Dolfan Watches Every Wrestlemania On Lockdown

[ohtani's jacket]

But that means only a limited number of wrestlers can be referred to as a good television worker. What about my example of Steve Grey? Consistently gave guys a good match on TV in a variety of different ways, and TV was an important gig in those days cos it paid more. Are we gonna say Steve Grey can't be labelled a good television worker because ITV had a fixed format? What about the catch guys from the 50s? You don't think some of them were better television performers than others? I get where you're coming from, but if it's a term someone coined to praise certain workers then I think it needs to be less broad, especially if it mainly applies to US TV shows. 

[odessasteps]

Then what about the noted quality television job guys like Mike Jackson and George South ?

[Matt D]

3 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

But that means only a limited number of wrestlers can be referred to as a good television worker. What about my example of Steve Grey? Consistently gave guys a good match on TV in a variety of different ways, and TV was an important gig in those days cos it paid more. Are we gonna say Steve Grey can't be labelled a good television worker because ITV had a fixed format? What about the catch guys from the 50s? You don't think some of them were better television performers than others? I get where you're coming from, but if it's a term someone coined to praise certain workers then I think it needs to be less broad, especially if it mainly applies to US TV shows. 

I’m interested in the case of Casas who is in a lot of meaningless matches or in Grey and what they bring to the format of television generally and some of the maned limitations specifically because I think they might apply but I agree that there could be a better term.

[Dolfan in NYC]

We have to take a moment when we approach the next segment to talk about gimmicks. There are good gimmicks that go bad, there are bad gimmicks that go very well, and then there's Eugene.  

Nick Dinsmore did quite well for himself as Mr. Wrestling in his OVW run. He got the call up to the majors and was given the name Eugene. In one of those, "it's amazing that anyone thought this was a good idea" (and/or "no one can tell Vince he's wrong") moments, Eugene was the special needs superfan nephew of Eric Bischoff who loved wrestling, and wrestlers, and was himself a "kid at heart."  Look, I'm not about to sit here and say the R-word, but the gimmick was basically every stereotype of that word, rolled into one guy. And it was a career death sentence for anyone who got it.   

For what it's worth, Dinsmore did his absolute best to commit to the gimmick. Dinsmore is a talented wrestler did whatever he could, but the absolute cringe factor involved... god damn.  

So, after Money in the Bank was over, Eugene comes out to the ring to celebrate... um, "being at WrestleMania."  JR isn't helping out the cringe when he talks about Eugene's "heart of gold" or whatever.  The crowd is *noticeably* tolerant... which is to say they're about 30 seconds away from booing him out of the ring.  My evidence of this... Arabic singing begins, and to a face(!) pop, here's Mohammed Hassan. 

Now, this is a semi-warm take here, but in my opinion, Mohammed Hassan - in theory - is a good gimmick. In a post-9/11 world, I think a babyface Arab-American from Detroit, could get over.  You have to REALLY work on it, because the crowd will be in no mood 3 years after the attacks. But, I like the idea of a white-meat babyface, who is struggling with his own life and just wants to succeed to push the crowd to better themselves.  So, of course, we got an Arab-American terrorist sympathizer who was played by an Italian guy.  

Back to the fun, the crowd quickly course corrects and starts booing the shit out of Hassan.  Giving him the full on "what" treatment, and he, who sucks, has zero idea of how to break them of doing it.  He attacks Eugene because he feels he should have a Mania match, and we begin the long and proud tradition of bringing back an old-timer to get someone new over (but in reality only gets the old-timer over).  And here's Hulk Hogan.  

Hogan saves Eugene from Hassan and Ariya Davari who was Hassan's assistant(?).  And celebrates to pose for the crowd, instead of checking on Eugene.  Classic Hulk. 

I seriously did not expect to write a couple of hundred words on this segment, but Jesus, it was two bad gimmicks, compounded by both new guys being overshadowed, compounded by the atrociousness of the performers... woof.  What a bad ending to the day.   

End of Day 63. 

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Now, this is a semi-warm take here, but in my opinion, Mohammed Hassan - in theory - is a good gimmick. In a post-9/11 world, I think a babyface Arab-American from Detroit, could get over. 

It really wasn't even in theory since it was never intended to be a babyface gimmick. It was very much about a guy taking his anger out on the world and blaming everyone else for all of his issues. Even with his anger justified that was never going to be a face gimmick. Its why I hated Hassan and always hate any conversations that even try to argue he remotely could have worked. The man himself was a terrible wrestler, and his gimmick was intended to play off the prejudice of post-911 America. It was an embarrassingly bad idea from the time it was conceived. I won't say wrestling should never play out gimmicks and ideas involving the current world situations, but at the very least WWE should not since they are damn near incapable of handling it with any of the necessary tact and finesse.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Eivion

[DJ Hero Morganti]

13 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm pretty positive the top down camera dates back way before that. At least TLC I if not earlier, with Lawler going nuts for it and calling it the Wile E Coyote camera.

