers, and it ruled the motherfucking world. I would love to see Copeland and Suzuki form the Midnight Murder Uncles in NJPW and just punch the shit out of everyone and everything in NJPW as a couple surly old ass kickers. And I NEVER thought I'd be saying that about Edge/Copeland.
    2 points
  27. Realistically, they should restart FCW as the local development territory for the not ready for TV people to learn and use NXT as a AAA level feeder/polisher promotion.
    2 points
  28. From my cursory reading it seems like Netflix's method of measuring success fits wrestling perfectly, way better than the more static content they have been producing. The issue as others have said is that it may take down less viewed content arbitrarily but perhaps it would just move to Peacock Honestly, this move won't affect my life at all. I've never paid just to get RAW or Smackdown and I won't start now, if it's on a channel or service I already have then great and if it isn't then I'll handle it
    2 points
  29. I am taking my good time getting through this stuff. It's ok. It just means I'm going to be 60 by the time I make it to NWO Muta or whatever. 4/6/87: Koshinaka/Fujinami vs Murdoch/Borne: Murdoch and Borne is a pretty awesome team. I use the word too much but Murdoch is so credible in NJPW. I'd outright call him a star. This is a guy who gets to the end of tournaments and causes everyone trouble. He's someone who's been there as Fujinami went from being a Junior to being a top guy. Maybe it's just me but there really is a sense that Fujinami shows himself as established as he is by standing next to Murdoch as an equal. Anyway, they beat on Koshinaka whenever he's in and then have trouble with Fujinami whenever he's in. There is hierarchy and Borne is less than Murdoch but he still looks solid. Fujinami opens Murdoch's nose in the corner which, to me, felt like Murdoch wanting to bust his own nose hardway but hard to say overall. Fujinami ends up with Borne in the end and decapitates him with his second best looking lariat of the match. Part of me wonders if there's some magical Fujinami/Hansen interaction from before he jumped which provided Fujinami with the lariat (could be Choshu too!). 4/6/87: Inoki vs Bigelow: I wanted to go back and look at this because the announcers called Inoki something really cool like Cosmic Antonio Boar or something. I think it was WIND ANTONIO BOAR. Fine... let me do this. BURNING ANTONIO BOAR. There we go. The announcers love everything about Bigelow. And he gets chants. And he has the cool entrance with Larry Sharpe guiding him through the mist. It really did add to his act. Ok, so this stems right from what came before. Murdoch, bloodied up, is still in the ring. And he gets into it with Sharpe as Inoki just watches! It's a cool, confusing scene. This was another ultimately unsatisfying match hopefully on the road to first a satisfying payoff and second the debut of Vader as the leveling up of what Bigelow represented. Most important thing to know about this one is that Inoki kept going for a single leg and it kept backfiring, first with a Bigelow enziguiri and then, after he hit the rolling Liger (lemme look it up: Koppu!) kick by Bigelow jamming him and hitting the vertical splash drop on him. Finish was Sharpe holding Inoki's leg in the corner so Bigelow could body him with a cross body block in the corner. That was the very disappointing DQ but no one cared because after the match when Bigelow tried to splash Inoki off the top, Murdoch ran out to save him and they cleared the ring. Great "turn" here. I was very into it. Side note: There were a bunch of tv hosts or something there and we kept getting goofy reaction shots. I'm sure this means something to someone at the time but I have no idea. 4/6/87: Maeda/Kido vs Bad News Allen/Ray Candy: Bad News just never translates quite how you'd like in New Japan for some reason. Part of it might be because he tends to be a support player, but I don't know. This had a Maeda training video to start but we only get a few minutes. Kido cannot handle Candy's sheer size. He can take down Bad News though. Bad News, however, catches him with a clothesline out of nowhere for an anticlimactic finish. If we had the other 6 minutes here, there might have been something interesting.
    2 points
  30. In memoriam, can we finally admit both "Girl You Know It's True," and "Blame it on the Rain," are certified bangers?
    2 points
  31. TNT Sports where WWE is right now has under 2 million subscribers Netflix in the UK has 16.7 million subscribers
    2 points
  32. That's why I love the ignore function.
    2 points
  33. I would argue that you could say 1998-2001 WWF that the high points are extremely high and the low points are some of the lowest (especially prior to significant roster change over once ECW and WCW are on the verge of going out of business). However, because you didn't have those points, at no point does it reach the level of mediocrity of the downswing of Hulkamania into the mid 90s. In ring, it's no contest cause the main events and most of the notable matches are largely significantly better in the Attitude Era. There is no way in hell you could put on a PPV as bad as King of the Ring 1994 today. It's virtually impossible. However, because of tastes, you're going to get a bunch of notable events where opinions are divided.
    2 points
  34. It depends on what metric people would use for a "boom". Tickets sold? Eyes on the show? TV ratings? Gate? Trending on social media? How many groups are successful? How many individual people are successful? That can be argued non-stop. What was a boom in the 1980s isn't the same as what was a boom in the 1990s, and that isn't the same as what was a boom now. But I would say that if everything else on TV is drowning but TV products like pro wrestling are getting Big Four sports level rights fees and their gates are near or at record levels? We're probably in a boom.
