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The Documentary Thread

RIPPA

By RIPPA
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IMO: it might not necessarily be about whether Avery did or did not do it.

 

It's that the cops kinda/sorta thought he did it. And decided to frame him,

 

And ruin his innocent mentally disabled nephew's life in the process.

 

That is the problem. 

 

There's a whole lot more to this than a basic Serial-style "Whodunnit?"

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stro

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Yeah, it's about the justice system, not guilt. People shouldn't be all OMG FREE STEVEN AVERY IMMEDIATELY HE'S SO GREAT. They should be "OMG FUCKING FIX THE JUSTICE SYSTEM SO THIS FUCKERY CAN'T HAPPEN AGAIN". 

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Tabe

Tabe

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IMO: it might not necessarily be about whether Avery did or did not do it.

It's that the cops kinda/sorta thought he did it. And decided to frame him,

And ruin his innocent mentally disabled nephew's life in the process.

That is the problem.

There's a whole lot more to this than a basic Serial-style "Whodunnit?"

Exactly.

Personally, I just can't get past the prosecutor stating in court that Avery was the sole killer (at Avery's trial), then going into court and trying the nephew as well. Uh, those things are mutually exclusive, dude.

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IMO: it might not necessarily be about whether Avery did or did not do it.

It's that the cops kinda/sorta thought he did it. And decided to frame him,

And ruin his innocent mentally disabled nephew's life in the process.

That is the problem.

There's a whole lot more to this than a basic Serial-style "Whodunnit?"

Exactly.

Personally, I just can't get past the prosecutor stating in court that Avery was the sole killer (at Avery's trial), then going into court and trying the nephew as well. Uh, those things are mutually exclusive, dude.

 

 

That was fucking mental.

 

They refused to use the nephew's (coerced) video confession to prosecute Avery because they knew fine well it didn't reflect what happened and was clearly forced and manipulated. 

 

But then they use that confession, and only that, to send an innocent kid to jail for life. 

 

Evil beyond belief. 

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BurningBeard

BurningBeard

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I've found the fallout from Making A Murderer just as interesting as the actual documentary series. This interview with Nancy Grace was an eye opener for me seeing as my sole source of information on the case had been the documentary

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/making-a-murderer-nancy-grace-856328

 

The stickler for me that I keep going back to is that I just can't believe that someone who did commit the crime would go to the lengths he has to prove his innocence, it's bizarre. FWIW, whether he did it or not, I definitely believe the cops planted evidence and my heart sank when his nephew was sentenced to that amount of time in prison

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Avery may or may not be guilty. But it's not conclusive and the cops almost certainly planted at least one bit of evidence.

 

I consider the nephew's story the real tragedy of the show, though, because he clearly knew nothing.

 

Yeah, I'm not even convinced that kid could tie his own shoe laces let alone be an accomplice in a murder.

 

And the press' attempts to demonize them both, yet again, is terrible and transparent as hell.  Nancy Grace covering up for blatantly corrupt cops is one of the most sleaziest things she's done yet, and that is saying something. 

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Cliff Hanger

Cliff Hanger

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The Brendon interrogation is some straight up McMartinville shit, with the difference that the child is also the framed party. I can easily believe that Avery is guilty, not sure I'd say beyond a reasonable doubt but it's a possibility. Brendon was a straight up victim of police and prosecutors al corruption.

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The Brendon interrogation is some straight up McMartinville shit, with the difference that the child is also the framed party. I can easily believe that Avery is guilty, not sure I'd say beyond a reasonable doubt but it's a possibility. Brendon was a straight up victim of police and prosecutors al corruption.

 

It was borderline Orwellian.

 

"Hey, Brandon, what happened to JFK? Please, be honest. I promise, we will understand. You will be safe and fine."

 

"I dunno."

 

"Maybe...possibly, he got murdered somehow?" 

 

"I dunno."

 

"Maybe there was a gun involved?"

 

"I dunno."

 

"Were you on the grassy knoll and did you shoot him in the head, Brendan? Please just tell us the truth! Then you can leave!"

