Technico Support Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 10 hours ago, SorceressKnight said: To the fans, on the other hand? He was never "Antonio Cesaro", all of these things were jokes (to the fact the crowd actually bought into doing the "WE THE PEOPLE!" claim done by the guys who were sold as racist assholes who hate everyone who wasn't a straight white male)- all of that was nothing. To them, he was Claudio Castagnoli, the same guy he was in ROH or CHIKARA all along, and he needed to be treated as EXACTLY as big a deal as Claudio Castagnoli was in ROH or CHIKARA, no matter that either promotion are far smaller than WWE- and if he wasn't instantly as huge a deal as he was there it's was BERRIEDED and proof WWE hates them (even if they changed the story to make Daniel Bryan win at Mania 30...what've you done for us LATELY? We want Cesaro now!) I think, in your irrational hatred for indy fans and your overzealous rush to demonize them as wrestling hipsters at every opportunity, you overestimate the size of that fanbase vs the size of the part of WWE's fanbase that only follow WWE. I guarantee the majority of people watching WWE had no idea who Claudio Castagnoli was when he was brought up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Yeah, it's getting pretty laughable now, and that post you quoted is a prime example. Shitpost or troll account? Or completely serious, but dead wrong? I don't know which option is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Serious question. How many Chikara fans are actually out there? Most of the videos I've seen have had no more than maybe 150-200 people if not less. And I'm not trying to disrespect the promotion, what they do, they do very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 10 hours ago, SorceressKnight said: To the fans, on the other hand? He was never "Antonio Cesaro", all of these things were jokes (to the fact the crowd actually bought into doing the "WE THE PEOPLE!" claim done by the guys who were sold as racist assholes who hate everyone who wasn't a straight white male)- all of that was nothing. To them, he was Claudio Castagnoli, the same guy he was in ROH or CHIKARA all along, and he needed to be treated as EXACTLY as big a deal as Claudio Castagnoli was in ROH or CHIKARA, no matter that either promotion are far smaller than WWE- and if he wasn't instantly as huge a deal as he was there it's was BERRIEDED and proof WWE hates them (even if they changed the story to make Daniel Bryan win at Mania 30...what've you done for us LATELY? We want Cesaro now!) It's not a great example. While Cesaro had a long indy career he didn't have the same reputation a lot of the big names had when they came in. He was just a guy who was given a shot. He got noticed based on his WWE work and it was obvious that this guy being presented as a C-level star was arguably the best wrestler in the company. What you're pointing to is the conflict between the fans and the offices respective view of a talent. It doesn't have anything to do Cesaro's indy reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Bringing this back to Roman, it only took the vocal minority to poison the well and turn a sizable portion of the crowd against him. I could see it going the other way with enough people in the crowd being enthusiastic about someone they're familiar with that the rest of the audience is picking up good vibrations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Like AJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph2112 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, mattdangerously said: Like AJ? Actually, remember way back when a small, vocal minority started booing Cena so everyone else just did it to go along? I'm pretty sure that's not how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Is AJ Styles also only over because hipster indy fans demanded it or was he away from the indies long enough (his awful appearance at BOLA notwithstanding) that it doesn't count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I'm going to say AJ is over because he's been by far the best guy on the main roster since he stepped foot in the company at the Rumble. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 7 hours ago, CreativeControl said: What are some of the best WWE HOF speeches in your opinion? I've been flicking through them and they've varied from great to meh. Cowboy Bill Watts was a definite highlight Bobby Heenan and Jake Roberts. 41 minutes ago, JCM said: I'm going to say AJ is over because he's been by far the best guy on the main roster since he stepped foot in the company at the Rumble. This. AJ is having a great year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 3 hours ago, (BP) said: Bringing this back to Roman, it only took the vocal minority to poison the well and turn a sizable portion of the crowd against him. I could see it going the other way with enough people in the crowd being enthusiastic about someone they're familiar with that the rest of the audience is picking up good vibrations. I think you're giving the early Roman-haters a little too much credit. The WWE is just as if not more responsible for poisoning the well by failing to understand why the push was not working and naively thinking that the answer was to push him harder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 My record here shows that no one loves to LOLTNA more than me, but AJ was on national television for ten years before going to WWE. The fact that the television in question was TNA doesn't change that there's a difference between him coming into WWE and Punk or Bryan's debut. I don't really think this factored in, but AJ's indy run between TNA and Japan was really well-regarded as well. For debuts in general, I'm still sticking to my good vibrations theory. