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[OCT 2016] TV DISCUSSION THREAD

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1 minute ago, just drew said:

So Stringer is Vontaze Burfict? That's....not bad, actually. 

 

Another show like that is OZ. There are reasons to like and dislike all the main characters in OZ. Even Verne Schillinger, who I find the least likeable, is simply playing within the rules of his situation. Some men, like Kareem Said, are trying to elevate the men around him to something better. Schillinger just wants his piece of the pie he's been served. O'Reilly, too, except O'Reilly doesn't have the muscle at his disposal that Schillinger does, so he uses his off-the-charts manipulation skills and survival instincts to better his situation. Even the staff is only semi-likable (except Murphy, who I think is introduced to give the viewer a POV they like). I love shows like that...

I think the best character on The Wire, and one of very few who have a complete character arc is Bodie.  He is despicable in the first season, but by the time his arc is over I had a real connection to that character.  He was a kid who got sucked into the street life, worked hard, played by the rules, and ultimately realized he wasted his life.  That scene in the park with McNulty was heartbreaking to me.  He was everything he thought he was supposed to be, but at the end of the day none of it mattered.  Nothing in life is guaranteed.  You can work as hard as you can, play by all the rules, and sometimes the world will still shit on you.  Bodie is the personification of the disappearing middle class.  There was a time when doing what you were supposed to do was good enough, but he had no idea what to do when the times changed.  To continue the football analogy, Bodie is Phillip Rivers.  

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3 hours ago, supremebve said:

I'm not above rooting for the bad guy.  I'm a guy who generally has no issue with Avon Barksdale, but absolutely hates Stringer Bell.  The difference between characters like  Avon and characters like Stringer and/or Walter White are the "In the game" parts.  Avon chose a business where being a reprehensible human being was part of the job.  He was willing to do anything to defend his place in the game.  All of the horrible things he did were "in the game."  If you go out and tackle people walking down the sidewalk, you are a terrible person, but if you choose to play football you can tackle all of the people you want.  Stringer was doing things that weren't within the rules of the game.  If your favorite football team had Avon and Stringer on the team, you'd love Avon and hate Stringer.  Avon is going to knock the other team's quarterback out of the game with a good clean hit.  Stringer is going helmet to helmet, get thrown out, and cost your team the game.  

"Never on no Sunday man, that's the rules"

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Generally speaking, villains are written better and more charismatic than the heroes they oppose.

iago > othello, macbeth > macduff, doom > reed, joffry > robb

its understandable that people are tempted to root for the character given the meatier role. 

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22 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Generally speaking, villains are written better and more charismatic than the heroes they oppose.

iago > othello, macbeth > macduff, doom > reed, joffry > robb

its understandable that people are tempted to root for the character given the meatier role. 

The "Hans Gruber" theory. I like it....

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The 1980s were full of urbane heels and common man babyfaces. 

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A lot of what is being mentioned here falls under a character type in literature called the "enlightenment villain" that covers a lot of Shakespeare's bad guys.  You like them because they speak a kind of truth that the good guys are afraid to speak.

When they talk to us, and Shakespeare lets them talk to us rather than just stooge around being evil, we recognize that if nothing else they are being honest about the way the world works and they aren't trying to bullshit us with false values and mickey mouse moralizing.

Frank Underwood is the most direct modern example. 

But there is also a reason that, since the Enlightenment we have favored antiheroes over pure heroes, the villain comes closest to honestly articulating the most basic tension of all: the tension between equality and freedom (freedom of the individual and the regulation of the individual to protect the freedom of everyone).  The bad guys expose this impossible choice whereas the good guys try to suppress it because impossible choices don't lead to happy endings.

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I'm in total agreement here except one thing: fucking nobody likes Joffrey. He's the most hated character in contemporary fiction and television.

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2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm in total agreement here except one thing: fucking nobody likes Joffrey. He's the most hated character in contemporary fiction and television.

but id say he is still more charasmatic than Robb. And prob Stannis too.

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I'd say if there was an enlightenment villain in GoT it was Tywin.

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By all rights he should be, but, generally, I don't think so.

Tywin, especially TV Tywin, was the most glorious of glorious bastards

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3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I'm in total agreement here except one thing: fucking nobody likes Joffrey. He's the most hated character in contemporary fiction and television.

tumblr_mo6f7yY89d1qf2armo2_r1_500.gif

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Just now, Raziel403 said:

tumblr_mo6f7yY89d1qf2armo2_r1_500.gif

I've not seen nearly as much hatred directed at The Bolton Bastard as Joffery got. Not even close.

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I think eventually Ramsay was getting X-Pac Heat, as he kept escaping getting his comeuppance.  

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Nah that was just part of the build to his comeuppance. Now if Ramsey had beaten Jon Snow in the battle of The Bastards THEN I think a large chunk of the GoT fanbase would have revolted and stopped watching.

James

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The thing with Ramsey was, he actually achieved things himself. So there was a level of competence about him that made him worthy of some respect. Whereas Joffrey was not only a horribly awful person, but also a total incompetent who failed at everything (whilst constantly boasting of his great victories)..

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2 hours ago, AxB said:

Whereas Joffrey was not only a horribly awful person, but also a total incompetent who failed at everything (whilst constantly boasting of his great victories)..

He should run for President.

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What Jofferey had working for him was Tywin, who was a brilliant mind in terms of spinning what passes for media in Westeros. The fact Tymin didn't suspect Littlefinger of being an equally great plotter was him underestimating Littlefinger grossly

James

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Keep your political platitudes out of my TV thread!

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 0:39 AM, Brian Fowler said:

I've not seen nearly as much hatred directed at The Bolton Bastard as Joffery got. Not even close.

The hate for Joffrey got so bad that folks bombed Jack Gleeson's social media accounts.  Poor Jack got so much heat that the said that he's pretty much done with television and screen acting.

Sad that the amount of venom aimed at Joffrey is really a testament to how good of an actor that Gleeson really is.

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Bull, Kevin Can Wait and MacGyver all got full season pick ups

I am assuming the only time the old people who watch CBS turn off their TVs is when football is on

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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Bull, Kevin Can Wait and MacGyver all got full season pick ups

Meanwhile, CBS also announced that Brain Dead and American Gothic were both cancelled.   Two decent ideas that became meh shows and never took off.

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Haven't seen anyone mention it yet but freaking Steven Ogg showed up on Westworld this week basically playing Wild West Trevor Philips and it was awesome.

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31 minutes ago, CSC said:

Haven't seen anyone mention it yet but freaking Steven Ogg showed up on Westworld this week basically playing Wild West Trevor Philips and it was awesome.

He was in episode 1 as well.  After a standout performance in the finale, he'll also be a regular in this season of Walking Dead -- his character actually has a name and everything!  It's funny seeing him show up in live action shows because I just can't separate him from Trevor.  It would be like Sonic the Hedgehog showing up on CSI.

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