 

"Um...yes. I guess....that's what I did."

 

"See, guys, he confessed!"

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

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This was like

 

"How did she get killed? We know you know, Brenden"

 

"Um a knife?"

 

"Yeah but what else."

 

"I cut her hair"

 

"Okay but what else Brenden. Something else happened to her."

 

"She drowned?"

 

"No...something else. Come on Brenden, then you can leave.."

 

"A bear?"

 

"Alright, I'm just gonna come out and say it. We know a gun was involved. Wasn't she shot Brenden?"

 

"Uhh... yeah. she was shot."

 

"YOU SEE!"

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Making a Murderer is absolute proof of why the scornful phrase "Lawyered up" should be abandoned entirely.

 

Um, yeah. I would want an frigging army of competent, super-vicious lawyers if I was going up against Manitowoc cops. Man, with those pricks, you'll need all the help you can get.

 

"Lawyering up" is not necessarily a sign that you did anything bad. It just means you acknowledge the system is corrupt as hell and you need all the help you can get to combat it.

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Trocar Slush Weasel

Trocar Slush Weasel

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Powering thru this Making a Murderer, and haven't read anything here yet.  Here's some of my thoughts: (EDIT: guess I better spoiler)

  • Was his initial rape trial a jury trial?  I didn't see any jury from the clips. It seems there was all sorts of shenanigans which should have gotten that thrown out and retried
  • There was a Calumet County officer in the pre-trial that specifically mentioned that he thought Lenk and Colburn planted the key in the trailer.  They never went back to that guy
  • The prosecutor was pushing this Dassey helped Avery story for months, then as things got dicey in the Avery trial he says that he thinks one person committed the crime
  • Why did they not follow up on the harassing phone calls she was getting.  Surely there would have been a log of her getting calls from the same number but not answering it
  • The ex-boyfriend seemed suspicious the first time he came on the screen, to me
  • Why is her roommate never mentioned in the doc?  Maybe he came up in the trial and they didn't show it
  • That poor Dassey kid was completed railroaded. He had no idea what he was doing
  • Holy Shit, that sheriff saying that Avery had to prove the police didn't frame him.  Instead of, you know, the prosecutor proving he did it.
  • What kind of International Recording Artist lives in Manitowoc County?
  • Of the number of people they had available to search the proprerty, they let two cops being sued by the person they are searching is crazy
  • It took them 4 days of searching the trailer to find the Toyota key?
  • What happened to Lori?
  • I need more info about EDTA, is there a shelf life for that if it's out in the open air?
  • In his closing arguments, can the prosecutor really claim that if the jury finds Avery innocent they are finding the cops guilty of murder? 
  • What happened to that one reporter in the 10 years since? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKeAhWzUcAAxE_s.jpg
  • That women's brother has some serious blinders on, "I hoped Brendan would tell the truth, or slip up if he decided to lie"  Well, I guess he fooled you.  Unfortunately, I have seen that personally from victim's families, so I'm not surprised.
  • How is all those interviews with minors with no parent or lawyer present admissible in court?
  • Shocker that in their quest to find evidence, the investigators go first to the 14 year old and then to the 16 year old to get information
  • How can the jury vote go from 3 saying guilty to all 12 saying guilty?
  • Was is solely to troll Avery that Colburn led him and Dassey away after their verdicts were read?
  • The fact that he got a sweetheart as a result of the trial looks bad to me

 

Unfortunately, to get the real story, I think I would have to watch the whole trial in its entirety.  Much the same way a 30 minute wrap up of the OJ trial I watched made it seem he was more innocent than I had thought.

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

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I can maybe answer a couple of those. 

 

The juror who had to leave because of an emergency said there were a couple jurors who were directly linked to people at the sheriff's office and they fought and fought for a conviction and the others folded 1. because they wanted to go home and 2.  they were afraid that the police could come after them.  Another juror actually said that in a recent interview.

 

Kratz had some ties in the FBI. That EDTA test was bullshit.  They initially said it couldn't be done then in two weeks it's done..

