Labor Day Raw (2 September Raw for everyone else)

[LooseCannon]

I thought people would have been happier that the WWE seems to have abandoned a 50-50 booking philosophy.

 

I think the story should be Daniel Bryan regaining the title at either TLC or the Rumble and the pacing should reflect that.

[Rows]

It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

 

You're assuming they wanted more than 1 Cena match. If it were a series, then yeah, Brock win the first one. As a one and done though, I thought it played out perfect.

[Ace]

 

Some of the people with a negative opinion of this show have very good points, but they are being drowned out by all the idiots who say things like "randy boreton" and "I haven't watch the show in months, but this angle sucks!"Seriously, if you haven't watched the fucking show could you post anywhere else besides the RAW DISCUSSION THREAD.

BUT WHAT ABOUT REV AND HIS OPINIONZ4U? THEY MUST BE HEARD!!!!

 

 

One of us actually talks about the WWE in this thread. The other one obsessively posts about me. But apparently I'm the bad guy.

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

 

You're assuming they wanted more than 1 Cena match. If it were a series, then yeah, Brock win the first one. As a one and done though, I thought it played out perfect.

 

Perhaps if it wasn't the first match. FWIW, it seems to have disappeared into the memory hole anyways for the most part.

[Jrag]

Ah, I'm an idiot because I find Orton boring.  Gotcha.

 

Seriously, I don't understand the "I like what's going on SO YOU MUST TOO!11!!!1!1!!1!!1!1!!!!" mindset.

 

Are you the one who actually used the phrase "Randy Boreton?"  You can find Orton boring all you want, but if you say SuperCena or Randy Boreton or CM Drunk etc... Yeah, i'm going to think you are an idiot.

[Jrag]

 

 

Some of the people with a negative opinion of this show have very good points, but they are being drowned out by all the idiots who say things like "randy boreton" and "I haven't watch the show in months, but this angle sucks!"Seriously, if you haven't watched the fucking show could you post anywhere else besides the RAW DISCUSSION THREAD.

BUT WHAT ABOUT REV AND HIS OPINIONZ4U? THEY MUST BE HEARD!!!!

 

 

One of us actually talks about the WWE in this thread. The other one obsessively posts about me. But apparently I'm the bad guy.

 

No.  You're just the imbecile who can't understand why his opinions mean less than literally everyone else in this thread.  Even Gonzalez's trolling is above your posts because he actually watches the show.

 

You can obviously post whatever you want, but maybe the Raw Discussion Thread should be left to those of us who actually watch the damn show.  Is that too much to ask?

[_MJ_]

I think both sides of the coin need to chill a bit.  Bryan isn't getting demoted or buried, and Triple-H is better in this role than as a face authority.  At the same time, it's okay to criticize the execution of the storyline.  Big Show wailing throughout the show does reach its limit of effectiveness after a point, and his tacked on financial crisis didn't work for me.

 

As for the payoff we're all worried about, I will say the longer it plays out the greater the payoff has to be for the audience.  It worked in 1999-2000 with Triple-H and the Rock because they delivered on the match, drama, and the Austin cameo.  I don't think the payoff is coming anytime soon so be prepared.

 

I kind of feel Bryan being a dick to the faces or at least not wanting to be helped or pitied is leading somewhere in the angle.  Those segments with Booker and Big Show hinted at it. BTW, is Booker T still some type of authority on Smackdown?  Booker T just popping out of nowhere and giving unsoliticed advice without having a official job and/or position might entertain me.

[NintendoLogic]

 

It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

WWE had to rush the Cena match because when you're dealing with a guy like Brock Lesnar, whose passions seemingly change from one week to the next (WWE forever, then bored.  NFL, then didn't want to waste time working at it.  UFC, then gets bored and goes back to WWE), you hot-shot that angle/match right now for the pay-off rather than build it up for a couple months and it leads to...nothing because Brock suddenly decided he really wants to wrestle in the Olympics or something.  There was no point in a slow-build for an angle around Lesnar when, at the time, it was unclear how passionate he was about returning to wrestling and if he'd stick with it for the long haul.  So, why would you waste him against Kofi Kingston (Keeping in mind, he only has a small amount of limited matches for the year, why put him against Kofi "I Can Fly" Kingston?!) OR put him over your top guy when you're not sure how long you're gonna have him for!

 

 

If you're that afraid Brock's going to flake on you, you probably shouldn't be paying him 5 million dollars.

[Greggulator]

 

 

It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

WWE had to rush the Cena match because when you're dealing with a guy like Brock Lesnar, whose passions seemingly change from one week to the next (WWE forever, then bored.  NFL, then didn't want to waste time working at it.  UFC, then gets bored and goes back to WWE), you hot-shot that angle/match right now for the pay-off rather than build it up for a couple months and it leads to...nothing because Brock suddenly decided he really wants to wrestle in the Olympics or something.  There was no point in a slow-build for an angle around Lesnar when, at the time, it was unclear how passionate he was about returning to wrestling and if he'd stick with it for the long haul.  So, why would you waste him against Kofi Kingston (Keeping in mind, he only has a small amount of limited matches for the year, why put him against Kofi "I Can Fly" Kingston?!) OR put him over your top guy when you're not sure how long you're gonna have him for!

