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Dolfan in NYC

I Said, Hey... What's Going On?

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23 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

I have a friend who works for the local NPR affiliate. He went over to Fishtown to report on what was happening. The Old Fishtown guys caught him recording and jumped him. Thankfully, it wasn't anything major. His eye got swelled up and I think he has a broken nose. His girlfriend jumped on top of him and made all kinds of noise which kept these goons from really doing some damage. But no concussion and he was out of the hospital after one night. 

If you're talking about the person I think you are, I was trying to follow the situation in Fishtown that night and he was putting out a lot of worthwhile updates. Cheers to him for a job well done and from the bottom of my heart fuck the guys who did that to him. 

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Posted (edited)

There’s an autonomous zone in Capitol Hill in Seattle, and the cops have abandoned their precinct and taken shelter in a Safeway store. Protesters have barricaded themselves in, for SIX BLOCKS, and have armed protesters patrolling the “border” of what they’re calling Free Capitol Hill.

This. Is. Amazing.

EDIT: Oh, and they stormed the City Hall too, and also took that over.

Edited by Casey
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My 15-year-old daughter organized a peaceful protest in the small, rich, conservative town she lives in with her mom. Apparently it went pretty well, with a few dozen other high school kids, but they got flipped off by a number of older white men. Pure fucking class, right there. 

Proud of my little badass ❤️

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On 6/8/2020 at 6:13 AM, Ryan said:

You're going to eat him aren't you.

No, that’s what my crazy girlfriend is going to do.

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17 minutes ago, Mike Campbell said:

No, that’s what my crazy girlfriend is going to do.

You're dating Glenn Close too?

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

My 15-year-old daughter organized a peaceful protest in the small, rich, conservative town she lives in with her mom. Apparently it went pretty well, with a few dozen other high school kids, but they got flipped off by a number of older white men. Pure fucking class, right there. 

Proud of my little badass ❤️

In my area, a 60 year old white guy attacked some teenagers who were posting flyers.  I'm glad they got him.  Old white guys are going nuts right now (full disclosure, I'm a middle aged white guy).

I saw a story on the news last night praising a black cop in DC for conducting a class on how young black men should act when stopped by police.  Rule 1 was "do not escalate."  I understand the practicality of it but this just makes me sick.  It's like holding a class for women in bad relationships to teach them how not to get hit.  "Rule 1: make sure dinner is on the table and don't talk back."  How about teaching the cops how not to be lunatics instead?  Philando Castile didn't escalate.  He literally told the cop "I have a licensed firearm in the car" and Barney Fife over there fucking executed him on the spot.  Breonna Taylor didn't escalate.  She was SLEEPING. 

Is this cop a racist who thinks African Americans by nature just don't know how to act right?  Or does he understand that the cops are racist who see every black person as a threat but he's thrown up his hands, given up, and decided it's easier to teach blacks to lie down and take it instead of trying to change the culture?  It's one or the other and it just fucking sucks that this cop has to teach people how to try to stay alive in a horrendously flawed system instead of working to change it.

Edited by Technico Support
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Is this cop a racist who thinks African Americans by nature just don't know how to act right?  

Oh you know us black dudes.  We can't behave and we have super strength and high pain thresholds so only tasers set on maximum charge or bullets will work on us.

On the real though, I don't know a black father who hasn't had "the talk" with his kids and that includes me.  The Talk for us isn't about sex, though.  It's about how to not get yourself killed by the fucking cops while you are out and about.  It was heartbreaking to tell my near valedictorian daughter that she needs to watch herself around police for just being black.  The Talk has had to change over the years, though.

Philado Castille changed The Talk because it proved that you can be 100% compliant and respectful and still not make it home alive.

Breonna Taylor changed The Talk because it proved that bad shit can even happen to our women and young girls.

Freddie Gray changed The Talk because it proved that white cops aren't the only ones that will put you in a body bag.

I don't think that all white cops are racists, but I do believe that cops in general tend to think that they are immune from the consequences of bad deeds and that's why things like what happened to George Floyd happen with brazen impunity and why other policemen fail to intervene when they see shit going down.

I am a Dostoevsky man, so I believe that a society is judged by how we treat the worst of us and the least of us and right now, we're reaching brand new lows.

We won't even begin to talk about dirty cops.  That is a whole different rant.