 

It was seven searches of the home and no key.  Then all of a sudden it's sitting there in plain view on the bedroom floor. It also looked like a spare key because who wouldn't have other keys attached to that and also that key only has Avery's DNA on it but nothing from Teresa who owned the vehicle?

 

The defense wasn't allowed to explore other possible suspects. Thank the piece of shit judge for that one.

 

The thing that stood out the most was when they caught the cop lying about calling in the license plate number and the vehicle before it was reported missing. Seems like the cops had the vehicle and planted that on the property too.

 

Crazy shit.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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Listen to Me Marlon is a pretty amazing documentary.  It's a nearly two hour movie, and I'd say 3/4 of it are strictly personal recordings never heard until now.  Most fascinating are the playing back of hypnosis tapes Brando created for himself.  That and the 3D digital images he had made of himself back in the 90s for preservation.  It definitely has a "What the fuck am I watching?" vibe to it.

 

He hated the shit out of Coppola. That was gripping because you could tell Brando was slipping away into some sort of dementia.

 

Anyway, I watched Let the Fire Burn right before Best of Enemies and well after Making a Murderer. One striking similarity I noticed right away is that for whatever reason, the authorities are completely cool with letting people who have a clear motive and conflict of interest examine scenes and make critical decisions.

 

In Making a Murderer, you had the cop who has a storied history with the Avery family and had a case brought against him who magically found a lanyard with a key. In Let the Fire Burn, you had the two white cops, who were tried in a case beforehand and found not guilty, who stomped out and kicked an unarmed MOVE member in the 1978 confrontation (ON FUCKING TAPE MIND YOU) show up at the 1985 MOVE compound bombing in an alley way to "get people out of the house". For some reason, people have to trust their eyewitness accounts. The city of Philadelphia finds everyone to be completely and utterly negligent in their handling of the situation. Mayor Wilson Goode, who was suppose to be to black people in Philadelphia what Harold Washington was to black people in Chicago, to this day has to live with the fact that he was responsible for the deaths of 11 innocent women, men, and children and leaving 250 people homeless. But no one goes to jail!

 

Yeah, the world is very fucked up.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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Cartel Land was fucking fantastic. Dr. Jose Mireles doesn't even seem like a real person. He seems like a character straight out of an old school 70s crime film. He is this cool, suave old motherfucker who rallies the people of Michoacán state against the cartels and the corrupt local government. If there was an award for Best Human Subject in a Documentary Feature Length this year, he would win hands fucking down.

 

BTW, this also has one of the greatest heel turns you'll ever see in a documentary.

 

Recommended for anyone who can handle multiple beheadings and the like.

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Craig H

Craig H

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I'm through episode 5 of Making a Murderer and I'm fucking fuming. They catch the cop red fucking handed and there's still a boatload of episodes left. HOW?!? How is the legal system this fucking broken?

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Marty Sugar

Marty Sugar

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Finished Trophy Kids this morning, absolutely disgusted, especially at the football dad & golf dad. The golf dad referring to his daughter with disgusting profanity was absolutely abhorrent. Football dad needs some intensive parenting classes. 

YES! The tennis mom was just kinda weird, but those two dads made me want some time alone with them in a dark alley with a baseball bat. Awful people.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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Tried to make it through The Act of Killing (attempt #2) so I could get to The Look of Silence. Made it a solid 35 minutes before I quit. Not happening, captain. Just a little bit too much for me.

 

There is a special place reserved in Hell for these folks.

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jojomellon

jojomellon

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Tried to make it through The Act of Killing (attempt #2) so I could get to The Look of Silence. Made it a solid 35 minutes before I quit. Not happening, captain. Just a little bit too much for me.

 

There is a special place reserved in Hell for these folks.

Understand the feeling.  It's so fucking good though.  The insanity of those guys in making a mobster hollywood film is amazing.

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Tabe

Tabe

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Tried to make it through The Act of Killing (attempt #2) so I could get to The Look of Silence. Made it a solid 35 minutes before I quit. Not happening, captain. Just a little bit too much for me.

There is a special place reserved in Hell for these folks.

You really need to push through. It's worth it.
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