Bustronaut Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Usos apparently don't qualify because they're Samoan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The Usos have never been portrayed as wild savages. You're correct. But they still managed to package them with Tamina in the Samoan v. Canadian's (Hart Dynasty) feud the world had been waiting for. Is the Samoan headbutt and drop racist now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 You're letting yourself off pretty easily, here. "Can I detect any harm? No? Must be fine, then." Did Kamala turn into a positive role model when he turned on Kimchee? Of course not. Becoming the noble savage did not make Kamala a positive gimmick. No, Cryme Tyme were not "homages" to anything. They were sneaky black criminals. Being babyfaces doesn't make that a good thing. And quit bringing up Crush. He was never called "Aryan", and in any event it's trying to equate how a racial minority is portrayed with how the racial majority is. You being fine with Slick because Seinfeld is nonsense. Really, this is a shitload of justification for why you're fine with racist gimmicks. Did you not get that Crush's biker gang was a map of a racist biker gang? I'll continue to say it because it's extremely obvious. None of this is really "justification" for anything. I think I mapped out my position pretty nicely, and you just disagree. That's fine. I frankly think I have a pretty good read on the problems with portraying black characters in ways that would be considered stereotypical, but not everyone will agree. I also think that obviously, stereotypes are more problematic when they are attached to historically-disadvantaged groups, but that doesn't make stereotypes of less-disadvantaged groups magically "okay" or not worth talking about in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Did you not get that Crush's biker gang was a map of a racist biker gang? I'll continue to say it because it's extremely obvious. And you claim to get that it's not the same thing, but then you use it to dismiss other racist gimmicks as merely "problematic". None of this is really "justification" for anything. Minus the scare quotes, this sentence is correct. I think I mapped out my position pretty nicely, and you just disagree. That's fine. I frankly think I have a pretty good read on the problems with portraying black characters in ways that would be considered stereotypical, but not everyone will agree. Like, black people. I also think that obviously, stereotypes are more problematic when they are attached to historically-disadvantaged groups, but that doesn't make stereotypes of less-disadvantaged groups magically "okay" or not worth talking about in comparison. No, but continually bringing up Crush as "problematic" and then eventually deciding that it (along with Slick, Cryme Tyme, etc) aren't really a bad thing is you trying to draw a false equivalency so you can absolve yourself of any responsibility for your decision to overlook racism when you find it entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Did you not get that Crush's biker gang was a map of a racist biker gang? I'll continue to say it because it's extremely obvious. And you claim to get that it's not the same thing, but then you use it to dismiss other problematic gimmicks. None of this is really "justification" for anything. Minus the scare quotes, this sentence is correct. I think I mapped out my position pretty nicely, and you just disagree. That's fine. I frankly think I have a pretty good read on the problems with portraying black characters in ways that would be considered stereotypical, but not everyone will agree. Like, black people. I am a black person, but thanks for being indignantly outraged for me, buddy. I need your help to know what should and should not offend me as a black person. My grandmother loves Harlem Heat. I should call her up and let her know that she can't since someone on the internet dictated for us black folks what stereotypes we should and should not be comfortable with. You can save the paternalistic lectures for other folks. I'll continue to decide what black stereotypes I'm okay with as a black person, just as gay folks or trans-gendered folks or the like get to decide what they are comfortable with for themselves, except that unlike you, I will actually listen to them when they tell me what they are and are not comfortable with and why. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The black stereotype characters really wouldn't be quite as bad if there weren't more black characters that weren't stereotypes to balance things out. The problem is that black characters are almost exclusively stereotypes in the WWE. And yeah, it's a problem all around to varying degrees. If you're not a white US American or Canadian, they're usually going to feed on the ugliest caricature they can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Allen West is a black person, too. You're okay with racist gimmicks. I'm not. And when was the last time you talked with gay or trans-gendered folks about wrestling gimmicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Kayfabe Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I don't like that every smart white guy in wrestling (Dean Douglas, Damien Sandow, Teacher Matt Striker, The Genius) is portrayed as a heel. WWE has a thing against smart white guys.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Allen West is a black person, too. You're okay with racist gimmicks. I'm not. And when was the last time you talked with gay or trans-gendered folks about wrestling gimmicks? Never talked about it with a trans-gendered person, do talk about it with a gay friend that is a casual watcher sometimes. So, I see you've been reduced to insulting me by loosely comparing me to Allen West. Fantastic. What I really love about your posts is that you were writing on the assumption that I was white. You need to check own assumptions that everyone posting on a message board is a white guy that needs a lecture about race that only you can give them. If I had a quarter for every time some "enlightened" person tried to tell me how I should view things based on my race, it would total roughly about as many quarters as I would have for each person that did or said something to me that was motivated by more traditional forms of prejudice. That's the last I'll say to you on this matter since we're only halfway through July, and we're already about to ruin probably already have ruined this thread. