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Posted

I only caught the main event. I thought it was pretty good. I liked the video package of the Bucks that played before the match, setting this up as a sort of revival for the Bucks after being knocked out of the first round of the tournament and being preoccupied by PNP for the last 3 months. And of course they didn't win. It's a good move to keep SCU as Champs for the time being. I noticed last night that The Bucks Cody and Kenny are going against wrestling tradition and not booking themselves on top. They're in it for the long haul they are playing the long con and it's gonna take a lot of time a patience. Seinfeld didn't become the smash hit it is until the 4th season. Becoming a breakout hit takes time if you want any sustainability. 

The Dark Order ... it's getting better the beaver boys joined they left The Elite laying to end the episode and we are gone for two weeks. Hope they can come back for the Jan. 1st show with a ton of momentum. After how this episode went off the air I'd imagine Dark Order asre gonna be SCu's opponents at the next PPV or so you would think. The tag division is stacked but it is in a sort of plateau right now after being the main emphasis for the first handful of weeks.   

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Posted

It kinda sucks that both companies keep running up against some extraordinary thing every Wednesday. I think this week it makes sense that NXT had more viewers, but damn, I wish more people could have watched both shows, especially to see Rhea look like a company carrying star.

Posted
52 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

At some point in time there should be a gauntlet match with every Dark Order jobber coming after somebody in a row

Would love that.

Posted

Bully Ray had a good idea for what they should have done. They should have had the initial wave of creepers and then another 10 to 15 creepers run out after that to just really give the visual of strength in numbers and that they're an overwhelming horde.

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Posted

Oh Dave

Most of the show was really good...proceeds to then describe AEW as being like WCW on their death bed.

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Posted

So they had their version of the Nexus beatdown and it fell flat, I was just talking after TLC how Vince uses beatdowns to get heat on his top heel and get his top Babyface over and how he keeps going be to the well unsuccessfully. I hope the Dark Order does get over but honestly I think it's too early to have a very Character driven tag team in the top. Its like a CHIKARA stable on mainstream TV. It will be interesting to see how they book this AEW has been good while storytelling  so far but this might be too WWE for audience that expect more Mid 00s ROH

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Posted
8 hours ago, Oyaji said:

I'm fine with them pushing guys above their station here and there. They've done it incredibly well with three babyface future stars in Allin, Scorpio (less sure about him), and Jungle Boy Jack Perry. The heel side hasn't worked so well with Spears and Dark Order after last night's angle. They could recover the DO from this misstep but I don't think rushing into a feud with the top guys is where they need to be unless Page is actually joining them. It would fit character wise with what he's been doing but the crowd loves them some cowboy shit. 

You can't say they have pushed someone incredibly well and then change your mind mid-sentence.  Scorpio was filler, he's back to being a tag team guy now.  I agree they have something in Allin and Perry, but they've got to do something with Jungle Boy NOW because this whole win-loss record thing makes him look like a total loser.  And he has to win now, and a lot, for it to even make him average.

Posted

The mini push he received was well executed. I'm less sure about the performer's ability to maintain that on his own merit. You could commit a lot of time and resources to SCU as an act and it wouldn't be much better than where they are at right now. 

Posted
5 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

At some point in time there should be a gauntlet match with every Dark Order jobber coming after somebody in a row

Kenny Omega doing that against the Dark Order like Manami Toyota did against the AJW Roster would be awesome. 

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Posted (edited)

That would certainly be a way of making sure Kenny Omega =/= WCW Jim Dugginz.

What's Kenny's variation of the dildo blender, tuff guy?!

Edited by Oyaji
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Posted
1 hour ago, sydneybrown said:

 I agree they have something in Allin and Perry, but they've got to do something with Jungle Boy NOW because this whole win-loss record thing makes him look like a total loser.  And he has to win now, and a lot, for it to even make him average.

I don't know- considering they said the records will go back to 0-0 on the new year, that looks positive to Jungle Boy.

