Dolfan Watches Every Wrestlemania On Lockdown

[SirSmUgly]

Rock was so good as Hollywood Rock that the crowd turned him face after like only four months. 

Not before he attempted to give something of a rub to Hurricane and Booker, though. 

Bret Hart is the G.O.A.T. and The Rock is his understudy, as far as I'm concerned, as WWE-centric as it is. You can have your Jack Brisco and your Dory Funk Jr. and your Terry Funk and your Buddy Rogers and your Harley Race, your Barry Windham, your Ric Flair. .

 

[AxB]

Can we have Toshiaki Kawada?

[The Man Known as Dan]

Rock above Funk is.... an opinion to have, but you sure have it.

Edited July 12, 2020 by The Man Known as Dan

[Jiji]

I love Terry Funk but I dunno about GOAT status. He's probably the most versatile wrestler ever but I can't pick him above the people I was truly emotionally invested in. Maybe I need to watch more of his NWA and AJPW stuff (I've seen the big matches). I can definitely see why somebody would take Rocky over Funk. I don't think I would but I don't think it's sacrilegious. Also hurting Funk in my opinion, I'm sure, is the fact I grew up with him as the old guy in ECW and the silly guy with a chainsaw and panties on his head.

Then again, that match of Funk's with Pogo vs. Boosie and Tanaka... PRETTY GREAT.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jiji

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

2 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Bret Hart is the G.O.A.T. and The Rock is his understudy, as far as I'm concerned, as WWE-centric as it is. You can have your Jack Brisco and your Dory Funk Jr. and your Terry Funk and your Buddy Rogers and your Harley Race, your Barry Windham, your Ric Flair. .

 

Hey, thank you very much, buddy! DEAL!!!

- no backsies,

RAF

[elizium]

5 hours ago, AxB said:

Can we have Toshiaki Kawada?

You can have a little Kawada, as a treat.

[SirSmUgly]

7 hours ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Rock above Funk is.... an opinion to have, but you sure have it.

Thank you, I will.

[Dolfan in NYC]

DAY 58

Brock Lesnar is an absolute athletic freak. He's a once in several lifetime level performer who has the unique ability to work, talk, and perform anything athletic at an elite level at basically anything he wants to do. (And yes, I acknowledge he's a very shitty human being.) As such, he has spent the last year having the rookie year of all rookie years.  He got put over both Hardys, Hulk Hogan, the Undertaker, and the Rock - the last most notably for the WWE Undisputed Championship...  and then he lost the title to Big Show.  But that just gives Brock the chance to win the Royal Rumble and face Kurt Angle for the title in the main event of his first WrestleMania.  

Kurt, is of course, no slouch when it comes to athleticism... just ask him about his Olympic gold medal!  This is the year where he lost his hair, but gained the most important thing of all... friends. Charlie Haas & Shelton Benjamin got brought up from OVW to become his personal enforcers, "Team Angle".  He also regained the Undisputed Championship and his broken freakin' neck, which we'll talk about in a bit.  

The build up is nothing too crazy, just Brock being a crazy gifted athlete - a statement that works with or without a comma - and Kurt being a cunning, vicious champion.  

Now, in 2020, Brock Lesnar matches have basically become memes.  "Suplex City, bitch" is the caption you can throw on basically any Brock match after 2015, especially when he doesn't care about the opponent (cf. Strowman, Braun).  So it's interesting to see where he's at back in 2003.  And it's very funny to see back then, while he was trying to work an extremely "I'm going to outwrestle you" story, Kurt is the one with no interest in doing any of that.  And after a few minutes of gettting dominated in greco wrestling, Kurt basically says fuck all that and the German suplex party begins.  You see, Brock may currently be mayor of Suplex City, but he certainly wasn't the founder.  Kurt would get in nearly 10 Germans before I lost count.  And then Kurt goes ankle hunting.  

Kurt is wrestling an extremely vicious, but extraordinarily safe match.  No crazy table spots, no garbage ladder spots, just two guys beating the hell out of each other with throws, locks, takedowns, and strikes.  It's amazingly refreshing to watch.  Angle locks in the ankle lock after about 15 minutes, and he is really cranking it.  Brock gets out of it and nails an F5 out of nowhere. Angle then says fuck all of this, and locks in the ankle lock again and then... 

