Labor Day Raw (2 September Raw for everyone else)

[Big Z]

Only made it through page  5 of this thread, but there's no reason that Bryan, Show, Ziggler, Rhodes, The Shield, even Hunter and Orton all can't come off this angle hotter and stronger characters.

 

 

Only made it through page  5 of this thread, but there's no reason that Bryan, Show, Ziggler, Rhodes, The Shield, even Hunter and Orton all can't come off this angle hotter and stronger characters.

 

I think people are getting so worked up over the promos that they think that this angle is LITERALLY determining the face of the WWE. You don't have to get one guy over at the expense of everyone else. In the absence of Cena, they're going to need multiple babyfaces to carry the shows over the next six months. And they've done such a shitty job with most of their heels that they need to refocus on gettng them heated up.

 

 

This is an excellent point, and something HHH/WWE must have come to a realization to in recent months. You had three faces consistently over at the top of the card (Cena, Punk, Bryan) and one of the three is out for a few months. The other one is isolated in a long-term angle with his former manager (which has remained very hot away from the main storyline). Of the next two most pushed faces, one (Sheamus) is also out long-term with an injury and the other one (Orton) turned to become the top heel wrestler. Therefore, this storyline needs to prop up other figures to flesh out a good part of the card. I have no confidence in Show, and begrudgingly agree with Johnny Sorrow's initial theory that he needs to turn heel even though that has been overplayed in the past (and have Bryan go over him in one or both of the October PPV's). I still think Cody Rhodes has potential and this angle could be just what he needs to get over as a face. Dolph has remained over despite uneven booking, and this storyline could help boost him as he likely takes the world title back later in year from Del Rio. Also, while I think the Miz is stale, other people have pointed out that it is understandable why WWE keeps trying to push him and this could be what takes with him as a face (though personally I'd like to have him turn instead of Show and then have Bryan go over him on PPV).

[w. josh]

Given their history, they really should involve Miz in a featured way for at least one show. Either have him be the first (or one of the first) to align with Bryan, saying he still can't stand the guy but it's about time someone stood up to the regime, or turn him because he still can't stand the guy and everybody hated him when he and Truth stood up to the regime. I'd rather see new faces (Cody, PTP) get the big spots in the angle, but Miz can be a useful part.

[Fallacy!]

The people who hate this angle wouldn't be complaining if Bryan had thwarted Orton's cash-in attempt at Summerslam and subsequently kicked the shit out of him on every Raw and Smackdown while verbally castrating HHH in 20-minute promos. See, even though something like that would make no sense whatsoever, it'd be okay cause they watched and enjoyed Bryan's indy stuff.

 

I don't necessarily care that the end result has been the same every week. I would like to see them take a different path to get there. Thus far, every episode of RAW and Smackdown has ended with the same result and taken the exact same road to get there. Opening bad guy promo, they force Bryan into a no-win situation that he voluntarily walks into, then he gets dropped as everyone expected. That's not good writing. That's lazy writing.

[Fallacy!]

The problem with the internet is it's replaced genuine outraged fan reaction with lame outraged armchair booker reactions. We've replaced "I can't wait to see those shitheads HHH and Orton get what's coming to them" with "Oh my god why are they booking HHH and Orton so strong!? Why are they burying Daniel Bryan!? Why can't they book it the same way I would book it!?"

 

That's the internet's fault? I think what you just described is called growing up. I'm not 10 years old anymore, so I don't consume my entertainment the same way I did back then. Unless it's still real to you, damnit, you probably don't watch wrestling to see the bad guys "get theirs" and don't turn red with anger when that doesn't happen. I'm 26 now and I watch wrestling for good matches and to see wrestlers I'm emotionally invested in get involved in compelling storylines.

 

The most intense reactions in this thread are not from people who didn't like the show, but rather from those analyzing other people's analysis of the show. And I think it's great that you like where the story is headed, but why don't you take the time to explain why you like it instead of jumping down the keyboard of those who don't like it. I would swear some of you are on the WWE's payroll the way you vigorously jump in to defend RAW. Reminds me of when Microsoft and Warner Bros. sent employees to Reddit to over-the-top shill for the XBox1/some shitty Warner Bros. movie.