Edited by J.T.
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Casey said:

There’s an autonomous zone in Capitol Hill in Seattle, and the cops have abandoned their precinct and taken shelter in a Safeway store. Protesters have barricaded themselves in, for SIX BLOCKS, and have armed protesters patrolling the “border” of what they’re calling Free Capitol Hill.

This. Is. Amazing.

EDIT: Oh, and they stormed the City Hall too, and also took that over.

And things appear to be going really, really well so far.

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Image used because said Twitter account has now locked itself down.

Edited by Gonzo

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When I was 17 I got pulled over in a small town that is surrounded by Austin but technically separate.  It's wealthy and at least back then was whiter than white.  I was passing through late at night on my way to drop my girlfriend off, and got caught maybe 10 miles over the speed limit.  The cop was, and I'm being generous here, an idiot.  Tried to tell me I didn't have a driver's license because I had a dual motorcycle/driver's license.  After about 30 minutes of bullshit he gave up, ticketed me for speeding, and pissed off.  

When I got back in the truck, my girlfriend's first words were something like "Damn, I though you two were gonna get in a fight".  Apparently I must've been pretty aggressive in my arguments, probably stupidly so.

I've thought about that night a lot the last two weeks, and how it might've gone differently if I hadn't been the stereotypical all American white kid with a blonde girl in the passenger seat.  

Now I've got a five year old son who is going to need the Hispanic version of talk at some point, probably with the additional "you're giant, and people are afraid of folks your size" bit.  I'll do part of it, but as my wife pointed out last night some of it needs to come from somebody has experienced the things I never will. 

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My dad was an assistant DA for 30 years, for about 20 of those he was the chief trial attorney.  He prosecuted everything from minor assaults to capital murder and worked with the police daily.

When I was about 12 he sat me down and talked to me about how to deal with the police.  You know what he told me?  Don't trust the cops.  Some might be good people and some might be bad, but you should never assume they're on your side or are trying to help you.  Be respectful and polite so you don't give them any excuses, but don't say a thing without a lawyer or let them search anything without a warrant.

This was to a tiny, non-threatening white kid who shared a very distinctive last name with someone all the cops knew.

My older brother, who is black, got a very different and even more intense talk.

I've got some complicated feelings now about my dad's career (as does he) but he had very few illusions about who he was working with.

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Posted (edited)

I'm lily-white in lily whiteland and every cop who's ever pulled me over has done it without cause and/or been a total fucking dickhead who just outright lied to me several times. Only had one speeding ticket I deserved, the other 4 or so times were just random as hell because my car was there situations. Like, headlight goes out while at work(worked closing shift at a video store), cop pulls me over immediately after I drop a co-worker off. You saw people driving around with one headlight all the time back then. Acts like I should have gotten a new one from an auto parts store at 2 am somehow.

The last time I got pulled over the cop lied to me about 5 times which I won't forget since I'm always sober and don't like being asked if I had been drinking by someone looking for a collar. When you don't even get a ticket or a warning, you know there was an ulterior motive to pulling you over. We are the land of drunken idiots after all. If I wasn't a white guy, with my views on cops and short temper(back then), I'd probably have been thrown in jail even if I didn't do anything. Disorderly conduct! Etc.

I fear for my black relatives like crazy when they get older. The racial injustice and disparity has been pissing me off as long as I've been aware of it in my life, probably back to Rodney King when I was about 9 or 10, but now I don't know what I'd do if I was their parents being even more aware of how shitty things are than ever. All I can say is, never trust a cop even if you're the victim in a situation and all they do is lie, constantly. To anyone on here who has had to deal with this shit all your life just because of being born, I have no idea how you can deal with it. I'm rambling, but my point is made, I hope. I'll always have the backs of anyone who needs it if it comes down to it. I hope this shit changes in my lifetime.

Edited by Ryan
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3 hours ago, Ryan said:

I fear for my black relatives like crazy when they get older. The racial injustice and disparity has been pissing me off as long as I've been aware of it in my life, probably back to Rodney King when I was about 9 or 10, but now I don't know what I'd do if I was their parents being even more aware of how shitty things are than ever. All I can say is, never trust a cop even if you're the victim in a situation and all they do is lie, constantly. To anyone on here who has had to deal with this shit all your life just because of being born, I have no idea how you can deal with it. I'm rambling, but my point is made, I hope. I'll always have the backs of anyone who needs it if it comes down to it. I hope this shit changes in my lifetime.