Pretty sure the first use was the triangle ladder match that set up the TLC1 match.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Fwiw @Eivion, I seem to remember (and mind you this is 15 years ago now) but his first promo being ostensibly a babyface promo.  But negative reactions quickly made them correct to heel.  

I will absolutely relent that point and just chalk the rest of my stuff up to Fantasy Booking.  

[Brian Fowler]

The early Hassan vignettes were really good, with the whole "I am an Arab-AMERICAN" thing, but it was always going to go badly as soon as he actually started wrestling, and the leap from "I'm not a terrorist but everyone thinks I am because of my skin color" to "terrorist" was, sadly, the obvious path from day one.

[Death From Above]

I feel so bad for Nick Dinsmore. You finally get your shot at the big time and it's that.

[For Great Justice]

The piano wire terrorist attack segment is a strong top 5 contender for most atrocious TV Vince ever booked. It got that Sandman crucifixion we’re-silent-because-we’re-offended heat. 

Smackdown had some serious all time drizzling shits stuff going down at this time. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

DAY 64

So, Randy Orton has gone from World Champ to also ran because... well, he's not exactly the best babyface. But hey, when he's still basically a baby at this point in his career and Vince is more than happy to have him stick around the top of the card-ish.  So, Randy's just looking for the right opponent at Mania and is  beginning to RKO everyone in sight, old, young, male, and female....  Well, there's one guy who hasn't been RKO'ed yet, and he's currently 12-0 at WrestleMania. 

This match is interesting in that Undertaker is usually a giving opponent. Here however, I dunno, he doesn't seem all that enthused about this match. He methodically paces through the match, but it doesn't really seem to be building to much.  The story essentially is, Randy's good, he knows he's good, and wants to prove it to the world.  Taker doesn't really have much to do here except occasionally look disapproving and hit Old School (4 out 10 so far!).  I'm really not sure what's happening here, but these guys are not on the same page.

Anyway, we get to the good part of the match when Randy is down and his dad, Cowboy Bob Orton comes out and kabongs Taker with his cast. Randy's dragged over Taker and that only gets 2. Taker is up and pissed at Bob, and kicks him in the face. Time for Randy to die too, so he picks him up to chokeslam him, which Randy beautifully reverses to the RKO.  The crowd goes NUTS for that and they legitimately believe the STREAK~ is about to end... Taker kicks out at two though!  Woo, that was a good spot.  Randy makes the dumb heel mistake though, of trying to humiliate his opponent by finishing him with his own move... So he picks up Taker for a Tombstone... and sure enough, it's reversed.  Farewell young Randall.  

Taker's 13-0.  

One thing I will note, is I've seen so many Orton matches at this point that I literally called out 5 spots where 2020 Randy Orton would've just hit the RKO and finished the match.  Like I'm astonished he didn't RKO him out of Old School.  Of course, the RKO was sold as absolute death back then, and Taker was the first guy to kick out of it.  Oh well, at least it picked up at the end. 

 

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

15 hours ago, Morganti said:

Pretty sure the first use was the triangle ladder match that set up the TLC1 match.

Wasn't it used in the No Mercy 99 TIT Ladder Match? *Rematch* Yes, Yes it was. What a great match. And it's 21 years ago... DAMN I am old...

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

Ah, Hassan. The guy that lost via DQ against Benoit on RAW in an improvised finish because he forgot to lift the ring bell over him and Benoit was so pissed that he kicked out and Hassan lost via DQ for a low blow which clearly wasn't the planned finish.

[BobbyWhioux]

 

16 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

The early Hassan vignettes were really good, with the whole "I am an Arab-AMERICAN" thing, but it was always going to go badly as soon as he actually started wrestling, and the leap from "I'm not a terrorist but everyone thinks I am because of my skin color" to "terrorist" was, sadly, the obvious path from day one.

re: Hassan

no angle/gimmick that requires wrestling fans to be self-aware enough to realize that they  are the heels is ever going to work.

[Dolfan in NYC]

I'll make this quick because the next one is long. 

The Raw Diva Search was one of those segments where Vince was basically begging people to watch the show by putting hot bikini models on his show. Unfortunately, it meant that very, VERY talented wrestlers were being phased out in favor of talentless performers who looked the part.  The winner of the 2004 Diva Search was Christy Hemme who ended up with a gimmick that she was spunky and stupid. This is highlighted, in what HAD to be a rib, in that her entrance music was "Walk, Idiot, Walk" by The Hives. (Dubbed over on the Network.)