 

I think this thread is great. 17 pages of back-and-forth about why people did/didn't like the show is a hell of a lot more entertaining than the usual 5-page thread where people pretend to be compelled by Broadus Clay/Tensai dance segments.

[odessasteps]

What's the record for shortest time for a raw thread to be locked?

[Victator]

 

 

Ah, I'm an idiot because I find Orton boring.  Gotcha.

 

Seriously, I don't understand the "I like what's going on SO YOU MUST TOO!11!!!1!1!!1!!1!1!!!!" mindset.

 

Are you the one who actually used the phrase "Randy Boreton?"  You can find Orton boring all you want, but if you say SuperCena or Randy Boreton or CM Drunk etc... Yeah, i'm going to think you are an idiot.

 

 

Can I say Blandy Boreton? What about Daniel Buryan?

 

Had this discussion with a friend. But two pun insults is too much. Either Randy Boreton or Blandy Orton is best. I would go with Blandy myself. 

[Andrew POE!]

Given their history, they really should involve Miz in a featured way for at least one show. Either have him be the first (or one of the first) to align with Bryan, saying he still can't stand the guy but it's about time someone stood up to the regime, or turn him because he still can't stand the guy and everybody hated him when he and Truth stood up to the regime. I'd rather see new faces (Cody, PTP) get the big spots in the angle, but Miz can be a useful part.

 

This makes the most sense and would *gasp* have continuity. I think turning The Miz would work as well -- HHH could dangle the carrot about how "he once main evented WrestleMania and now he's on Superstars." Basically, The Miz is told to take out Daniel Bryan so he can 'take Bryan's spot' against Orton. It would also allow Bryan a chance to actually get a win against someone since the Miz would insist on taking out Bryan on his own.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

 

 

 

Ah, I'm an idiot because I find Orton boring.  Gotcha.

 

Seriously, I don't understand the "I like what's going on SO YOU MUST TOO!11!!!1!1!!1!!1!1!!!!" mindset.

 

Are you the one who actually used the phrase "Randy Boreton?"  You can find Orton boring all you want, but if you say SuperCena or Randy Boreton or CM Drunk etc... Yeah, i'm going to think you are an idiot.

 

 

Can I say Blandy Boreton? What about Daniel Buryan?

 

Had this discussion with a friend. But two pun insults is too much. Either Randy Boreton or Blandy Orton is best. I would go with Blandy myself. 

 

 

No points for alliteration?

[LooseCannon]

The most intense reactions in this thread are not from people who didn't like the show, but rather from those analyzing other people's analysis of the show. And I think it's great that you like where the story is headed, but why don't you take the time to explain why you like it instead of jumping down the keyboard of those who don't like it. I would swear some of you are on the WWE's payroll the way you vigorously jump in to defend RAW. Reminds me of when Microsoft and Warner Bros. sent employees to Reddit to over-the-top shill for the XBox1/some shitty Warner Bros. movie.

 

I like where this story is going because it's what I would do if were in charge.  There's something that feels very different about how this is going, like they're not in a stagnant booking cycle any more, but going someplace where it is legitimately unpredictable.  Daniel Bryan eventually regaining the title seems like the obvious payoff and I think it is where this will end up eventually, but I like feeling unsure that they will get there.  Having a legitimate heel who is not a cool heel is great.  And I think the right time to have Bryan regain the title is probably TLC.

 

Ultimately, I think that management just has a higher opinion of Daniel Bryan than they have of someone like CM Punk and are much more willing to get behind Bryan and commit to a long-term angle.  I can see HHH thinking that Bryan is the right guy to have an epic match with and a really obvious time to do that would be Hell in a Cell.

[Just Dave]

Someone mentioned that this angle won't be stale until Mason Ryan and Jack Swagger join the Corpolution, but if Triple H was REALLY trolling about what was "best for business," wouldn't that be EXACTLY who needs to join up? Recruit Ryback, Ryan, every other Truffle-Shuffling meathead they've trained in the last four years, and just line them up behind HHH as the "future of WWE?" Why not play even more into the biggest criticism the internet has had about the WWE the last decade. Force meatheads down the audience's throat until the Undersized Mafia like Ziggler and Cody and Miz take up arms next to their midget king and make a stand for the literal "little guy."