If he starts out good in the new year, it'd be no different than in a real sport of "well, yes, this team finished in last place last year, but they finished strong and have something to build on, and now it's a whole new year so they could succeed.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Craig H said:

I was JUST coming here to say something about this. Holy fucking shit, Dave is off of his fucking rocker and everyone saying he's all in for AEW can shut up. I said something about this a couple weeks ago, but Dave is the biggest WWE supporter I know of. I've never heard anyone make more excuses for what is something that is barely watchable and say week after fucking week that it's not as bad as WCW. If I had hair, I'd pull it out listening to Dave say WWE isn't that bad or make excuses for it or whatever.

 

I've been souring on Dave since earlier this week when he failed to criticize his buddy Flair's shithead daughter for slapping around a concussed coworker.

12 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I expected AEW to be a PWG inspired WCW.

Which it kinda is.

Spot on!

On to she comments on this show.  I enjoyed it overall and this reads more negative than it should, BTW.

Good:

Omega/Page vs Lucha Bros (MEXI-KINGS!  CERO MIDEO, MEET US IN THE RING!) was my kind of match and an incredible opener.  I'm glad they're drawing out the split though it looke dlike they weren't for a minute there.  Fun way to stop the shoving match and get them on the same page (no pun intended, maybe).

I like the idea of Daniels being involved in an "old guy who can't go anymore angle."  Especially because that's exactly what he looked like in the Penta match.

The Jericho/Jungle Boy 10 minute thing was really great for what it was.  Not sure I liked Perry having to sit in the Boston Crab for 80 seconds and someone should have smartened up his family.  They should have been elated at the draw, not just kind of staring.

Statlander all the way to the belt, please.  Good job establishing her alien greeting before showing her decidedly not doing it to Brandi.  Christ, did I just write that?  Well here we are.

As @EVA said, if they're really depushing Baker after realizing she's meh while pushing Statlander, who is over, then I love this company because they're doing the right thing instead of stubbornly sticking to their plan.

Darby/Cody vs B&B was a decent match and I enjoyed it but I propose a moratorium on all springboard backwards stunner variations.  For all the shit the Canadian Destroyer gets, I'd rather see that then the Cody Cutter, Lethal Injection, and whatever other contrived abominations are out there.

Bad:

So what did happen to Nakazawa?  

Britt Baker is just not good in the ring.  She's so thin and lightweight but insists on still working the offense of someone bigger, so everything she does looks really phony. And how does someone so light still do everything at half speed?   Contrast all that with Riho who works like a fighter who knows she's undersized and has to work to compensate.  I didn't buy that Baker could perform a single move on Statlander yet there she was.  

Holy Christ, Ross, please get wrestlers' names right.  Also, there was so much talking over each other in the main.  Ross and Schiavone were out there sounding like they were doing a podcast instead of calling an actual match happening in the ring.  Excalibur butting in to call, you know, an actual wrestling move happening right now sounded so bad.  Might be time for a two-man booth.

Ross kept referring to Page as being in the Elite.  He's not.

I don't know if it was the crowd or what but the main came off really flat.

I agree with everyone saying the Elite need to start putting themselves over.  Jesus.

Kong needs to pack it up.  I hate to say it but if her back is so shot that she's just late-career Andre where she's just lumbering in and doing angles, and matches are one move squashes with jobbers bouncing off her, there's no point.  How can they pay off this angle in any satisfactory way if she can't go?

 

 

Edited by Technico Support
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Craig H said:

Oh for fucks sake, now Meltzer is saying Omega is WCW Jim Duggan.

I fail to see the comparison especially since Omega has a zillion moves, half a zillion of which are finishers, while Jim Duggan pretty much has a punch, a body slam and maybe a clothesline to work with.

Oh, silly me.  I forgot that damned hip toss out of the corner.

Edited by J.T.
Posted

He said Omega is like Jim Duggan in that he get pops from the live crowd, but never draws a single rating point. Or something.

Posted
9 hours ago, Craig H said:

Oh for fucks sake, now Meltzer is saying Omega is WCW Jim Duggan.

Man, I really don't like Omega and doubt his drawing power and that's the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen.

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Posted
Quote

The unselfish nature of the Vice Presidents has been a real negative when it comes to creating superstars. Yes, they will always remain over to the paying audience, but when WCW was going down the tubes, the dwindling paying audience would go crazy for the stars they paid to see that could no longer sell tickets and draw ratings.

