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AEW - MAY 2023


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2 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Looking at how ROH's TV ratings and live attendance fell in 2019 after The Elite left is a pretty good indicator

But then again, a good part of that could be attributed to Cody, and new episodes of Being the Elite now don't even get a fraction of the views that they were getting 3-4 years ago

It seems Kenny singles matches still draw well on Dynamite, but the Bucks by themselves or paired with Kenny do poorly

I feel like comparing 2019 ROH to 2023 AEW in this scenario just doesn’t work. They can lose the Elite and still be fine because they have other names that people will stick around for. 

The Elite were far and away the biggest draws/names for ROH at that time. The same can’t be said about them in AEW, not anymore. An argument could’ve been made pre-2021 probably, but just Mox by himself is a bigger “draw” or whatever than anyone ROH was left with after the Bucks, Omega, Cody and Hangman left.

Nobody was ever going to stick around when the top talent was like, Scrull and Bandido and Dalton Castle or whoever.

AEW have contingencies in place if they leave in the form of bigger star power. ROH didn’t. It’s that simple.

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To step in on the "why aren't people drawing" point, I've had a gut feeling about this that may not be correct but I'll at least throw out there. There are people in AEW who moved numbers, and Tony leans on them too much when this happens. Mox drew great so he had matches every week or so even when he was champ, now he doesn't draw as much. OC did great opening Dynamite so he now basically opens every Dynamite to declining results (in terms of numbers, not match quality). People always point out the people who can't get any consistent opportunities in AEW but I think they miss the flip side: the golden gooses aren't being killed but end up much less golden due to overuse and overexposure. The individual shows have been good but I think the balance on them hasn't been for a long time, and while it'd be a lie to say AEW has been doing poorly I think they've left money on the table and squandered some of the draws they did have.

This is legit why MJF has a better mind for the business than I think people give him credit for.

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When they announced Mox vs Omega in a cage that moved seats in Detroit. There’s little sign Anarchy in the Arena is doing the same.

Punk, in and of himself, isn’t the solution but I think heel Punk with a hot mic and guys like Kingston, Starks, Cole, and the Acclaimed as babyfaces to protect the company might work.

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Trigger warning: suicide.

I feel for Thunder Rosa. I've had suicidal thoughts for years, thankfully less in 2023. Love to all who do and love to those who support people with mental illness xxx.

Edited by The Natural
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5 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Punk

Mercedes

Goldberg

I don't think there's a Plan B. I'm not even convinced Plan A is all that solid, despite what I said above. Plan A+++ is Elite vs Punk feud but that involves everyone adulting.

Goldberg vs Wardlow might be a good one-show solution, for instance but they need something more sustainable.

I think, if it's clear Punk is not going to work out by Wednesday, my solution would be to have Danielson declare his intentions to challenge for the TNT title on the first Collision episode and then to defend it each and every week against all comers. Then the people for those shows would at least know they'd be getting a Danielson title match each week even if the specifics are up in the air.

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As far as who AEW can and can't afford to lose, It feels like that list begins and ends with Hangman Page. Personal preferences aside, Kenny leaving would sting, but I don't see many viewers tuning out AEW if he leaves. I think people watch the show for Kenny, but I don't think many people would say they watch it for Kenny alone. Page feels a bit different. You could make the case that he's the "main character" of AEW television. He's engrained in the programming in a way that no one else on the roster is, with the possible exception of OC. 

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24 minutes ago, just drew said:

As far as who AEW can and can't afford to lose, It feels like that list begins and ends with Hangman Page. Personal preferences aside, Kenny leaving would sting, but I don't see many viewers tuning out AEW if he leaves. I think people watch the show for Kenny, but I don't think many people would say they watch it for Kenny alone. Page feels a bit different. You could make the case that he's the "main character" of AEW television. He's engrained in the programming in a way that no one else on the roster is, with the possible exception of OC. 

I think you make a great point about Hangman. So much of year one was about his journey, I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue. 