Well, I want to take a minute to talk about Super Finishers. Up until around 2000 or so, the regular finisher was often sacrosanct.  You only get to kick out of it on two occasions, the main event of a major show, or if a guy is leaving the promotion.  That's it. (And if your opponent hit it again, it was fucking over.) But guys then wanted to add more drama to their matches, so why not hit a finisher mid-match that you'd just kick out of and continue to wrestle another 10 minutes.  And frankly, it just sucks how much it's used nowadays as just another transition move.  Which is why I appreciate the concept of the "super finisher", the rarely busted out second finishing move that meant certain death for the opponent, no matter how big or strong he or she was.  Think Charlotte Flair going from Natural Selection (her quick finisher) to the Figure 8 (her super finisher).   So, that's where I want to pick this match back up.

Kurt has the ankle lock, and knows Brock's already broken it once, so fuck it, let's drop down and force him to drag my entire body weight with him.  This is (I believe) the Mania debut of Kurt's super finisher, the heel hook.  Now Brock's got to overcome this to get his crowning moment, and it looks like for a second, he's going to tap, but he barely makes it to the rope and breaks it.  (More on this in a sec.) Kurt is spent, but has enough gas to go for another heel hook, and Brock's recovered enough to counter.  After a couple more counters, Brock gets his second F5, and then comes the infamous moment. Brock looks at the corner...  it's Brock's time to bust out HIS super-finisher... the shooting star press, which I personally called the F6.  

Of course, Kurt is two thirds of the way across the ring and doesn't adjust his distance, so Brock climbs the ropes and looks a little worried about the distance...  

F6~

But he comes up about a foot short and under-rotated so he lands on his fucking head.  Kurt instantly sees what's happened, the ref has no fucking idea what to do... So, Kurt barks F5 to Brock.  Brock, who's clearly on another planet, somehow gets up, F5's Angle for the third time, and wins his second world championship.  

The moment is still as scary as I remembered it. Brock "only" having a concussion and a stinger were the best possible outcomes of what happened. My thoughts wander as to what he is thinking at this moment aside, and I think this moment is where he learned that though he was going to make a lot of money doing this, this industry can really suck.  

As for Angle, he's been beaten up and taken all kinds of bumps and bruises himself.  Plus, in ring, he's now lost the title and had his super-finisher broken.  Of course, what few people knew at the time was Kurt was wrestling this match as though it would be HIS last match.  He left the fed for a while, before he got surgery on his neck and got a second lease on his career, but originally, no one expected him back at all, because of how bad the damage was.  His comeback story would be one for the ages, in good and bad ways, but that's yet to come.  

---

All in all, WrestleMania XIX is about as underrated a show as you can get.  There are fantastic matches up and down the card and everyone came to bust their asses and entertain the crowd. 

BUT...  this will also be forever stained by HHH/Booker.  It was a bad, bad booking call in 2003. Nowadays, it looks infinitely worse. The storyline leading up to it, Lawler's grotesque, racist commentary, and HHH's final cover, are all permanent stains on an otherwise terrific show.  

And speaking of permanent stains....  it's time to dive into WrestleMania XX!

[DJ Hero Morganti]

I am right there with you with "tiered" finishers man.  I miss them too.

[For Great Justice]

18, 19 and 20 are a fascinating period for better or worse. At 17 we are capping off the attitude era, by 21 we are firmly into ruthless aggression and Cena. These three shows in between are absolutely loaded with stars and huge matches, yet are largely directionless. Even though certainly 19 is objectively a great show.

I look forward to the 20 discussion, which I find the worse of these 3 shows with a main event I always felt was terrible, even before you know what. 

[zendragon]

The constant finisher spamming nowadays bugs me as well

[Dolfan in NYC]

WRESTLEMANIA XX

So I'm at my job in November 2003, knowing WrestleMania is coming back to MSG in the Spring, and on a whim, I decide to try to see if there were any tickets available, and lo and behold there was.  I got 1 ticket in the nosebleeds, almost behind the stage, and in a row where I could literally touch the roof. The fact that I only got 1 ticket actually led to a fight between me and my ex, but I will say, the $80 I spent was a financial stretch already, so... sorry Rich.  