Kenny Omega was pinned in the opener, which, given the storyline, was fine, but I know a lot of people who also have lost interest in him as a top guy because he’s lost too often and doesn’t feel special. But then, he got beat down again in a backstage brawl, and got beat down again in an end of the show brawl.

He’s become WCW Jim Duggan, obviously a far better performer, in the sense he’s a charismatic guy who the live audience loves to see and is a star, but is booked in a way that he means nothing for ratings or attendance. Even Eric Bischoff used to tell me that one of the things you learned when studying ratings (and I was doing detailed research in that period) is that no matter how loud a pop Jim Duggan gets live, it means nothing for ratings.

Okay, so he's quoting something Bischoff said and used Duggan as an example, and now Meltzer is using that as a metaphor for Kenny Omega. But... still. I think @MORELOCK said it best - Meltzer's value is in being a wrestling historian, and nobody should put stock into his opinion on things like this, or matches, or whatever.

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Posted
30 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I fail to see the comparison especially since Omega has a zillion moves, half a zillion of which are finishers, while Jim Duggan pretty much has a punch, a body slam and maybe a clothesline to work with.

Oh, silly me.  I forgot that damned hip toss out of the corner.


Even sillier - you forgot the "Old Glory" Knee Drop!

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Casey said:

Okay, so he's quoting something Bischoff said and used Duggan as an example, and now Meltzer is using that as a metaphor for Kenny Omega. But... still. I think @MORELOCK said it best - Meltzer's value is in being a wrestling historian, and nobody should put stock into his opinion on things like this, or matches, or whatever.

At the same time Meltzer is spot on with other opinion pieces. In this case and in the case of describing AEW as late stage WCW where they're driving away viewers, he's so completely out there.

Posted
24 minutes ago, Casey said:

He said Omega is like Jim Duggan in that he get pops from the live crowd, but never draws a single rating point. Or something.

So who is the guy in AEW that isn't Jim Duggan then?  Like have they found people who they have seen the needle move up on.  Probably Jericho and Moxley

 

Posted

How do you judge that, though? Ratings breakdowns by the quarter hour from a select few homes in America that are watching wrestling on Wednesday nights with a Neilson box? I guess that's the other area that Meltzer excels in, but I rarely read those reports. But here's one from this week, talking about NXT and AEW's shows and who lost/gained viewers.

Quote

 

NXT opened big with 977,000 viewers in the first quarter for Adam Cole vs. Finn Balor, which was the biggest thing of the night and by a huge margin. Baszler vs. Ripley was not even close if you’re looking at what drew the audience. Adam Page & Kenny Omega vs. Pentagon Jr. & Rey Fenix did 689,000 viewers against it.

In the second quarter, the finish of Cole vs. Balor and post match lost 104,000 viewers while the finish of the AEW tag match and post-match brawl gained 2,000 viewers.

In the third quarter, Killian Dain vs. Damien Priest 84,000 viewers. Cody & Darby Allin vs. The Butcher & The Blade gained 11,000 viewers. It was still a 789,000 to 703,000 edge for NXT.

In the fourth quarter, Kushida vs. Cameron Grimes lost 25,000 viewers while Awesome Kong vs. Miranda Alize lost 57,000 viewers.

The only quarter AEW won was the fifth.

The ending of Grimes vs. Kushida and beginning of Io Shirai vs. Santana Garrett lost 32,000 viewers. Chris Jericho vs. Jungle Boy gained 135,000 viewers and AEW won 780,000 to 732,000.

In quarter six, the ending of Shirai vs. Garrett and Pete Dunne vs. Travis Banks gained 34,000 viewers, likely the switch back from NXT viewers who wanted to see the Jericho match. AEW lost 113,000 viewers taking two long commercial breaks and interviews.

In quarter seven, NXT lost 100,000 viewers for Dunne vs. Banks and AEW lost 29,000 viewers for Kris Statlander vs. Britt Baker.

The main event battle saw Baszler vs. Ripley gain 38,000 viewers to 725,000 while the Young Bucks vs. SCU lost 3,000 viewers to 645,000.

The overrun gained 145,000 for the Baszler vs. Ripley, which is usual levels of gain.

 

 

Posted

I have to say that people bitching online about even the concept of Kris Statlander as this alien character is why all of this "we need a real alternative to WWE"  talk was just noise that a good portion of people didn't really believe.     

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