My oldest nephew is 19, 6'7", mixed race with a Jewish last name, adopted, aspergers, and I am praying he never has a bad day around the local yahoos because y'all will have to come bail me out.

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Standing offer to anyone in Texas: y'all get arrested, you call me and I'll take care of it if you trade me wrestling tapes.

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A cop in my town went viral in Tennessee because he posted a Facebook video detailing why he’s quitting the force at the end of the month.

No, it’s not because Black Lives Matter or anything like that. It’s because he fears retaliation from people he has arrested, is tired of his brothers and sisters in the force being murdered “because of the uniform they’re wearing”, and because of the way cops are being treated right now. It’s a big ol’ sob story copaganda thing.

The thing that stood out to me is the cognitive dissonance to state “It’s an eerie feeling that you go anywhere and you feel like there’s a person following you.” Then he talks about how being married to a cop is one of the hardest jobs in the world because they might not even come home. You mean, like what black people face every day? You wear a uniform you can take off - they can’t shed their skin.

This dude can get fucked, for real.

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Posted (edited)

What happens with Seattle's autonomous zone will be fascinating. There are contrasting stories about the businesses in the area, with claims of extortion meanwhile some giving out free food and doing just fine. Images of protesters watching documentaries on the street and listening to speeches, while there are claims of a "warlord" policing the perimeter with a gun. It's almost like this is a diverse group and shit isn't morally simplistic. BUT HOW DOES THE NEWS REPORT SUCH A PERPLEXITY? Edit: they largely don't. Not a lot on it, shockingly.

Also, don't watch the video of the protester getting hit in the head by a statue being torn down in Richmond. Fuck. That is so fucked up and they gotta be smarter about that shit.  

Edited by Oyaji
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23 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

What happens with Seattle's autonomous zone will be fascinating.  

Will it be? Seems like it's a well-established tactic for law enforcement to pull back and let shit get weird enough that the public turns against the movement, agitators or not, and then they sweep in and crack skulls. This seems like just that. 

You also mentioned the media coverage of this. I have a lot of thoughts about this being a propagandist wet-dream and a potential massive distraction in favor of bad actors, but I'm not sure how into it I ought to get. But the lack of reporting is by design. 

I worry this thing is going to be used as a bludgeon. 

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I know where you're coming from but if 99% of the people in there are peaceful and it lasts a bit, then there's a chance it doesn't end with your scenario. Pretty much everything else ends with police violence, yeah. Even the Twitter feed on that topic is almost all outraged conservatives saying this is what happens without law and order, blah blah blah. Definitely propped up as what could happen even though it seems mostly fine to this point with one or two shitheads.

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I wish I shared your optimism. Even if people are 99% peaceful, they're dealing with adversaries who've taken the posture that they're at war for their livelihoods. And the media and the pundit class at large seem like they're already tired of engaging with the protests or the demands of activists and have gone back to business as usual. The outraged conservatives you mention are linking to fresh articles about the autonomous zone that include pictures of protests with burning cop cars from a week+ ago. And that's just the start. I have zero faith this ends well for some of those people still on the street there, and I'm scared for them. 

I hope you're right and this doesn't end with the scenario I laid out. But I unfortunately expect the worst. 

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I’m pretty sure Free Capitol Hill is armed as well. So it likely won’t end up being good for anyone if it goes that way.

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10 minutes ago, Casey said:

I’m pretty sure Free Capitol Hill is armed as well. So it likely won’t end up being good for anyone if it goes that way.

That'd be putting David's sling to the test. But you're right in saying it won't be good for anyone. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Ryan said:

When you don't even get a ticket or a warning, you know there was an ulterior motive to pulling you over.

THIS RIGHT HERE.

I got pulled over making a left on green a few months ago and the cop told me it was red.  It's a turn I make every singe weekday so I knew it was green.   Even though I argued with him (THAT is white privilege -- I didn't get shot or arrested for arguing), he didn't give me a ticket.  Quite obviously, he was just on a fishing expedition.

I can't even remember the last time I was pulled over for something even approaching justified.  Twice I've been pulled over for speeding on 4-5 lane roads with nobody else on the road, once at 9-10 at night, once at 5 in the morning.  Like who the fuck was I endangering?