[scraylo187]

WWE hasn't immediately done things the way that I want and expect them to go so I am very angry and want to tell you guys about it. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

The NFC North Wrecking Krue takes another soul.

[Gonzalez]

 

 

Ultimately, I think that management just has a higher opinion of Daniel Bryan than they have of someone like CM Punk and are much more willing to get behind Bryan and commit to a long-term angle.  I can see HHH thinking that Bryan is the right guy to have an epic match with and a really obvious time to do that would be Hell in a Cell.

 

 

My Lord would you stop it with this nonsense. It's obvious after last night that the WWE isn't pushing Bryan as the face, but more like stalling for Cena to get back.

 

I can't wait to use the returning the torch gif. when he does get back.

[Patrick B.]

Legit question:  What do you think would get more PPV buys, Orton-Cena or Orton-Bryan?  Honestly, I'd say the former.

[Victator]

 

 

 

 

Ah, I'm an idiot because I find Orton boring.  Gotcha.

 

Seriously, I don't understand the "I like what's going on SO YOU MUST TOO!11!!!1!1!!1!!1!1!!!!" mindset.

 

Are you the one who actually used the phrase "Randy Boreton?"  You can find Orton boring all you want, but if you say SuperCena or Randy Boreton or CM Drunk etc... Yeah, i'm going to think you are an idiot.

 

 

Can I say Blandy Boreton? What about Daniel Buryan?

 

Had this discussion with a friend. But two pun insults is too much. Either Randy Boreton or Blandy Orton is best. I would go with Blandy myself. 

 

 

No points for alliteration?

 

It is certainly a worthy direction to take. 

[goc]

Legit question:  What do you think would get more PPV buys, Orton-Cena or Orton-Bryan?  Honestly, I'd say the former.

I am probably in the minority of one here, but I'd actually rather see Orton/Cena than Orton/Bryan. I was actually very interested in Orton fucking with Cena about having the briefcase the month in between MITB and SummerSlam. I think Cena is Orton's best opponent and Orton is Cena's like 2nd or 3rd best opponent and I figure that's been enough years in between their last feud to re-ignite it.

[_MJ_]

 

The people who hate this angle wouldn't be complaining if Bryan had thwarted Orton's cash-in attempt at Summerslam and subsequently kicked the shit out of him on every Raw and Smackdown while verbally castrating HHH in 20-minute promos. See, even though something like that would make no sense whatsoever, it'd be okay cause they watched and enjoyed Bryan's indy stuff.

 

I don't necessarily care that the end result has been the same every week. I would like to see them take a different path to get there. Thus far, every episode of RAW and Smackdown has ended with the same result and taken the exact same road to get there. Opening bad guy promo, they force Bryan into a no-win situation that he voluntarily walks into, then he gets dropped as everyone expected. That's not good writing. That's lazy writing.

 

 

I think this is a fair point although I wouldn't go as for as calling it "lazy writing" yet. 

 

Triple H and Team "Good For Business" should be getting the upper hand and laying out Bryan (and the other faces) in a variety of ways, but it is important for them to have Bryan build on his attempts from week-to-week against this alliance and try different methods to go at them, even though his attempts will continue to fail.  You know he's going to have failed teamups.  He could also be shown seeking advice from the people who went through the first McMahon-Helmsey reign or reviewing tapes from that era to figure out how they were brought down.  Just examples.  Do whatever as long as it's different and builds upon his previous efforts.

Edited September 3, 2013 by _MJ_

[Gonzalez]

Legit question:  What do you think would get more PPV buys, Orton-Cena or Orton-Bryan?  Honestly, I'd say the former.

 

Can you be even more delusional?

 

 

Legit question: Does anyone here think Cena is just going to give up his spot as face of the WWE? Because if pro wrestling has taught me anything in the last 20+ years, it's most definitely no. 