The WWE is still wandering in the wilderness. HHH is the dominant champion, though is acting as a bridge between the past and the present and the act is wearing old.  But, it appears the WWE has started to focus in on the next generation of stars as guys like Batista, John Cena, and Randy Orton are in the process of being built up.  On the top, it's quickly becoming apparent that it's time for new blood, because HHH is growing stale, Undertaker is just kind of there, and Brock Lesnar has a foot out the door.  Stone Cold is retired as an active competitor, and Rock is now just a special attraction. Vince has also decided that the main lesson from Hulk Hogan's return was that he can call on past stars to fill the card, so welcome back previously retired Mick Foley and Sable. But, looking to the future, the next wave is led by Kurt Angle, who's terrifyingly quick return from neck surgery would later prove to be a huge mistake, and the yet unproven, but white hot, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit.  

So, we're back in MSG, where it all begins, again. 

We begin with the US Title.  The brand split between Smackdown and Raw was a new thing in 2003-04, and according to interviews, both brands were basically treated as separate companies backstage too. As such, Brock Lesnar, who was undisputed champ stayed exclusive to Smackdown because Stephanie was a savvy businesswoman and Eric Bischoff replied by making HHH his brand's champion.  This also meant the secondary titles needed to be split (again), so Eddie won a tournament for the US Title, and now Big Show has it.  However, there's this hot talent coming up, who's never won a belt, and Big Show's time is up, his time is now. 

John Cena is absolutely beloved at this point by New York.  A guy who tells everyone to suck on his nuts, tougher than a Tad's Steak, and has more charisma than a Broadway star?  Oh yeah, NYC likes that. So when he enters the arena, you'd think he was entering a stadium.   He has everyone in the palm of his hands the moment he steps out.  The Big Show is in one of his "Big" phases here, but definitely comes to work.  

Early part of the match is dominated by Show, as Cena's trying a stick and move game, and that just doesn't work out well for him at all. I do love when Big Show remembers he's like a foot taller and weighs at least 150 pounds more than his opponent and ACTS THAT WAY. Like the absolutely fucking MURDEROUS chops he gives Cena... I remember hearing them up at the top, clear as day.  Show was messing around with a second finisher, the Final Cut, a stepover legdrop... but that hadn't been established as a finisher yet, so it only got 2.  About halfway through, Cena's fighting back, and *dramatically* gives a fast FU to Show (which seems like a contradiction but it works)...  oooh the crowd bit there, thinking that was it. 

The finish comes as Cena blatantly decides to cheat, goes to grab his Chain gang necklace and is telling everyone including the ref that he's going to KO Show with the chain.  Of course, the ref has a problem with that and takes the chain away... as he's doing so, Cena, cheeky monkey that he is, pulls out his Word Life metal knucks, and KO's Show into the ropes... FU follows because, why not, and John Cena has won his first championship of any kind in WWE.  

The crowd is ecstatic, and a new star is born.  Super fun match.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Evolution cuts a promo on how much they rule and Mick Foley sucks.

As I'd said before the relatively recent brand split led to two sets of tag team champions, the World & WWE titles.  I will say, one thing they absolutely got right in the most recent split, is that the belts are labeled Raw & Smackdown now, because "world" and "WWE" is confusing as hell. This was a Fatal 4 way for the World (Raw) straps...  I think.  

Booker T's career has not recovered from the 20 seconds of unprofessional burial from the previous Mania.  He's been given the tag team titles with RVD because... they were in the Alliance together?  Doesn't really matter.  This match is more to get people on the card than any kind of actual story... to wit... the challengers are La Resistance, Garrison Cade & (NOT Evolution member) Mark Jindrak, and The Dudleyz. 

The Dudleyz get a titanic pop as they are the hometown boys.  Bubba had found a home as an occasional guest of the afternoon edition of Opie and Anthony before their cancellation and it was fascinating to hear the guy from Massapequa  talk about growing up on Long Island and really never talking about being a wrestler, and just being a guy. That was actually interesting. Oh, and it was also around this time when they'd begun their contract re-negotiations that did not go well and led to them being one of the first big names to defect to TNA.  

If you can tell, I'm kind of avoiding talking about the match because, aside from it (apparently) being the first time they didn't use elimination rules in a Fatal 4 Way, there's not really much to say.   It's your standard middle of Smackdown tag match, only at WrestleMania, and for the titles.  The three teams essentially worked over Booker for the majority of the match and the crowd is just waiting for RVD to tag in.  Once he does, the crowd does pop suitably, but the guys just aren't clicking in the ring.  Oh, and Lawler wasn't helping any in commentary bringing up "Booker's past"... basically showing glee from the racist hit job he did last year.