    2 points
  35. "HELLO YOUNG BO-- MAN." (Bill catches himself knowing he can't call a black person "boy" anymore) "HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE JUNK YARD DOG"
    2 points
  36. "Bill Watts, can you drive me to my brother's house" (entire car trip is filled with Bill telling ESL about the benefits of investing in Krugerrands)
    2 points
  37. I know that address but I forgot my brother's address lol.
    2 points
  38. Updated through Wrestle Kingdom 2024 & beyond https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BHbVIIaR0yY4AIQJ5HsZTnhqQFpLcq6Cct5j9FcqU8I/edit?usp=sharing
    2 points
  39. The Blood and Thunder hits just keep on comin'. Beef Wellington went over from M-Pro to the WWF for a tryout and faced Duane Gill... under Terry Gordy's old gimmick of the Executioner? Meanwhile, for a mask tournament, Yone Genjin hooded up as a character from a popular manga that was a ghost that haunted the toilet on a girl's schoolbus
    2 points
  40. gotta get the house up for Bossier City going head to head with the Rumble
    1 point
  41. All 3 title matches were good. Really impressed with Fletcher once again. Fletcher vs Ethan Page should be really solid. Listen up, Fletcher vs Vikingo in a couple of months, OK? Top Flight looked good against Butcher and The Blade. For the first time, Athena is being put in a position of being an underdog against Nyla. Let's see how she can handle that? Billie wanting so bad to avenge her boss was brave. Stupid, but brave. Lexi was being the voice of reason, once again. So, Abadon. OK, then.
    1 point
  42. I dunno if that's necessarily true post going national when it's clear 1991-1995 pro wrestling in North America was in the doldrums for a good reason. I grew up with that wrestling, but it ain't anything I would trade in to go back to outside of small bits and pieces of history.
    1 point
  43. At least he could scream right back at the POS owner.
    1 point
  44. Ian Rapoport is Xing (Xeeting?) that the Raiders are close to signing former Chargers GM Tom Telesco to be the Raiders new GM. Telesco was fired by the Chargers after the Raiders 63-21 over the Chargers in December of 2024. I really can't imagine Mark Davis' mindset with a hiring like that. You just made Antonio Pierce HC, how can you fuck up all that. One step up, two steps back. (Sorry, but I was unable to figure out how to embed the Rapoport post. If someone wants to come by and set the clock on my VCR, I'll be home after 5pm.)
    1 point
  45. I think the way I've always personally looked at things (and I've probably expressed this a lot so if this is rehash, well, skip on by) is that I don't like looking at things in a vacuum. Whether it's simplistic work like two people hiding a gimmick for 45 minutes, as Technico refers to them, or action-packed stunt shows, as Matt refers to them, if I don't have a reason to care about the participants and they're just interchangeable parts to get me to whatever comes next, then I don't really enjoy that. I can watch highlights and gifs and whatever for that. Like Kris Statlander. Loved her as alien Kris Statlander, thought she was great. Since coming back from injury, she's been regular old Kris Statlander from Long Island and, I dunno, it just hasn't connected the same. I guess because now there's no hook and she's just another interchangeable part, which stinks. Looking at the mechanics of what she's doing isn't different, but the hook isn't there for me anymore, and I can tell you exactly what the dividing line was and what changed for me. And it seems like every time I bring this up, someone goes "well you just want 2000s WWE with constant sports entertainment and no wrestling", and that's not what I want at all! I need something to care about other than "these people are having a match, and they want to win, and wow [can they do lots of moves/hide the gimmick]". But for some reason it seems like we can't have it all, so instead we attack each other by reducing our arguments to their most base components and call each other stupidheads.
    1 point
  46. There is lots of room for lots of different things in AEW. Tons of TV time. I think every PPV should have a Komander vs Gringo Loco vs Vikingo vs Jack Cartwheel sort of match even though that's not at all my favorite sort of thing. That's maybe a different notion than the idea that "working" is inherently right or wrong or best. The entire tradition of pro wrestling criticism that ultimately led to the creation of AEW is that the style of 80s minimalism/working was inherently worse than a workrate heavy action-driven approach. Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid was right. Jimmy Valiant wiggling about to get reactions was wrong. That's basically the ONLY school of wrestling criticism through the 80s and 90s, with DVDVR coming in at the end of the 90s, expanding upon that, still leaning upon it, but allowing for a broader and more expansive approach to what was considered good that was based on just watching a lot of stuff and being open to it. It was really in the late 2000s with the advent of easier footage availability and the 80s sets that tastes changed and different viewpoints were considered. Now, while younger generations with infinite access to footage and the more counterculture viewpoints of the last fifteen years have emerged, and are generally less dependent on Meltzerian/Keithian dogmatism, I'd argue that most wrestling fans on the internet still worship at the altar of workrate. We've seen an evening out of Bret vs Shawn but not, let's say, Henry vs Angle. Basically, if this is what you want, you're going to get it virtually everywhere but here and a few other boards/discords. And even then, there's room here for mostly every opinion that doesn't absolutely shut the door on some other opinion. The idea that working is inherently evil and manipulative and wrestling should be a more tacit and open collaborative arrangement between wrestler and crowd is, I think, interesting to explore. I've talked a lot about the chemical change and how incentives have changed and audience expectations have changed. But if wrestling is about storytelling, think of other narrative mediums. Would you want a TV show or a mystery novel not try to lead the audience around. Would you want it to just give them everything they wanted and as much as they wanted all the time in exactly the way they wanted? Is that good for either artist or audience? I get that none of this is exactly what's being said here, but I think all of it applies to one degree or another, even in just people taking what other people may be thinking to a logical extreme. In finality, my opening paragraph stands. It's a lot of hours a week with a lot of possibilities and lots of ways to achieve different ends with different means. I know what I think is right and what I consider wrong (maybe even heretical) but I know that I'm not the only audience.
    1 point
  47. Good lord, you all really need to take this a lot less seriously...
    1 point
  48. It’s possible Shales’ lasting impact could be revitalizing the oral history format with the SNL and ESPN books
    1 point
This leaderboard is set to New York/GMT-04:00
×
×
  • Create New...