In her months leading up to Mania she'd been given a Playboy shoot, which the Women's Champion Trish Stratus had a problem with. One thing leads to another, i.e. Lita gets hurt (shocker) and the original planned match had to be scratched, and we get Trish vs. Hemme for the title. 

Trish's face the entire time she's on her way in and throughout the match is "Please don't injure me", so she's hesitant to say the least. Hemme looks as comfortable as someone with about 6 months of training would look in the ring in front of 20,000 people, which is to say her face was "Oh god I hope I don't fuck this up."  

And fuck it up she did.  

It's essentially a quick affair of back and forth, Trish dominating an extended squash.  Basically doing a "I can't believe I'm in the ring with someone I am so much better than" story. Hemme just misses some spots, and Trish is doing the work for two here. And Lita's out there limping looking 'concerned' (which probably means 'stoned').  To show Christy was trained by Lita, when she finally has the advantage, she does a Reverse Twist of Fate (with Trish facing up) and nearly breaking Trish's neck in the process.  Trish then got rolled up, and I'm guessing is still loopy from the ToF because she forgets to kick out -- an edit that clearly has been added.  And just says fuck it, and Chick Kick's Hemme to retain. 

I'm guessing nowadays, Trish would have been punished for not kicking out by having a shoot 3 counted on her and losing the title.  But it's 2005 and oof Christie looked horrifically bad out there.   

Well, at least he next match is slightly better.  

[NikoBaltimore]

I wanted the Hassan gimmick to work when first seeing his promo air.  But the crowd didn't want to give it a chance and I could tell it was doomed.  Plus it being three years after 9/11 no matter how nuanced they tried to approach it it just wasn't going to work.  It was very much wrong place wrong time but with how time has changed while there's still a lot of hate going on the right time for this was about a decade or so away.

Mustafa Ali is Pakistani/Indian and when he debuted for CWC there were boos to start with.  Same happened when he started in 205 and eventually Smackdown.  But from practically his first  promo video he started talking about breaking down stereotypes you knew he meant it.  Unlike somebody who was playing a character (Hassan) you could tell that Ali was a real person going through real stereotypes and he was bent on shining past that.  Sure enough it didn't take long for me to absolutely think the world of him and now he's one of the more beloved people on the roster.  Heck, if anything a lot of the shit he gets is still about his skin color but it's admirable not just how classy he is handling that but how people back him up.

So long story short while Hassan was a terrible idea at a terrible time they made up for it with Ali coming through at a time where this could work.  Say what you will about WWE but they at least know what they have with Ali and are helping to get his message across.  So kudos to them.

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Mustafa Ali is Pakistani/Indian and when he debuted for CWC there were boos to start with.  Same happened when he started in 205 and eventually Smackdown.  But from practically his first  promo video he started talking about breaking down stereotypes you knew he meant it.  Unlike somebody who was playing a character (Hassan) you could tell that Ali was a real person going through real stereotypes and he was bent on shining past that.  Sure enough it didn't take long for me to absolutely think the world of him and now he's one of the more beloved people on the roster.  Heck, if anything a lot of the shit he gets is still about his skin color but it's admirable not just how classy he is handling that but how people back him up.

I didn't mention this earlier, but Ali is exactly the character/person i think people are thinking of in terms of what they thought the Hassan gimmick could be. I just don't think it was ever a realistic possibility due to timing and the actual intentions of the Hassan character being very different. Ali kind of came in a lazy stereotype heel for the CWC, only to change almost immediately once 205Live started up. It was nice to see them change course on him fast.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Eivion

[NikoBaltimore]

4 minutes ago, Eivion said:

I didn't mention this earlier, but Ali is exactly the character/person i think people are thinking of in terms of what they thought the Hassan gimmick could be. I just think it was ever a realistic possibility due to timing and the actual intentions of the Hassan character being very different. Ali kind of came in a lazy stereotype heel for the CWC, only to change almost immediately once 205Live started up. It was nice to see them change course on him fast.

 Exactly.  And to that I'll add the Hassan gimmick was wrong place, wrong time and more importantly wrong person.    Most anybody can be the stereotypical heel and pull it off to various degrees.  And for the guy playing Hassan he did that well enough.  But I can't imagine how frustrating that may have been for somebody going through those stereotypes to see intentions for a face only for him to turn heel.  You just can't fake authenticity and when Ali speaks about this it's as real as it gets which is what made me love the guy in the first place.  But it does make me wonder what would happen if they tried this in '05.  He could have poured his heart out but I'm not as confident that people would like him then.  To me he came along at the right enough time.