[piranesi]

Guys, Werner has been following this whole thread and he has some ideas about it:

 

[Herzog]

The community of watchers grows frustrated with the spectacle of death.  They encircle the ritual square in the hopes of dispelling the truth, what they think of as demons, but which we can more truthfully call purposelessness.  They wish to embrace the struggle of the small against the large, of the powerless against the powerful.  This fairy tale gives them hope as they themselves are small and powerless against the magnitude and pitiless strength of nature.  The world around them seeks constantly to strangle them, to overgrow them, to bury them.  In the actor's ritual, they hope to find escape.In doing so they hope to create a system of order and harmony.  They hope to produce a set of rules that can be followed.  They think that if the rules are followed that the results of their own lives can become predictable.  In recreating these same stories over and over and demanding that they follow the same rules over and over, the terrified herd is able to cast a spell over themselves.  It is not real magic, but the effect is the same.  They believe that if the little bearded man follows the rules of the story, follows the rules of the spell, that he will emerge as immortal and never fear again the random striking down at the hand of the chaotic jungle.  Never again fearing to be buried.But in this instance the rules are not followed.  The company of actors, in their role as high priests, refuse to turn the page and continually delay the release and ecstasy that the herd craves. The herd grows resltess.  They know the story so well that they have lost the joy of the telling of it.  They only crave the ending.  They grow angry.  But rather than attack the circle of actors, rather than abandon watching the ritual, they turn on each other.  The spell has been broken and they are left with only the ugliness of themselves.

 

This, they call "Internet."

[/Herzog]

[Fallacy!]

 

 

The people who hate this angle wouldn't be complaining if Bryan had thwarted Orton's cash-in attempt at Summerslam and subsequently kicked the shit out of him on every Raw and Smackdown while verbally castrating HHH in 20-minute promos. See, even though something like that would make no sense whatsoever, it'd be okay cause they watched and enjoyed Bryan's indy stuff.

 

I don't necessarily care that the end result has been the same every week. I would like to see them take a different path to get there. Thus far, every episode of RAW and Smackdown has ended with the same result and taken the exact same road to get there. Opening bad guy promo, they force Bryan into a no-win situation that he voluntarily walks into, then he gets dropped as everyone expected. That's not good writing. That's lazy writing.

 

 

I think this is a fair point although I wouldn't go as for as calling it "lazy writing" yet. 

 

Triple H and Team "Good For Business" should be getting the upper hand and laying out Bryan (and the other faces) in a variety of ways, but it is important for them to have Bryan build on his attempts from week-to-week against this alliance and try different methods to go out them, even though his attempts will continue to fail.  You know he's going to have failed teamups.  He could also be shown seeking advice from the people who went through the first McMahon-Helmsey reign or reviewing tapes from that era to figure out how they were brought down.  Just examples.  Do whatever as long as it's different and builds upon his previous efforts.

 

 

Right, as some have said, you could have him try to lay out one of the Shield members backstage. Or maybe he hides a weapon somewhere ringside and pulls it out when they try to ambush him. Right now he's the Lex Luger/DDP to HHH/Orton's nWo and I don't think that's the role he should be in. Being small doesn't mean he has to be an idiot. 

[Ace]

Legit question:  What do you think would get more PPV buys, Orton-Cena or Orton-Bryan?  Honestly, I'd say the former.

 

Cena's the #1 draw in the company, so Orton-Cena is the obvious answer.

[Patrick B.]

 

Legit question:  What do you think would get more PPV buys, Orton-Cena or Orton-Bryan?  Honestly, I'd say the former.

 

Can you be even more delusional?

 

 

Legit question: Does anyone here think Cena is just going to give up his spot as face of the WWE? Because if pro wrestling has taught me anything in the last 20+ years, it's most definitely no. 

 

 

"Former" = Orton-Cena

"Latter" = Orton-Bryan

 

I said I thought Orton-Cena would get more buys.

[Gonzalez]

I read it too fast. But nice of you to join the good fight.

[Jamal]

Wait is AJ good in the ring?I usually skip diva matches.

 

She's okay. Best speaker of the current WWE Divas but about on par with Naomi and Layla yet behind Nattie in-ring wise. 

[mco543]

I'd take AJ, Kaitlyn, and Layla among others in WWE over Nattie. Nattie is closer to being at the bottom of the Diva's in-ring wise than the top.