Thinking out loud, I also agree with you on OC - I'd even go as far as to say the whole Best Friends unit -  but there's an interesting contrast between OC and Hangman in that OC has been setting the world on fire with a title reign I didn't even really know I wanted, whereas Hangman's world title win was on deck from day one but the follow-up was very 'dog finally catches car bumper.' Don't get me wrong,  LOVED the lights out matches with Archer and Adam Cole, and I'm sure injuries and uh, personality issues messed up some things, but I'd hoped for a little more for our 'protagonist'

Edit: circling back to your original point re: losing those guys - Hangman is a license to print money in WWE, but I don't know that they'd 'get' OC in Stamford. I have this vision of Vince being 40 years behind everything and thinking he's supposed to be Reverend Jim from Taxi, and making him talk like Riddle or RVD

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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I really don't like Page in ring and I don't like his general philosophies on pro wrestling matches, but I also would rather he stay in AEW than go to WWE. I wish no ill-will onto Page and a lot of people care about him and his journey, and I just can't see a WWE that Vince will be driving until he dies as a healthy place for an anxious millennial anything.

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They also hinted at Okada vs. Mox for Forbidden Door, that would be fun. I don't think they had a singles match during Mox's New Japan run, an interesting clash of styles but they'd figure it out. I assume Okada/Mox and Ospreay/Omega will be the headliners.

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1 minute ago, Kevin Wilson said:

They also hinted at Okada vs. Mox for Forbidden Door, that would be fun. I don't think they had a singles match during Mox's New Japan run, an interesting clash of styles but they'd figure it out. I assume Okada/Mox and Ospreay/Omega will be the headliners.

I'm naively holding out for Bryan Danielson vs. Kazuchika Okada. That's my dream match. I think it'll be Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr or some BCC six man. I'd be down with Danielson vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi or Danielson vs. Shingo Takagi. I just can't see Okada/Mox turning out right with that clash of styles. I agree, we'll get Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay there.

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Danielson has wanted ZSJ for about forever now so that's who he'll get if ZSJ is available. Aside from that, Danielson vs Shingo is probably the next best choice.

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15 hours ago, username said:

To step in on the "why aren't people drawing" point, I've had a gut feeling about this that may not be correct but I'll at least throw out there. There are people in AEW who moved numbers, and Tony leans on them too much when this happens. Mox drew great so he had matches every week or so even when he was champ, now he doesn't draw as much. OC did great opening Dynamite so he now basically opens every Dynamite to declining results (in terms of numbers, not match quality). People always point out the people who can't get any consistent opportunities in AEW but I think they miss the flip side: the golden gooses aren't being killed but end up much less golden due to overuse and overexposure. The individual shows have been good but I think the balance on them hasn't been for a long time, and while it'd be a lie to say AEW has been doing poorly I think they've left money on the table and squandered some of the draws they did have.

This is legit why MJF has a better mind for the business than I think people give him credit for.

Hogan wasn’t on TV every week of his first title reign

6 hours ago, Matt D said:

I don't think there's a Plan B. I'm not even convinced Plan A is all that solid, despite what I said above. Plan A+++ is Elite vs Punk feud but that involves everyone adulting.

Goldberg vs Wardlow might be a good one-show solution, for instance but they need something more sustainable.

I think, if it's clear Punk is not going to work out by Wednesday, my solution would be to have Danielson declare his intentions to challenge for the TNT title on the first Collision episode and then to defend it each and every week against all comers. Then the people for those shows would at least know they'd be getting a Danielson title match each week even if the specifics are up in the air.

I honestly think Rampage should have been anchored with the OC international title defenses just not the ones against QT and Trent Seven

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Omega vs. Ospreay II is definitely on the horizon but I'm not sure where they'll have it.  Forbidden Door II would have been my guess given it's an AEW x NJPW show but Ospreay has said that he wants to wrestle a big match at ALL IN and Meltzer reported that he's booked for that show.  

 

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