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Labor Day Raw (2 September Raw for everyone else)


Dolfan in NYC

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The entire roster is too afraid to fight HHH except for Daniel Bryan. No one will even speak up against him, but Bryan is coming out and running him down on the mic. Legends and other authority figures are telling him to get in line for his own good, and Bryan is basically telling them all to fuck off. None of this is Bryan getting buried. Why? Because he isn't being buried. 

 

We all want continuity, both in story telling and character, but it would be a giant left turn if suddenly HHH, the guy who has been portrayed as smarter than basically every wrestler ever and knows exactly when to pick his spots, is showing ass and stooging around for Daniel Bryan, slightly unhinged vegan. It would be actively bad booking if Bryan had come out on top for the past three weeks. Any time he has had the odds even, he has destroyed people. This includes Big Show last night, who threw himself around like a 500 lb Seth Rollins for 10 minutes. 

 

Just because we all remember watching VHS tapes of Bryan fighting John Walters and Michael Shane doesn't mean he should be beating up 5 dudes at once every week leading up to the PPV at which he is the underdog babyface. 

 

But to be fair, a lot of people are saying that he should be getting beaten down and the roster should be put in their place - just not as poorly as it's been done so far. You can agree with the story and still hate the storytelling. Specific to last night, for example, and as others have pointed out already: either book Bryan as Show's equal instead of a guy with no chance once Show starts trying to fight him, or have Show refuse to fight at all and try to lie down for Bryan. Then end RAW the same way. Still a beatdown, still stacked odds, but the faces don't look like absolute morons with no chance whatsoever.

 

 

 

The important thing is to complain about how badly an angle has paid off before it has paid off. That way you can boost your internet credibility by saying I TOLD YOU SO and it doesn't at all reflect how shitty your life must be.

Well sure, but the MOST important thing is to never listen to people who disagree with you and respond to the point they're actually trying to make, but instead just keep repeating the same stupid pithy bullshit over and over again and then fall back on "it's a gimmick, bro!" when you get called out on it. And to make hamfisted blanket statements that perfectly encapsulate your entire worldview while seemingly lacking the self-awareness to recognize the irony therein.
The point is: this angle will suck.My point is: not yet.You can whine and complain the whole time, or you can whine and complain when Show takes Bryan's spot. Why not wait until you get fucked before complaining about how painful the experience is?

 

 

But a lot of people aren't saying, "the angle will suck." They're saying, "the execution so far is pretty fucking iffy, and that makes me worry about whether or not they can actually pay it off successfully." That's an entirely fair point worth a discussion, and it doesn't deserve to just get shouted down with "hyurk hyurk marks hyurk hyurk worked hyurk hyurk losers!" every week. Ignore everyone who's actually, explicitly saying it's definitely doomed and WWE is shit and no one should watch it, sure. But don' t act like every single person who disagrees with you is "whining and complaining" and making the same hivemind point.

 

 

They (We) are also saying that frankly, the execution for the past year or more has been iffy with especially half-ass or continually abandoned pushes. This isn't something that just happened in the past couple weeks. This has been building for years.  See Ziggler, Tensai, Punk vs. Triple H feud, etc. These are valid points, Some people, on the other hand, are so far up their ass with their gimmick that they can't partake in it.

 

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Edge is going to get "Fired" next week, right?  Based off his tweet about 'good for business', I see him coming in and talking up Bryan to a hot crowd, then Triple H coming out and firing him because it's good for business and the crowd will be extremely angry. 

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The problem with the internet is it's replaced genuine outraged fan reaction with lame outraged armchair booker reactions. We've replaced "I can't wait to see those shitheads HHH and Orton get what's coming to them" with "Oh my god why are they booking HHH and Orton so strong!? Why are they burying Daniel Bryan!? Why can't they book it the same way I would book it!?"

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 It was a simple transition spot, just like in every other match in the history of forever.

 

Which left Bryan laying long enough for Show to get halfway to the back (and he wasn't even moving fast by 500-pounder standards) and the Shield to charge the ring.

 

And please, spare us the "you're getting worked" crap. If you're watching professional wrestling, you're getting worked. If you're convinced it's the other guy getting worked and not you, then you're at a poker table where you can't see a sucker.

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He was very competitive with and easily knocked down (multiple times) Big Show WHO IS TWICE HIS HEIGHT AND WEIGHT and one of the most heavily pushed killers of the past 17 years.
 
