MORELOCK Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 And he wasn't the top face when WCW was at its peak; that was Goldberg. Goldberg wasn't a main eventer until the middle of 1998, and I don't think anyone would argue that WCW was at its peak during that time. It was pretty clearly going downhill. People were paying to see the NWO, not this mythical awesome NWO vs Sting program that only consisted of NWO beatdowns and Sting sitting in the rafters. Just because WCW thoroughly botched the angle doesn't mean people weren't paying to see Sting give the NWO their comeuppance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libs Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe not quality wise, but Goldberg's short run, until they fucked it up, did WCW's best business and was their peak, even despite going against a white hot WWF product at the time. Meltzer has written about it plenty over the years (often in Sting for HoF "debates" for that matter); dig through some old WONs or WC posts, if you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 And he wasn't the top face when WCW was at its peak; that was Goldberg. Goldberg wasn't a main eventer until the middle of 1998, and I don't think anyone would argue that WCW was at its peak during that time. It was pretty clearly going downhill. I'll argue it. Nitro's highest ratings year-to-year were in 1998. It wasn't until the spring of 1999 that the numbers started to fall off a cliff. And Goldberg's first two months as champion were the last time Nitro ever beat RAW on a consistent basis again. He was definitely on top when WCW was still white hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah, the WWF didn't start picking up WCW fans in large numbers until late 1998 and into 1999. Most of the WWF's gains in ratings through 1998 were from new (or lapsed) fans who weren't regular pro wrestling viewers. It wasn't WCW's decline that caused the WWF to catch up in the ratings, it was the WWF just being hot because of Austin and the Tyson angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Exactly. WCW's deathblow might have been Starrcade 97 but it was a slow death that nobody realized was happening until some time in 99. Saying Goldberg didn't hit the main event until after WCW was on the decline is not accurate at all. I'd argue that once Goldberg broke the upper echelon instead of just beating on Jerry Flynn, he was hotter than Sting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's a long dead horse, but there really isn't a solid argument for Sting as a HOFer beyond fan nostalgia. The argument is that he's Sting and nobody has ever heard of most of the people being inducted. Sting was only a bad draw because of shitty booking. The nWo isn't nearly as big a deal without Sting lurking in the shadows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 That's a fair argument. Sting was never really put into a promotion where the booking around him was solid enough to draw. You could have had WCW sign Hulk Hogan in 1990, feud him with Flair and only gotten a marginally better result. WCW was booked terribly, run incompetently and seemingly had no direction for much of Sting's run. The best parts of Sting's run was his feud with Vader and I don't recall that doing terrible business (certainly not any worse than WCW was doing already). People forget that with a few exceptions, WCW didn't draw ANYTHING before the nWo came along. WCW didn't even turn a profit for the first time until the nWo came along. Who was the central babyface in the nWo angle? Sting. Every villain needs a good hero. You remove Sting from the angle and who is there? DDP wasn't ready, Luger had just come back from the WWF, Savage was a WWF guy and The Giant was too new. The nWo angle NEEDED Sting. When you can say that one of the largest drawing angles of all time NEEDED someone, I call that person a draw. Sting was the conscience of WCW, he was the heart and soul of WCW and he was the man who best represented WCW. Starrcade 97 did gang busters business. Listen to the pops when Sting would show up on Nitro to take out the nWo. He was over as fuck during that time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Pops don't equal money. Sting was popular in 1997. He also only wrestled one match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenbat Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I started watching around the Fall Brawl where they slammed Flair's head in the cage and I was about 12 (good luck telling me it was fake after that).I had no idea who Sting was but I knew the NWO were bad dudes brother. They laid waste to everyone and THE ONLY MAN! Who could stop this onslaught was the man in the rafters. The day of Starcade was a goddamn holiday. We watched it at a neighbors house with literally 20 people, maybe more. Wrestlemania 14 was just me and 4 family members. The Super Bowl was never more than a 9 person event. Song is a HOFer just off that in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Pops don't equal money. Sting was popular in 1997. He also only wrestled one match. The anticipation of that match drew a shit ton of money though. You couldn't take anyone and do that. It wasn't like Sting disappeared entirely for a year, showed up at Starrcade and was like "hey bro, wanna wrestle?