Oh, and Dolfan sorry for further "derailing" this even if it's nothing bad.  I will say that watching Christy/Trish it was much worse than I remember it being.  Man was it awful.

[odessasteps]

More overrated: Christy or Rey? 

[Jiji]

Rey.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Shawn Michaels second phase of his career was basically staying an upper mid-card guy and being a gatekeeper of sorts.  At WrestleMania, however, every match from XIX onward was great for different reasons as he pushed himself to have a full Pokedex of incredible matches with a whole range of different talent.  So, here at 21, he's drawn Kurt Angle.  

I don't need to tell you that much of the build up here, because the fact is this is *roughly* The Best (North American) Worker of the 1990's vs. The Best (North American) Worker of the 2000's facing off for half an hour at fucking Mania.  If you need more than that, well shit, I don't know what to tell you. 

Shawn, even as a babyface, is an undeniable asshole.  Because the match starts with Angle, ready to do a high-flying affair, and HBK deciding he's out to out-wrestle Angle. Kurt Angle, Olympic gold medalist, that is.  Kurt gets pissy at this and does his best to try to switch back to chain/mat wrestling mode, and Michaels is making Kurt work his ass off just to get out of the locks and grips he's throwing at him.  Shawn is utterly dominant at this point. 

About 10 minutes Kurt decides, well that's enough of that and Angle Slam's HBK back-first into a ringpost, in a VICIOUS spot. Kurt is fucking pissed about the match so far, so he beats HBK to within an inch of his damned life. Kurt is putting mustard on fucking everything he hits Michaels with. Angle's mouth gets busted up when he catches an errant knee to the face, but it works to just get Angle more pissed off.  Setting up HBK for a German off the ring apron, Shawn knows he's in deep trouble so while the ref is staring at their faces, he low blows Angle with a reverse kick... because he's an asshole. 

HBK moonsaults onto Angle on a table, and it DOES NOT BREAK.  Ow.

Notably, that's Michaels last major offense.  Because they both drag themselves back to the ring at 9, a little back and forth, HBK goes for a quick Sweet Chin Music, and Angle's like Nah son, it's ankle breaking time.  Angle's got him in it deep and it takes Shawn a full minute or so to finally drag himself to the rope to break. (To boos!)  Angle is fucking MORE pissed now, and goes back in again, but gets rolled up... and eventually gives HBK another Angle Slam and now wants to show the WORLD how angry he is because he puts the straps on his singlet back up onto his shoulders, only to scream and pull them down again.  

That scene from Die Hard comes to mind: 

Quote

 

"That man looks really... pissed."   

"He's still alive..."   

"What?!"

"Only [Shawn] can drive someone that crazy."

 

Well, Angle decides now's the time to dig deep in the well, and go for the moonsault.  But, like always, he *just* barely misses. HBK knows he's severely fucked if he can't do something, so he goes up.  That's usually a bad idea in a Kurt Angle match.  And sure enough...  SUPER ANGLE SLAM~!  

For 2!   (Look, I've forgotten this match completely, and I bought that as the finish.  The crowd did too it seems.) 

Now we're at the end, Kurt starts monologuing, which is never smart for a heel.  And a desperation Sweet Chin Music finds its spot.  Shawn can't get over fast enough and it only gets 2 and 99/100's.  This match is amazing. 

Oh and Kurt has HAD. IT.  Ankle lock applied and Shawn knows if he can't get to the ropes it is over.  He is looking everywhere and using all of his strength to get as close as possible...  And oh, no, not this time.  Angle drags him back, it's Super Finisher~ time.   He drops into the Heel Hook.  Shawn is now SCREAMING in agony.  He gives one more half-hearted attempt to get to the ropes, but carrying himself, his busted ankle, AND all of Kurt's weight proves too much.  And it's tappa tappa tappa....

Standing ovation from the crowd. 

And absolute epic match that is somehow underrated and overshadowed by the two Taker matches, but holy crap.  I haven't gotten to those yet, but this for any other performer would be the best match of their career.   In fact, here you go, watch it again, it's worth the half hour: 

And I'm pumped and ready for a day at work.  

End of Day 64. 

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

That final ankle lock goes on waaaaaaaaaay too long. I miss the days of Ken Shamrock and the Ankle Lock being a quick finish.

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

I don't need to tell you that much of the build up here, because the fact is this is *roughly* The Best (North American) Worker of the 1990's vs. The Best (North American) Worker of the 2000's

What do you do when a mod is the one trolling? 

[tbarrie]

12 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

What do you do when a mod is the one trolling? 

Just lie back, and think of England.

[PetrolCB]

This is also the debut of leather pants HBK, which really bummed me and my friend out when he made his entrance.