Which match were you watching? Bryan was going all-out against Show who spent half the match yelling "I don't want to do this to you" and when he finally pisses Show off enough, Show dominates him and, after the obligatory fight-back, leaves him laying, presumably beaten, then starts to leave, at which point Shield pick the bones.

 

 

 

I was watching the match where Bryan got splashed in the corner by a 460 pound guy and NO SOLD IT by dropkicking him in the knee seconds later. Bryan took Big Show down several times, even doing the "Yes" series of kicks. Bryan was actually in control until Show caught him with the spear coming off the top rope. It was a simple transition spot, just like in every other match in the history of forever. Show certainly thought he was going to deliver the KO punch at that point, but who's to say DB wouldn't have reversed it? We will never know because it didn't get to that point. I think folks are just seeing things that aren't there because internet darling Daniel Bryan is the one being "screwed" by internet anti-christ Triple H. Y'all are getting worked and it's mind-boggling you can't see that.

 

 

That KO punch is the absolute ideal move for Bryan to counter into The Yes Lock, too.

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That's my problem with everyone lecturing people who don't like the execution of the angle so far. Yes, it's a slow burn. Yes, it's being booked right now toward a logical conclusion of Bryan beating Orton for the title on a big PPV. EVERYONE SEES THAT. Some people, however, also see WWE's track record with this sort of thing. Slow burn only works if the writers and management themselves have the patience to see the angle through without panicking the first time ratings dip and hitting the SuperCena button, and I don't know that "patience and consistency are virtues" is exactly embroidered on the pillows in the writing room. As much as WWE loves to tell everyone that they're accomplished storytellers whose real competition is dramatic shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones...they aren't, and it isn't. They tend to tell good stories poorly and poor stories often, and that's why people throw shit fits when a really great angle comes along and the warning signs start coming that it's all going to go off the rails any minute now.

 

 

This is an important point that the Polyannas in this thread aren't addressing. How often does WWE provide storylines with a truly satisfying payoff? Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt when red flags start showing up?

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That's my problem with everyone lecturing people who don't like the execution of the angle so far. Yes, it's a slow burn. Yes, it's being booked right now toward a logical conclusion of Bryan beating Orton for the title on a big PPV. EVERYONE SEES THAT. Some people, however, also see WWE's track record with this sort of thing. Slow burn only works if the writers and management themselves have the patience to see the angle through without panicking the first time ratings dip and hitting the SuperCena button, and I don't know that "patience and consistency are virtues" is exactly embroidered on the pillows in the writing room. As much as WWE loves to tell everyone that they're accomplished storytellers whose real competition is dramatic shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones...they aren't, and it isn't. They tend to tell good stories poorly and poor stories often, and that's why people throw shit fits when a really great angle comes along and the warning signs start coming that it's all going to go off the rails any minute now.

 

 

This is an important point that the Polyannas in this thread aren't addressing. How often does WWE provide storylines with a truly satisfying payoff? Why should we give them the benefit of the doubt when red flags start showing up?

 

 

Didn't they just give us "Daniel Bryan proves he isn't the weak link and uses the momentum to defeat John Cena cleanly at a PPV?" That was a pretty great payoff right there (that became a new story as soon as it ended).How about every Undertaker WM Streak match?

 

Cena/Lesnar?Those are just the big ones right there.

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They (We) are also saying that frankly, the execution for the past year or more has been iffy with especially half-ass or continually abandoned pushes. This isn't something that just happened in the past couple weeks. This has been building for years. See Ziggler, Tensai, Punk vs. Triple H feud, etc. These are valid points, Some people, on the other hand, are so far up their ass with their gimmick that they can't partake in it.

Right but you don't watch the show so how do you know if any of this is iffy in the slightest?
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Which to the crowd means one of two things: a) They're terrified of him. or B) He's not a threat to them. One sided booking leads to thinking the latter.

An understandable pessimism from years of botched storylines leads to thinking the latter, but it's actually the former - Cody called Orton out on this in the backstage segment, saying "You're not afraid of Daniel Bryan" to no response. Bryan has been able to take out The Shield several times almost single-handedly and pinned John Cena clean before two fresh men had to double team him to get the belt off of him.They're booking Bryan fine. It's everyone else they're burying.
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If you think Cena beating Lesnar clean in Lesnar's first match was a satisfying payoff, I really don't know what to say.

 

Well, it depends on which guy you were rooting for. Lesnar came in and attacked Cena and acted like a huge jerk. Cena, ultimate white meat babyface company ace, beat Lesnar in a really crazy match. Pretty satisfying if you rooted for Cena. Not satisfying if you're a heel fan. But that's because the dude you wanted to win lost the match.I think instead of "satisfying payoff" it should be looked at as "storyline completed in a solid manner."