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Allen West is a black person, too. You're okay with racist gimmicks. I'm not. And when was the last time you talked with gay or trans-gendered folks about wrestling gimmicks? Never talked about it with a trans-gendered person, do talk about it with a gay friend that is a casual watcher sometimes. So, I see you've been reduced to insulting me by loosely comparing me to Allen West. Fantastic. Point was, your experience with the issue does not automatically lead you to correct conclusions. "I'm not offended, therefore something cannot be offensive" is an incorrect statement regardless of who is making it. What I really love about your posts is that you were writing on the assumption that I was white. Point to where I assumed you were white. Or are you saying !black=white? You need to check own assumptions that everyone posting on a message board is a white guy that needs a lecture about race that only you can give them. Quite right. Assuming everyone who displays massive ignorance about the portrayal of race in popular culture is white is absolutely incorrect. If I had a quarter for every time some "enlightened" person tried to tell me how I should view things based on my race, it would total roughly about as many quarters as I would have for each person that did or said something to me that was motivated by more traditional forms of prejudice. Probably because your views on race are not particularly enlightened. That's the last I'll say to you on this matter since we're only halfway through July, and we're already about to ruin probably already have ruined this thread. If it happens, it happens. We're not debating affirmative action or racial profiling. We're talking about wrestling gimmicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADCAP Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Kayfabe Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I guess I look at wrestling as being a little "off color" (no pun intended) anyway. I just don't take it seriously. I know the guys are put in roles to play, just like characters in a movie or TV show. They may not always be characters that I like or want to see, but I have bigger things to worry about than stereotypes in pro wrestling. I mean, if they had a black male character who sold drugs to other wrestlers, bragged about not paying child support on his multiple kids, and disappeared every few months because he was supposedly serving jail time - yeah that's offensive and shouldn't be excused. But by sheer nature, anybody who has any gimmick in wrestling is taking a character or a lifestyle or a career or whatever the gimmick is based on and turning it up to 1000% for pure entertainment purposes. And that includes any negative stereotypes that might go along with that lifestyle/career/whatever. I'm sure garbage men all over the country were upset with Duke Drose. I'm sure people from Appalachia were upset by the Godwinns, or the various 80s hillbillies, or Jesse & Festus, It's pro wrestling folks, the whole genre is built on stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Kayfabe Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Last comment on this topic: the one thing that offends me more than anything else is people who tell me why I should be offended. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I don't like that every smart white guy in wrestling (Dean Douglas, Damien Sandow, Teacher Matt Striker, The Genius) is portrayed as a heel. WWE has a thing against smart white guys.. What about Xavier "i have a phd" woods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Not letting that be the last comment because it's stupid as hell. It's not about why you "should" be offended. It's why you are or aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Ray Von Erich Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I didn't know where to put this because it's only vaguely wrestling related, but watch a couple minutes of this video and you will see the ghost of Dean Ambrose's future. It is beautiful and terrible and perfect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I didn't know where to put this because it's only vaguely wrestling related, but watch a couple minutes of this video and you will see the ghost of Dean Ambrose's future. It is beautiful and terrible and perfect. I skimmed at first and thought there was going to be a Dean Ambrose figure in the vending machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehabilitated Rick Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Allen West is a black person, too. You're okay with racist gimmicks. I'm not. And when was the last time you talked with gay or trans-gendered folks about wrestling gimmicks? Never talked about it with a trans-gendered person, do talk about it with a gay friend that is a casual watcher sometimes. So, I see you've been reduced to insulting me by loosely comparing me to Allen West. Fantastic. What I really love about your posts is that you were writing on the assumption that I was white. You need to check own assumptions that everyone posting on a message board is a white guy that needs a lecture about race that only you can give them. If I had a quarter for every time some "enlightened" person tried to tell me how I should view things based on my race, it would total roughly about as many quarters as I would have for each person that did or said something to me that was motivated by more traditional forms of prejudice. That's the last I'll say to you on this matter since we're only halfway through July, and we're already about to ruin probably already have ruined this thread. So anyway is Sting turning up tonight? oh and how about CM Punk starting up a band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Wyatt Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Good to see Dean Ambrose's father finally made it big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoffman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 All I know about stereotypes and wrestling is that Mike Shaw was truly ahead of his time. Norman the Lunatic and Bastion Booger were IWC stereotypes before there even was an IWC. I'm guessing he got the info from The New Breed when they returned from the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 What about corpse-fucking demons? That's a stereotype that, I firmly believe, needs to go away. It's giving perfectly respectable demons a bad name.Oh.OH! I notice you left out a cry for fairness & equality for the non-demonic corpse fuckers, you asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I didn't know where to put this because it's only vaguely wrestling related, but watch a couple minutes of this video and you will see the ghost of Dean Ambrose's future. It is beautiful and terrible and perfect. the guy in this video having the same voice as Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler is tremendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraylo187 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 *sits and watches buddy's son be sad that he doesn't think he can cheer for any of the people in WWE that look like him* *reads last few pages* *sadly hums 'This Used To Be My Playground'* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJay Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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