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said: I think you're giving the early Roman-haters a little too much credit. The WWE is just as if not more responsible for poisoning the well by failing to understand why the push was not working and naively thinking that the answer was to push him harder. That's true. Although I do sort of lean towards the Political Hit theory that the push wasn't supposed to work in the first place, except maybe in Vince's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I think the main reason they've stuck with the push is that Vince hasn't found a replacement. We'll see what happens with Roman's push if/when the Big Cass singles push gets going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I love Big Cass, but any significant push that he gets is probably headed for disaster. Even if they do the right thing and have Enzo talk for him, a vocal part of the crowd will just want Enzo to get the push instead. They need to make Enzo a manager only and pair him with Cass to make that thing work, but they don't do managers anymore really, which is dumb. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo~! Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) I have a really bad feeling they're going to break up Enzo & Cass in the draft. Edited July 13, 2016 by Sammo~! Auto Correct changed "Cass" to "Case" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Lol. Big Cass is getting the big push. It's coming.....and it doesn't matter if people want Enzo to be the star, he's going to be opening match fodder as Cass main events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo~! Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Cass needs another 1-2 years of seasoning before he's ready for any kind of a main event push. I love the dude but he looks like a deer caught in the headlights out there. Giving him a big push now before he's ready for and comfortable with the spot is asking for disaster. I know there's something to be said about trial by fire, but it's still way too soon for hum. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, Smelly McUgly said: I love Big Cass, but any significant push that he gets is probably headed for disaster. Even if they do the right thing and have Enzo talk for him, a vocal part of the crowd will just want Enzo to get the push instead. They need to make Enzo a manager only and pair him with Cass to make that thing work, but they don't do managers anymore really, which is dumb. If they can let Paul be the mouthpiece for Brock, I don't understand why Enzo can't be one for Cass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 2-3 years would be nice, but I think there is no way they wait that long. I bet the pull the trigger on the mega push by Royal Rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Lots of people underestimating Enzo in here. Saying he needs to stop wrestling and just be a manager is silly. Coupla hatas... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Enzo and Gable can form a team while Cass and Jordan get Reings pushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Technico Support said: I think, in your irrational hatred for indy fans and your overzealous rush to demonize them as wrestling hipsters at every opportunity, you overestimate the size of that fanbase vs the size of the part of WWE's fanbase that only follow WWE. I guarantee the majority of people watching WWE had no idea who Claudio Castagnoli was when he was brought up. I agree, even as a huge 'Indy fan' I think Cesaro's best work has came in the WWE. On the indies he was good but he seemed ultra low rent for a long time until he hit ROH. But outside PWG I can't remember him having a stand out singles run where he wasn't lost in the shuffle. I would say WWE fans have got to see his best work over the last few years and his matches with with the likes of Cena really elevated him. He's a far better performer now than he was 5-6 years ago and the people have went along with that more than "we love this guy, he wrestled in ROH". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 They've all ready done things with Cass like change his speaking tone. When he says "I'M GONNA SPELL IT OUT FOR YA" he says it like hes reading it off a script now so it sounds I...AM...GOING...TO...SPELL...IT...OUT...FOR...YOU. The charm that was there in NXT is really going away now that the main show has gotten their hands on him because you know they've told him "everything you've learned down there, you can forget. That was small time. This is big time. We do things different up here". Of course they would be dumb enough to split up Enzo from Cass. Who cares if the duo is making money together. They only think one of them has potential and they're wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Asking Enzo to become a manager only is asking for him to be future endeavored. Unless he starts looking like Maryse or Lana, a non-wrestling role for him isn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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