When I went to traffic court, I was really struck by the militarization of police.  Every cop who came in was bald or sporting a high and tight, had a very obvious and blocky semiautomatic (Glock?), wore their black vest on the outside with more pouches than a Rob Liefeld comic, combat boots, the whole deal.  How are you supposed to gain trust instead of fear when you look like an occupying force?  When did every cop, even traffic cops, start dressing like the SWAT team?  When I was a kid, the cops literally walked a beat in my neighborhood (East Baltimore).  They wore regular pants, cop hat, white button up shirt with a discreet white vest under it, and a more low profile revolver.  They talked to people in the neighborhood.  You knew them and they knew you.  Not anymore.  The whole role has changed.

Edited by Technico Support
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Posted (edited)

Sadly the militarization of the police might be a necessary evil given that private citizens these days may be armed with God knows what since El Presidente is all about protecting 4th Amendment rights.  We're not even talking about the firearms that harden criminals may be packing.  We're talking about regular people rocking Bushmasters with bumper stocks or kids going to shoot up a school armed with burst fire nines.. 

Shit that was purchased legally...

I know I don't want to be the cop that rolls up on a domestic disturbance call to find some asshole hopped up on PCP armed with an AR-15 running around shooting shit to pieces and I'm just armed with a fucking Glock and a vest that's only rated for small arms.

But yeah, I work with soldiers and if you are trained for war, everyone is an adversary and your job is to kill them.  Arguably it's that mentality that has cops thinking that lethal force is the go-to solution for nearly every problem. 

I don't envy them though, because the fog of war is a mother fucker and people with bad judgement have even worse judgment when they're under fire.   That is something only intensive training can overcome, but when do these guys have time to train when they are saddled with generating revenue for localities by writing tickets or working ungodly hours?

Taking the toxicity out of culture not an easy problem to solve and it took some time to fuck it up, so it will take a lot of time to fix.  The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging that there is a problem, so maybe we're on the right path now?  We'll see what happens, but the solution won't come about in my lifetime, I'm sure.

I try to be sympathetic to police, but those mother fuckers make it hard.

Edited by J.T.
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14 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Sadly the militarization of the police might be a necessary evil given that private citizens these days may be armed with God knows what since El Presidente is all about protecting 4th Amendment rights.  We're not even talking about the firearms that harden criminals may be packing.  We're talking about regular people rocking Bushmasters with bumper stocks or kids going to shoot up a school armed with burst fire nines.. 

These aren’t the people they’re arming themselves to take on. The overlap in the Venn diagram between them and the racist loose cannon militia guys who are itching to murder someone makes an almost perfect circle. We'd need to dismantle the entire system and create actual public safety programs or else it’s always going to be packed with cruel reactionaries who think that they’re an occupying army. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, (BP) said:

These aren’t the people they’re arming themselves to take on. The overlap in the Venn diagram between them and the racist loose cannon militia guys who are itching to murder someone makes an almost perfect circle. We'd need to dismantle the entire system and create actual public safety programs or else it’s always going to be packed with cruel reactionaries who think that they’re an occupying army. 

I agree to a certain extent, but that's not really what I am talking about.  The proliferation of hardcore guns amongst private citizens in general has caused police forces to arm themselves in kind.

No normal beat cop in Vegas would've had the firepower to deal with that bumper stock shooter a while ago and every second he's waiting for back-up, people on the street are getting massacred.  He's got to go in with what he has so he doesn't look like that cowardly sheriff in Florida, even if what he packing cannot match up with what the shooter has. 

Incidents like this are rare but they are costly enough to cause police to think that prepping for the Gunfight at the OK Corral for every call for service is a necessity.

Edited by J.T.
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24 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I agree to a certain extent, but that's not really what I am talking about.  The proliferation of hardcore guns amongst private citizens in general has caused police forces to arm themselves in kind.

No normal beat cop in Vegas would've had the firepower to deal with that bumper stock shooter a while ago and while he's waiting for back-up, people on the street are getting massacred.  He's got to go in with what he has so he doesn't look like that cowardly sheriff in Florida, even if what he has cannot match up with what the shooter has.

Incidents like this are rare but they are costly enough to cause police to think that prepping for the Gunfight at the OK Corral for every call for service is a necessity.

I know you weren’t trying to justify its general use, and I agree that any kind of police department is going to require some kind of tactical arsenal. The difference between that and a free-for-all arms race rationalized by real and imagined threats that only benefits BAE Systems and Raytheon executives is my concern. And since the reasoning behind it often ventures into specious dog whistle territory and not the pragmatic position you have on it, I have a hard time believing they can be trusted with the equipment. 

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