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If you think Cena beating Lesnar clean in Lesnar's first match was a satisfying payoff, I really don't know what to say.

To a John Cena fan who had just went through a month of watching their hero get decimated by Brock Lesnar every week and then witnessed the Passion of the Christ in wrestling form at Extreme Rules...it was absolutely a satisfying ending to see him overcome the odds.

 

Meanwhile, we here on the interwebs are all too jaded to see things that simplistic.

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People have different opinions & viewpoints. Different likes & dislikes. That's nothing new on the internet.

 

Sometimes, accidentally, I'll stumble upon people talking about music where they only listen to underground shit. Bands I've never heard of. Bands that like play an empty tomato can by beating on it with a broken television remote control & get called geniuses that people just don't understand. Sometimes trying to Google things leads you to weird places. Before he moved to Texas for a career, I used to have a friend where his favorite band was Local H.

 

This forum reminds me that there's actually professional wrestling hipsters...and it's fucking hilarious. Sad, but hilarious.

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It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

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I think slow burn takes on a relative meaning when you're talking about a company whose PPV schedule was quarterly, and now boasts thirteen of them a year.They're doing two in October alone within weeks of NOC. Maybe they'll use the short succession of them to even out the story. Personally, I don't see how Bryan 

can be booked stronger, the way it looks he's gonna have to turn into Hercules in order to overcome the odds and become Champion and I think that's exactly

what's going to happen.

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People have different opinions & viewpoints. Different likes & dislikes. That's nothing new on the internet.

 

Sometimes, accidentally, I'll stumble upon people talking about music where they only listen to underground shit. Bands I've never heard of. Bands that like play an empty tomato can by beating on it with a broken television remote control & get called geniuses that people just don't understand. Sometimes trying to Google things leads you to weird places. Before he moved to Texas for a career, I used to have a friend where his favorite band was Local H.

 

This forum reminds me that there's actually professional wrestling hipsters...and it's fucking hilarious. Sad, but hilarious.

 

What's wrong with Local H?

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Some of the people with a negative opinion of this show have very good points, but they are being drowned out by all the idiots who say things like "randy boreton" and "I haven't watch the show in months, but this angle sucks!"

 

Seriously, if you haven't watched the fucking show could you post anywhere else besides the RAW DISCUSSION THREAD?  Your uninformed opinions are not needed.

 

I thought the main story was a downgrade from the last two weeks, but the side story stuff was really good.  Loved all the stuff with Cody and Ziggler.  They need this big angle as much as anyone and it's cool that Bryan is going to drag a few other faces up a rung.  Bryan beat Cena clean three weeks ago, so I think his popularity will survive a few heel beatdowns, but it will be curious to see if these other faces can sustain a reaction.  Cody stepped up big time tonight.

 

O yeah, I never want to see Big Show cry again.  Lock it down, big guy.

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Some of the people with a negative opinion of this show have very good points, but they are being drowned out by all the idiots who say things like "randy boreton" and "I haven't watch the show in months, but this angle sucks!"Seriously, if you haven't watched the fucking show could you post anywhere else besides the RAW DISCUSSION THREAD.

BUT WHAT ABOUT REV AND HIS OPINIONZ4U? THEY MUST BE HEARD!!!!
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It has nothing to do with rooting interest. Booking 101 says that you don't build a guy up as an unstoppable monster and then have him lose his first match clean. If they didn't want Lesnar going over Cena, they should have had him spend the spring of 2012 running through the Kofi Kingstons of the world and saved the Cena match for Summerslam.

WWE had to rush the Cena match because when you're dealing with a guy like Brock Lesnar, whose passions seemingly change from one week to the next (WWE forever, then bored.  NFL, then didn't want to waste time working at it.  UFC, then gets bored and goes back to WWE), you hot-shot that angle/match right now for the pay-off rather than build it up for a couple months and it leads to...nothing because Brock suddenly decided he really wants to wrestle in the Olympics or something.  There was no point in a slow-build for an angle around Lesnar when, at the time, it was unclear how passionate he was about returning to wrestling and if he'd stick with it for the long haul.  So, why would you waste him against Kofi Kingston (Keeping in mind, he only has a small amount of limited matches for the year, why put him against Kofi "I Can Fly" Kingston?!) OR put him over your top guy when you're not sure how long you're gonna have him for!

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