 

 

If you're that afraid Brock's going to flake on you, you probably shouldn't be paying him 5 million dollars.

 

And that has nothing to do with how the story was told.

[goc]

WWE had to rush the Cena match because when you're dealing with a guy like Brock Lesnar, whose passions seemingly change from one week to the next (WWE forever, then bored.  NFL, then didn't want to waste time working at it.  UFC, then gets bored and goes back to WWE), you hot-shot that angle/match right now for the pay-off rather than build it up for a couple months and it leads to...nothing because Brock suddenly decided he really wants to wrestle in the Olympics or something.  There was no point in a slow-build for an angle around Lesnar when, at the time, it was unclear how passionate he was about returning to wrestling and if he'd stick with it for the long haul.  So, why would you waste him against Kofi Kingston (Keeping in mind, he only has a small amount of limited matches for the year, why put him against Kofi "I Can Fly" Kingston?!) OR put him over your top guy when you're not sure how long you're gonna have him for!

 

 

Except most of that isn't true. I'm not sure when Brock ever said he was going to be WWE forever, he pretty much looked at Kurt Angle and said "Well I really don't want to end up like that, no matter how much they pay me" Almost made an NFL roster despite breaking his tailbone a few months earlier in a motorcycle accident and without playing football since high school. He turned down the chance to go play in Europe because the whole reason he left WWE was so he could stop traveling. Then he RETIRED from the UFC because his diverticulitis issues made it too hard for him to train full time. The only thing he "quit" or "changed his mind on" was leaving WWE the first time, which is fair because the guy had no idea what he was getting into when he signed his first contract.

[Ace]

 

 

 

Some of the people with a negative opinion of this show have very good points, but they are being drowned out by all the idiots who say things like "randy boreton" and "I haven't watch the show in months, but this angle sucks!"Seriously, if you haven't watched the fucking show could you post anywhere else besides the RAW DISCUSSION THREAD.

BUT WHAT ABOUT REV AND HIS OPINIONZ4U? THEY MUST BE HEARD!!!!

 

 

One of us actually talks about the WWE in this thread. The other one obsessively posts about me. But apparently I'm the bad guy.

 

No.  You're just the imbecile who can't understand why his opinions mean less than literally everyone else in this thread.  

 

Considering my opinions were about long-term booking after watching for 30 years, I don't believe that to be true. 

[Gonzalez]

It's the Big Show part that doesn't any sense. I assume it was first supposed to be Kane to complete the "Does Kane really care about Daniel Bryan" part of their angle, but See No Evil 2 fucked that up. Then I guess Mark Henry was next in line(Triple H: Attack him! Mark Henry: That's something I can't do.) but injuries got in the way of that.

[alan]

Big Show has got to have some sort of career record for most in-character crying.

 

I think what's happening with DB is they want to elevate him, but on WWE's terms. Like he was already a sympathetic babyface, but didn't get there by overcoming (overt) McMachon regime corporate bully shit, so they're making him advance to go without collecting. Hope they know what they're doing.

[Jrag]

 

Considering my opinions were about long-term booking after watching for 30 years, I don't believe that to be true. 

 

 

The September wrestling discussion thread is a perfect place for you to share these opinions.  Relating those opinions to a current product YOU ARE NOT WATCHING is foolish.

 

You are piggy-backing off of negative comments, made by people who are discussing a show that happened last night, in a thread meant for this specific discussion.  Do you see why their opinions mean more than yours?

[Gonzalez]

 

 

I think what's happening with DB is they want to elevate him, but on WWE's terms. Like he was already a sympathetic babyface, but didn't get there by overcoming (overt) McMachon regime corporate bully shit, so they're making him advance to go without collecting. Hope they know what they're doing.

If this Bryan angle doesn't end with him turning into a Super Sayin Stone Cold Badass, then we wasted our time watching Frieza Triple H dominate the roster for nothing.

[Ace]

 

 

Considering my opinions were about long-term booking after watching for 30 years, I don't believe that to be true. 

 

 

The September wrestling discussion thread is a perfect place for you to share these opinions.  Relating those opinions to a current product YOU ARE NOT WATCHING is foolish.

 

You are piggy-backing off of negative comments made by people who are discussing a show that happened last night.  Do you see why their opinions mean more than yours?

 

 

And the only people who seem to have an issue with it resort to name-calling and attacking rather than respectfully ask me to stop speaking about stuffing instead of potatoes. Do you see why their opinions mean less as well? 

[w. josh]

I hope we can all agree, at least, that Big Show coming out as one of Los Matadores will fix everything.