Finish was Book hitting the scissors kick and RVD getting the Frog Splash to retain. The problem being, for that to really hit that sweet spot of "awesome finisher", RVD would have had to have been launching himself as soon as Booker hits the kick.  As it is, it's just two guys doing their spots... which is pretty much what this match was.  (Except for D-Von who never tagged in.)

I remember thinking at this point that they were going to throw the straps to Cade & Jindrak as they both appeared to be very talented and in the future plans of WWE.  Guess not. 

End of Day 58.  

Little inside baseball here, it was a week or so ago when I did this ride.  My partner and I don't live together, so we've been doing afternoon walks to both get some exercise and spend some time together.  It was his suggestion though for me to do morning rides so I can keep up with the exercising I'd been doing in the evenings.  So, today after a week of no rides, I did Day 59 and it was a delightful way to spend a morning, I'll say. 

[Death From Above]

The longer I watch wrestling the more intolerable Lawler as a heel commentator becomes to me. He's the clown in twitch chat that says racist/sexist shit but puts a Kappa on the end of it because he thinks that makes it okay, then when he gets in trouble says "hey it was only a joke guys come on lighten up".

[Brian Fowler]

The world and WWE names for the tag belts were fine when they matched the top titles on the brand. Then in mid-2005 they swapped Cena and Batista and I could never again remember which tag belts were which.

[caley]

3 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Evolution cuts a promo on how much they rule and Mick Foley sucks.

As I'd said before the relatively recent brand split led to two sets of tag team champions, the World & WWE titles.  I will say, one thing they absolutely got right in the most recent split, is that the belts are labeled Raw & Smackdown now, because "world" and "WWE" is confusing as hell. This was a Fatal 4 way for the World (Raw) straps...  I think.  

Booker T's career has not recovered from the 20 seconds of unprofessional burial from the previous Mania.  He's been given the tag team titles with RVD because... they were in the Alliance together?  Doesn't really matter.  This match is more to get people on the card than any kind of actual story... to wit... the challengers are La Resistance, Garrison Cade & (NOT Evolution member) Mark Jindrak,...

I remember thinking at this point that they were going to throw the straps to Cade & Jindrak as they both appeared to be very talented and in the future plans of WWE.  Guess not. 

 

I was just watching that Ruthless Aggression episode on Evolution.  And I knew the story about Jindrak being tested as a member of Evolution (And imagine the alternate reality where Jindrak gets the Evolution spot and Batista doesn't, and Batista likely ends up on his way out of WWE, doesn't become a WWE megastar which probably puts an end to his acting career as he'd no longer have the famous-wrestler-foot-in-the-door benefit!) but I'd never heard the part about how much Triple H despised him after like one trip in the limo.  I can't remember if he actually stopped the car and kicked Jindrak and Orton out or if he just wanted to.  He said the two of them together was like pulling the strings on one of those kiddie toys, just incessant voices and noises and screwing around and he looked at Flair and said "Is this how you would have acted when traveling with Harley Race?"  Jindrak, surprisingly was quite calm about the whole thing in his interviews, but I bet he can't help but look at Batista and wonder what might have been.  I'm not saying he would have been as big as Batista, but even a short-term run in Evolution probably would have set him up for years as a name, whether in WWE or for indie bookings/TNA etc. etc.  

[Jiji]

Jindrak has had a long, pretty successful run in CMLL though, so he did just fine.

[Dolfan in NYC]

DAY 59

Bobby Heenan and Mean Gene Okerlund escape a backroom with cartoon style red lipstick lips on their faces and looking very disheveled. Moolah and Mae Young appear behind them and drag them back in like Poltergeist. Because old people having sex is funny. 

Now, we arrive at Chris Jericho and Christian in a program that would definitely need to be booked a wee bit differently nowadays. The gist is Jericho & Christian make a bet to see if Jericho can sleep with Trish before Christian can sleep with Lita. They develop feelings until she finds out she was a bet. Eventually they make up though.  Christian is booked in a match with Trish as punishment to Jericho for some sort of dickish thing done to the GM Eric Bischoff.  Christian fakes being sympathetic and actually beats her up in the ring. So, now Jericho is rightly pissed off.  And we're off to the races...

