eikerir Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Please, for the love of all that is good, tell me that one WAS the finish. Please? It was. In fact, that was the end of Generico in ROH. That wasn't even his final form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'm usually one to not like overly contrived spots, and I've never seen a match from either of those tag teams. That being said, I'm with rovert on this one, I don't think that spot was overly contrived and it's really nothing to get worked up over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 but guys wrestling was so much cooler and simpler back in the day! No stupid spots! THE STUDD STABLE, GUYS! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I don't have a problem with that spot, either. It's contrived, but it fits in the paradigm of professional wrestling better than the ones we usually rag on. If the tombstonee had, say, rolled through (despite there being no forward momentum) into a tombstone of his own, that would bother me; but in this situation, since the guys being hurt act like they're being hurt, I'm cool with it. It's no more contrived than a good Jackie Chan spot, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Jim Ross and I disagree then, which is fine then because I don't recognize him as the authority on what is good wrestling. We're still beefing about the closed fist issue anyway. And I will be damned if I am going to take a metacritic review of the thing and let that tell me that a match was good either. Just like I don't let the Billboard top 20 tell me what sort of music to like. I'm also one of those people who hates discussing quarter hour ratings and merchandise sales. This is not me being all 'I'm a special snowflake' by the way. This is me saying that this match may have been a commercial success and made everyone involved more dough, but that doesn't change the fact that its a stunt show and I don't like stunt shows. Now I could go through the match but I'm not going to. Because blow-by-blow doesn't really cover what the problems with the match up are. Namely, there isn't any selling, the spots are contrived and the characterization by the workers is weak. Fish and O'R are supposed to be these faux MMA guys but they only have MMA spots and none of the MMA mannerisms or authenticity. The Bucks are sub 200 pounders who kick out of death moves because that's what you do in modern indys when they could use their physical limits as small punks far more effectively. Selling would help them with that but since they have to be so on point with everything, they don't do it. But it really hurts the match structure when the MMA guys put them in stuff and they shake it off to hit a super kick and then a moonsault and *woof* take a breath. Breathing would do this match good. Let the fucking crazy shit you just did set in for a second before you hurry up to the next thing. Not to lump this into the match breakdown, by the commentary of the match sucks. Kelly adds nothing, Corino just hits catch phrases and Nigel has nothing of interest to say and does play-by-play instead of color. Just awful. Too many words. Simply Wrestling isn't and shouldn't be one thing. The vast, vast majority of the people there if not all the people at that show knows Wrestling is fake. So why po face pretend that it is 100% of the time? I saw that terrible gif earlier and actually thought to myself "Oh, surely no one is going to defend THAT one." If that is modern indy wrestling and people that don't like it are trapped in 1985, then I guess I'm making the right decision by not watching modern indy wrestling. 1985 is just fine with me. But a lot of people do. If they didn't then maybe we would having a different conversation. ROH/NJPW Best in the World was one of their more successful shows. The Bucks are a World tested act and the best tag team in the world right now. The stuff people have been saying the past few pages are not that similar to what was said about ECW. So your gif was amusing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 The Bucks are a World tested act and the best tag team in the world right now. Then I must change my earlier opinion and state that Vince McMahon really did kill tag team wrestling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 But a lot of people do. If they didn't then maybe we would having a different conversation. ROH/NJPW Best in the World was one of their more successful shows. The Bucks are a World tested act and the best tag team in the world right now. Even if this wasn't a laughable statement I can see from your response above that you have different criteria for judging wrestling than I do. Clearly, cool looking flippy shit is more important to you than suspension of disbelief. Have fun with all that. The stuff people have been saying the past few pages are not that similar to what was said about ECW. So your gif was amusing to me. You are correct in that what people say about modern indy wrestling is not similar to what they said about ECW, but I only posted that to continue with Matt's kendo stick theme so we could all move on from your general idiocy - after all, this is the gif thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 But a lot of people do. If they didn't then maybe we would having a different conversation. ROH/NJPW Best in the World was one of their more successful shows. The Bucks are a World tested act and the best tag team in the world right now. Even if this wasn't a laughable statement I can see from your response above that you have different criteria for judging wrestling than I do. Clearly, cool looking flippy shit is more important to you than suspension of disbelief. Have fun with all that. Please explain how this a laughable statement as I must hear this? What aspect is laughable as all of it is widely held, displayed and easily defended. Or are you just being combative for the sake of being combative. I don't have one criteria for judging all Wrestling that's the point. Having just one is kind of stupid given all the different things Wrestling can be, how it has evolved, various types of audiences it can be aimed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I don't have one criteria for judging all Wrestling that's the point. Having just one is kind of stupid given all the different things Wrestling can be, how it has evolved, various types of audiences it can be aimed at. Then why are you so insistent on acting like the people who don't like the overly contrived nature of modern indy wrestling are somehow wrong? You can't say "wrestling can be aimed at various audiences" and then act people who don't like what you like are just plain wrong and stuck in the past. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is one of those "if you turn off your brain and don't think about it, this match (movie, song) is really fun!" arguments isn't it? Is rovert Michael Bay? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is one of those "if you turn off your brain and don't think about it, this match (movie, song) is really fun!" arguments isn't it? Why do you need to ask this? Do you really need to have a pretty basic point dumbed down further? Is rovert Michael Bay? This "joke" makes zero sense given what my POV is. Would only make sense if I was just arguing that was one view to look at a match and matches must fit one type of structure. I am arguing the opposite. I don't have one criteria for judging all Wrestling that's the point. Having just one is kind of stupid given all the different things Wrestling can be, how it has evolved, various types of audiences it can be aimed at. Then why are you so insistent on acting like the people who don't like the overly contrived nature of modern indy wrestling are somehow wrong? You can't say "wrestling can be aimed at various audiences" and then act people who don't like what you like are just plain wrong and stuck in the past. I could point out how I've done none of this but it would take too long to recap everything I've already said that you seemed to take little care in reading or reading the context it was stated in. Never said anyone was wrong just more of a case of being close minded to the point of MORELOCK seemingly denying the Bucks are a successful team to others denying the reaction the spot and the match itself got on the night. Which is tragic/insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRV Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I hate shit like that Davey/Edwards superplex into a suplex to the outside, but that forced tombstone is fucking genius. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 This is one of those "if you turn off your brain and don't think about it, this match (movie, song) is really fun!" arguments isn't it? Is rovert Michael Bay? There's no way that argument works for that Tombstone spot. People are getting riled up over a spot that visually, technically, and contextually makes perfect sense and works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Well TECHNICALLY the "kicking his legs out" part of the spot is based on cartoon physics, but it would have killed the rest of it if he'd just fallen forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 So, Scott Hall anyone? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Well TECHNICALLY the "kicking his legs out" part of the spot is based on cartoon physics, but it would have killed the rest of it if he'd just fallen forward. In a world where the Irish Whip and Slingshot are accepted as valid physics, a double kick to the shins to cause a guy to drop to his knees is acceptable. Is it a bit contrived? Sure, but no more so than a dozen other things that happen in wrestling on a weekly basis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Well TECHNICALLY the "kicking his legs out" part of the spot is based on cartoon physics, but it would have killed the rest of it if he'd just fallen forward. In a world where the Irish Whip and Slingshot are accepted as valid physics, a double kick to the shins to cause a guy to drop to his knees is acceptable. Is it a bit contrived? Sure, but no more so than a dozen other things that happen in wrestling on a weekly basis. The kick to the shins doesn't seem that contrived, but the whole allow your partner to be suplexed into your arms, in the perfect tombstone position, and stand there for a few seconds seems a little contrived. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 For all this talk about what is and isn't contrived, we do all realize that the most contrived move in all of wrestling is the irish whip right? Seriously if you can believe you can make a three hundred pound man run into harms way just by pulling on his wrist you can do almost anything. Either way, shouldn't everyone just watch whatever kind of wrestling they like? If ROH is too unrealistic, maybe you should try one of the shoot/work hybrid promotions in Japan. If you like goofiness watch Chikara or Dragongate. If you like something in between watch New Japan or WWE, seriously there is enough wrestling out there to satisfy just about everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Eh, at least that superkick-tombstone piledriver thingy happened during a match. Still better than Dolph Ziggler sunset flipping Rey Misterio so he can get his dropkick spot in during a frigging brawl to promote the Andre The Giant Invitational Battle Royal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Someone should write a "The Physics of Wrestling" book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buy Me a Burrito Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 So the guy in the tombstone position was the partner of the guy getting tombstoned? This is approaching "Jean Loring bringing a flamethrower just in case" in terms of business-exposing bullshit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Or we just think the "modern wrestling" stuff is eye rollingly awful bullshit most of the time.Agreed except that "modern wrestling" is not the same thing as "modern indy wrestling" so let's just call it what it is. That's modern indy wrestling.Touché, good additition.If the argument is "don't take it so seriously", then you are basically admitting "yeah, it's bullshit." Unless you are telling me "modern Indy wrestling" means everything is as goofy as Chikara, which I treat as an exception, there is no way to not view that as silly shit. If CHIKARA is the sole exception then you are pretty closed minded of what Wrestling can and can't be. I just laugh in the face of this. I am open to comedy in matches, and suspending my belief, but RoH has ALWAYS been about serious wrestling, and in a match that people apparently think is great to have something set up by "make tag partner hold other tag partner in overly stupid manner so we can lick out his knees into a Tombstone, and then double superkick him." Is just mind numbing bullshit. The Young Bucks are the worst Usos. Haven't seen the match, because I can't stand the Young Bucks, but it looked at first glance in the gif that Trunks Dude #2 was trying to save Trunks Dude #1 from getting suplexed by the Bucks by grabbing him away from them. It makes the spot not so bad, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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