[Gonzalez]

Kane would have been a better Matador Machine.

[Ace]

I hope we can all agree, at least, that Big Show coming out as one of Los Matadores will fix everything.

 

With the mini on his shoulders. And they have to be referred to as one being.

 

[DJ Hero Morganti]

The problem with the internet is it's replaced genuine outraged fan reaction with lame outraged armchair booker reactions. We've replaced "I can't wait to see those shitheads HHH and Orton get what's coming to them" with "Oh my god why are they booking HHH and Orton so strong!? Why are they burying Daniel Bryan!? Why can't they book it the same way I would book it!?"

I ran out of likes damnit it all.  I like this.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

 

Ah, I'm an idiot because I find Orton boring.  Gotcha.

 

Seriously, I don't understand the "I like what's going on SO YOU MUST TOO!11!!!1!1!!1!!1!1!!!!" mindset.

 

Are you the one who actually used the phrase "Randy Boreton?"  You can find Orton boring all you want, but if you say SuperCena or Randy Boreton or CM Drunk etc... Yeah, i'm going to think you are an idiot.

 

 

Can I say Blandy Boreton? What about Daniel Buryan?

[Kaptain Kayfabe]

 

 It was a simple transition spot, just like in every other match in the history of forever.

 

Which left Bryan laying long enough for Show to get halfway to the back (and he wasn't even moving fast by 500-pounder standards) and the Shield to charge the ring.

 

 

 

Let's go at this from a different perspective. 

 

First, here are the major players and their motives: 

 

• Big Show is a big scary dude, the most physically imposing man on the roster. He has knocked out everybody from Cena to Brodus Clay with a single punch. Show doesn't want to do what evil boss Triple H wants him to do, but his job and financial future is on the line. Should he do the easy thing and give in to Triple H? Or should he risk everything just to get at the boss, knowing that in the long term no good can come of it.
• Triple H is the "drunk with power" dictator who is getting off on pulling the puppet strings of his employees and putting his enemies (or people he is fearful of) in positions where they can't succeed. He knows that he can manipulate Show and he also knows that if he can control the monster he makes his position that much more secure. 
• Stephanie is the wife of the dictator who plays the more human role and appeals to your emotions and "logic." Even though she too is evil and manipulating, she has (not yet) completely toyed with someones emotions or threatened their career/livelihood.. 
• Daniel Bryan is this paranoid guy who thinks everyone is out to get him - especially when they really are. His fantasies have turned into realities, and because he spent the better part of 2 years alienating himself from everyone (save Kane) he has no one who is willing to help. Yet. 
• The Shield are basically mercenaries who may or may not have a long term allegiance to Triple H. But, they are effective and have destroyed pretty much everyone they have come in contact with for the better part of a year. 

 

Let's pretend you are an agent or producer or whatever WWE is calling it now. Here is the outline of the story they were trying to get across in that main event:

 

• Big Show knows he will hurt Daniel Bryan if they have a match. Show is confident in his abilities (as he should be) and therefore he is trying to reason with DB.
• Daniel Bryan doesn't care. Show isn't his friend or his ally - he is just another obstacle put in his way by Triple H. Bryan has already made it clear he thinks everyone is against him and see's no reason for Big Show to be any different - especially considering the past they have had (and Big Show's own track record).
• At some point you have to built to a spot where DB is hurt, Show just says "enough is enough" and walks out. You don't want him to hit his finisher (if he is going that far, why wouldn't he pin the guy?). But whatever the spot is, it has to be big enough to keep Bryan down for a minute or two so the angle can play out.

 

Given all these factors, I really don't see a better way this could have played out.

[Hagan]

Only made it through page  5 of this thread, but there's no reason that Bryan, Show, Ziggler, Rhodes, The Shield, even Hunter and Orton all can't come off this angle hotter and stronger characters.

 

I think people are getting so worked up over the promos that they think that this angle is LITERALLY determining the face of the WWE. You don't have to get one guy over at the expense of everyone else. In the absence of Cena, they're going to need multiple babyfaces to carry the shows over the next six months. And they've done such a shitty job with most of their heels that they need to refocus on gettng them heated up.

[Skelemania]

I thought that the whole "B+" thing was going to catch on. I thought for sure Daniel Bryan would have a B+ T-shirt & people would be bringing B+ less-than-perfect signs or some shit. I guess I was wrong.

[Overly Critical Man]

I saw like 1 or 2 B+ signs last night, but I'm not sure if you want to get over something considered a negative as associated with Bryan especially when he hasn't embraced it in any meaningful way.

[Lo-Risk]

The people who hate this angle wouldn't be complaining if Bryan had thwarted Orton's cash-in attempt at Summerslam and subsequently kicked the shit out of him on every Raw and Smackdown while verbally castrating HHH in 20-minute promos. See, even though something like that would make no sense whatsoever, it'd be okay cause they watched and enjoyed Bryan's indy stuff.