Christian is no longer using his opera theme, which gives me a sad.  And I will say, the loudest pop I'd ever been a part of to that point (topped later in the show) was chanting "BREAK THE WALLS DOWN" with this crowd.  Jesus Christ, Jericho was hyper-over, really makes me wonder why he never got mainstream fame.  Usually when guys get to this point, they start getting projects beyond wrestling... the most I ever saw Jericho get was being a talking head on those VH1 "I Love The *insert decade here*" shows.  Odd really.  

Anyway, these two have a fantastic technical match... but I don't know what it is, but it seems oddly off. Like the match itself was technically great (Y2J actually busts out a running enziguri(!)), but this sort of feud, where your former best friend has just beat up your girlfriend shouldn't be fought with grapples and locks, but fists and submissions, and plunder.  The story that they're telling is "I'm better than you at this" when it really should just be "You're a dick for this and I'm going to kick your ass."

I feel like I'm Lorne Michaels in the story that Mike Myers tells about writing for Saturday Night Live, "Yes, it got a laugh, but did it get the right kind of laugh?"  I hope that metaphor makes sense. 

Anyway, the match draws out the lady in question in the final act of the match.  She eventually inserts herself in the match and Christian grabs her, drags her in, and eventually tosses her against the turnbuckle.  She's acting hurt and Jericho goes to check on her....  And here is the birth of the Judas Effect.   Her back elbow, and a quick cover by Christian is enough to put Jericho down for 3.  

She and Jericho are shocked as Christian has pulled a big upset.  She profusely apologizes for what she's done.  But...

Well, like my friend from Toronto, Jesse says, a Canadian apology is the same as a Southerner's "Bless your heart." 

And sure enough, when Christian comes back for some more, Trish slaps the shit out of Jericho.  Unprettier to Jericho.  And Trish leaves with Christian.  

Guess it really is Toronto vs. The World.  

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Jesus Christ, Jericho was hyper-over, really makes me wonder why he never got mainstream fame.  Usually when guys get to this point, they start getting projects beyond wrestling... the most I ever saw Jericho get was being a talking head on those VH1 "I Love The *insert decade here*" shows.  Odd really.  

Biggest thing I recall Jericho doing outside of wrestling was Dancing with the Stars.

[odessasteps]

The other thing I can remember:

Hosting that game show

Being in Macgruber

 

[AxB]

Is the game show the Robots Fighting show that's more similar to Real Steel than Robot Wars, or did he host two game shows?

[odessasteps]

1 minute ago, AxB said:

Is the game show the Robots Fighting show that's more similar to Real Steel than Robot Wars, or did he host two game shows?

I was thinking about the one with stuff on rooftops. 

(Checks wiki)

Downfall 

The robot show on Syfy was different. 

Wiki tells me he was also on ATOS a bunch of times (timely). 

[caley]

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Jindrak has had a long, pretty successful run in CMLL though, so he did just fine.

That's true, but I think he probably still has some envy over WWE HOFer/movie star vs. CMLL star.

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

 

Jesus Christ, Jericho was hyper-over, really makes me wonder why he never got mainstream fame.  Usually when guys get to this point, they start getting projects beyond wrestling... the most I ever saw Jericho get was being a talking head on those VH1 "I Love The *insert decade here*" shows.  Odd really.  

 

He's kind of in a weird spot in that he apparently did some acting classes and improv (He tells a story in his book about when he shot MacGruber, his exchange with Will Forte "You and your dick comments", "I make 'em because you love 'em", "I love 'em because you make 'em" was basically unscripted and he was expecting to get told to knock it off but was impressed when he got laughs from the cast and crew) but with his look and Canadian-ness he has a much more limited appeal than The Rock or even Batista.  Like, he's not really believable in a superhero/action hero-type role, he's kind of a goofball and so his appeal is somewhat limited.  He did a celebrity duets show in which he was the first person voted off and he also did an appearance on 'The Eric Andre Show' (Which was actually pretty disappointing).  I've seen ads that he did a Curb Your Enthusiasm-style playing a fictionalized version of himself for CBC up here in Canada, but I don't think it ever aired on the channel proper, rather their online CBC Gems outlet (I've never watched it).  

[odessasteps]

WWE/movie star vs CMLL/Telenova star

[Curt McGirt]

7 hours ago, caley said:

the story about Jindrak being tested as a member of Evolution

I never heard this (or even knew about Jindrak) before watching that and it cracked me up. You can totally see Orton as being that kind of meathead who gets the right guy next to him and they turn into the absolute worst pair of idiots on the planet.