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Sting masks and shirts were huge in '97 too. Fans came to see the nWo get shitkicked by Sting. The end of Uncensored '97 is something I'll always remember, is my biggest markout moment of my childhood, and I still get goosebumps when I think of it. His series with Vader is some of the best stuff WCW ever did and he was consistently good-to-great in the ring until the Crow character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 And I'm one of these people who figure if so and so is in.. then fuck it.. put Sting in also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libs Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's a long dead horse, but there really isn't a solid argument for Sting as a HOFer beyond fan nostalgia. The argument is that he's Sting and nobody has ever heard of most of the people being inducted. Sting was only a bad draw because of shitty booking. The nWo isn't nearly as big a deal without Sting lurking in the shadows. Move over Gordy List, the "But it's Sting!" case tops all. If Sting was only a bad draw because of booking, a guy like Luger wouldn't have out-drawn him while working with the same guys, with the same quality of booking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's a long dead horse, but there really isn't a solid argument for Sting as a HOFer beyond fan nostalgia. The argument is that he's Sting and nobody has ever heard of most of the people being inducted. Sting was only a bad draw because of shitty booking. The nWo isn't nearly as big a deal without Sting lurking in the shadows. Move over Gordy List, the "But it's Sting!" case tops all. If Sting was only a bad draw because of booking, a guy like Luger wouldn't have out-drawn him while working with the same guys, with the same quality of booking. When did Luger out draw him? During his heel run in 1992? He was booked as a strong heel with Harley Race doing his talking, that's a far cry from being booked as RoboCop's buddy, The Black Scorpion's enemy and The Shockmaster's tag team partner. Sting's been involved in so much WrestleCrap that the fact that people cared about him DESPITE that is an accomplishment in and of itself. I can't think of a top babyface that had to slog through as much bad booking as Sting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeball Wizard Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name="Libs" post="284694" I can't think of a top babyface that had to slog through as much bad booking as Sting. Daniel Bryan says hello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 DB's booking was just fine. People constantly bitching about it is what made it insuffferable. The second the guy has to sell something, it was like the world was coming to to an end! Forget the women and children, save your ass! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yes, I'm sure D-Bry's meaningless mafch against Sheamus at Mania would've been epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I have no prob with Sting in the HOF, but i wouldnt vote for him now because i could find more than 10 more deserving candidates (mostly in Mexico) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nothing that Daniel Bryan went through can compare to the crap that Sting had to get over. It's a miracle that it didn't drag Sting down with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If people didn't bitch about the 18 second thing, the WWE wouldn't have made it into a thing. The YES! chant became a thing because people wouldn't fucking let it go that the scrawny little shithead that managed to avoid his comeuppance by a couple of big, fat giants for several months got squashed like a bug (as he should have). Again, pro wrestling should be about storylines and characters because the WWE produces a fucking tv show. Does anyone here watch their favorite non-wrestling show and impatiently bitch about the storyline before it even ends? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If people didn't bitch about the 18 second thing, the WWE wouldn't have made it into a thing. The YES! chant became a thing because people wouldn't fucking let it go that the scrawny little shithead that managed to avoid his comeuppance by a couple of big, fat giants for several months got squashed like a bug (as he should have). Again, pro wrestling should be about storylines and characters because the WWE produces a fucking tv show. Does anyone here watch their favorite non-wrestling show and impatiently bitch about the storyline before it even ends? Most science fiction shows? Lost and Doctor Who immediately spring to mind. Also, soap operas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If people didn't bitch about the 18 second thing, the WWE wouldn't have made it into a thing. The YES! chant became a thing because people wouldn't fucking let it go that the scrawny little shithead that managed to avoid his comeuppance by a couple of big, fat giants for several months got squashed like a bug (as he should have). Again, pro wrestling should be about storylines and characters because the WWE produces a fucking tv show. Does anyone here watch their favorite non-wrestling show and impatiently bitch about the storyline before it even ends? Or bitch about the storyline even though they got the end result they wished for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I give Vince credit for pulling the trigger on D-Bry, but let's not forget that the original plans for Mania had Punk and Batista in Bryan's spot(s), with Bryan in a meaningless match against Sheamus (as I mentioned earlier). Having said that, D-Bry never had to wrestle the Black Scorpion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The 18-second thing was fine and lead to the storyline split with AJ. People forget that not only did the 18-second loss lead to rematches with Sheamus but Bryan went on to headline for the title against Punk in the ensuing months. Not a burial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If people didn't bitch about the 18 second thing, the WWE wouldn't have made it into a thing. The YES! chant became a thing because people wouldn't fucking let it go that the scrawny little shithead that managed to avoid his comeuppance by a couple of big, fat giants for several months got squashed like a bug (as he should have). Again, pro wrestling should be about storylines and characters because the WWE produces a fucking tv show. Does anyone here watch their favorite non-wrestling show and impatiently bitch about the storyline before it even ends? Or bitch about the storyline even though they got the end result they wished for? God that was a terrible book, but at least it had a great ending! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts