AEW - MAY 2023

[Dolphman 3000]

7 minutes ago, Log said:

I think an important thing to keep in mind in regards to the Punk/Bucks/Hangman/Omega stuff is that no one here knows anything that they haven't heard third, fourth, fifth or more-hand from someone probably reporting it at least second-hand. And even then, the news would have come from a very self-interested place. Now, I'm not saying it's not fun to speculate, but let's not take any of this as fact.

[Elsalvajeloco]

30 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Who knows how accurate it is, but Wade Keller is now saying it's $240 million/year over 5 years, includes content streaming on Max.

If it's anything close to that, it's a home run.

What, if anything, did WCW get for Nitro get in like 1998-99?

[Craig H]

Yeah...I've heard that it's Punk with the legal threats, I've heard it's the Bucks that have made legal threats, I've heard Punk wants to apologize to the Bucks but the Bucks don't want to speak with him, I've heard Kenny and Hangman are fine with Punk, and on and on and on. It's hard to keep track of it all. I've heard so many different things that it's hard to even make a half-hearted attempt at seeing which of these is the most likely. 

For me, what it comes down to is that these are all adults in the wrestling business and they need to stop acting like babies. 

• Should Hangman have cut his workers rights promo? No. On the other hand, that seemed far less inflammatory that anything Eddie or Mox said in their promos.
• Should Punk have blown up during the media scrum? No. It makes everyone, Punk included, look bad. It never goes well for pro sports teams when that happens. It certainly didn't go well for Punk, Tony, Hangman, the Bucks, etc.
• Should the Bucks and Kenny and fucking Brandon and Nakasawa of all people gone straight to Punk's locker room even if Punk said if you have a problem with him than come speak to him about it? No. Give that some time to breathe. Immediately going after someone who is already heated isn't going to turn out well.
• Should Ace Steel have even been there? No.
• Should any of the suspensions happened? No.
• And finally, should all of these guys just sit in a room and hash their shit out with an open mind? Yes. No one pissed on a family member's grave. No one did anything unforgiveable. All of them are grown ass adults who should be able to apologize for their role and get back to ground zero. None of them have to even like each other. Punk doesn't need to go to church with the Bucks. The Bucks don't need to go to...ok...Punk is pretty much a shut in with a few exceptions. All you need to do is just come to work and work with each other and have each other's backs to make the most money you can. Shit ain't hard.

I also realize that there are some personality issues at play here. The Bucks seemingly always being cocky and jock bros and sneakerheads don't seem like they'd mesh well with Punk's personality. That's fine. Again, it's not high school. People can be who they are as long as when they're in that ring they're all protecting each other.

[Dog]

If that number's right, I'd be shocked. That would be about a 5x increase, which no one has forecast. Thurston was somewhere around 3.5x at his most opitimistic. But then, that was before WBD added another 2 hours of television per week. 

[Craig H]

Just now, Dog said:

If that number's right, I'd be shocked. That would be about a 5x increase, which no one has forecast. Thurston was somewhere around 3.5x at his most opitimistic. But then, that was before WBD added another 2 hours of television per week. 

Thurston is not great at predicting money numbers. He's good at ratings analysis, but I would trust him as much as I trust Meltzer when it comes to making predictions on money.

[Dog]

Meltzer completely misinterpreted an article about the Smackdown rights, making them seem way less favorable than they actually are. He understands zero about money. Thurston's numbers are purely going off of what WWE did in their last rights deal which, if anything, is overly optimistic since AEW doesn't have the same brand recognition. How else would you do it? Can you point to any specific instances when Thurston has goofed on "money numbers"?

EDIT: Again, the extra 2 hours throws a huge wrench into this, making a higher than forecast number totally in-play and appropriate. But the points remain. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Dog

[Craig H]

Off the top of my head, no. The one thing that specifically comes to mind is him making predictions about WWE's quarterly earnings, which he's usually wrong about. I like Thurston a lot and think he's pretty smart when it comes to viewership and ratings analysis. I just don't think he's nearly as good when it comes to talking about money.

[Craig H]

Something else to consider is that WBD is going all in on sports and reality content. And with a writers strike currently happening and now an actor's strike likely to happen in the next month or two (I may be off on that timeline because something tells me it may be September, but I'll have to check with my friend in Hollywood), WBD could be sensing, shit, let's pay them what they're worth and lock down our content that isn't going to get interrupted by strikes.

[Dolphman 3000]

2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

All of them are grown ass adults who should be able to apologize for their role and get back to ground zero. None of them have to even like each other. Punk doesn't need to go to church with the Bucks.

Tony set the precedent for letting Punk get whatever he wants when Colt Cabana got exiled into wrestling purgatory - Bucks going on his shitlist just means more of the same

I remember when Punk did interviews with UFC he would be asked about coming back to wrestling, and one time he mentioned that if he wanted to do something fun, he would work a PWG tag with the Bucks. He clearly appreciated their talent before coming into AEW.

I could see the Bucks and Punk both sharing the burden of being insufferable to deal with, so I can't really take sides. Kenny seems like the most level-headed person involved, and even if he works a program with Punk without the rest of The Elite involved, that would be cool.

[Dog]

I can't remember Thurston being appreciably wrong about earnings. My memory is that he's actually more accurate than the usual financial predictors who don't know what's going on with wrestling. 

I haven't listened to this week's Wrestlenomics episode yet, so I don't know if he has a new forecast on the AEW TV rights. Again, his 3x number was made before Collision. 

Has Meltzer even made a guess about AEW's new rights? Alvarez's guess is way too low. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Dog

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Basically, they're playing The Price is Right

  Reveal hidden contents

 

One dollar...?

[Craig H]

TWO DOLLARS, BOB!

The only dick move that's on par with with one person bidding one dollar higher than the previous person and the next person bidding just one dollar more. I always thought the audience should boo that.

[John from Cincinnati]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Should Hangman have cut his workers rights promo? No. On the other hand, that seemed far less inflammatory that anything Eddie or Mox said in their promos.

I made this point at the time of the brawl and have occasionally been making it since to push back, but I think there is a distinction. Eddie and Max were both taking stiff shots about things from the past or Punk’s ego or suggesting Punk should/would quit or that nobody wanted him in AEW. Hangman’s line was accusatory regarding Punk’s contemporary behind the scenes conduct in a manner nobody else had come close to. People use the Max and Eddie promos to make your point regularly, and I think it does good to watch all of it back because not all shooty bullshit uttered is equal. 

To be clear, I’m not accusating Hangman of any malicious intent. In all likelihood, he probably thought it was fair game to get a little edgy with a guy who’d made his bones that way in an effort to gin up interest in the match. Likewise, if people want to level “will dish it but can’t take it” at Punk, have at it. I just think the Hangman remark was unlike the Max/Eddie stuff. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by John from Cincinnati
Double word

[John from Cincinnati]

5 hours ago, Jenalysis said:

 Hangman was hurt a good bit by that loss, to the point the long Mox feud was necessary rehabilitation.

Or was Hangman hurt by the fact that his reign was being largely eclipsed by the Punk-MJF program? It wasn’t just one loss. He clearly wasn’t the top guy, and it was time for a pivot. While there were some very good matches (for the non-Matt peeps on the board), the reign was falling well short of the chase and I sense people were feeling that. 

Very glad things are heating up for him again though and I hope things go better the next time he has the belt. But sacrificing Punk to bolster something that just wasn’t going as well as his stuff wouldn’t have been the right move. If you’re a Hangman guy, the better case would be to suggest that the match shouldn’t have been booked in the first place. Because coming out of the Revolution TV cycle, Punk over Page is the most obvious path if the match had to happen. 

Unrelated: Writing this and thinking about older wrestlers who (rightly or wrongly) get labelled “injury prone”, and now I’m imagining what @Matt D would write if we got one of his guys and one of the most not his guys matches possible: Hangman vs Christian Cage. Where do I address my Tony wish list? The North Pole? Some of you know how to do this. Tell me how. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

TWO DOLLARS, BOB!

The only dick move that's on par with with one person bidding one dollar higher than the previous person and the next person bidding just one dollar more. I always thought the audience should boo that.

If AEW is playing The Price is Right, it would only be natural for Claudio Castagnoli to be the mountain climber.

https://youtu.be/YHv5jgXz9I8

[Matt D]

37 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Or was Hangman hurt by the fact that his reign was being largely eclipsed by the Punk-MJF program? It wasn’t just one loss. He clearly wasn’t the top guy, and it was time for a pivot. While there were some very good matches (for the non-Matt peeps on the board), the reign was falling well short of the chase and I sense people were feeling that. 

Very glad things are heating up for him again though and I hope things go better the next time he has the belt. But sacrificing Punk to bolster something that just wasn’t going as well as his stuff wouldn’t have been the right move. If you’re a Hangman guy, the better case would be to suggest that the match shouldn’t have been booked in the first place. Because coming out of the Revolution TV cycle, Punk over Page is the most obvious path if the match had to happen. 

Unrelated: Writing this and thinking about older wrestlers who (rightly or wrongly) get labelled “injury prone”, and now I’m imagining what @Matt D would write if we got one of his guys and one of the most not his guys matches possible: Hangman vs Christian Cage. Where do I address my Tony wish list? The North Pole? Some of you know how to do this. Tell me how. 

1. Punk vs Page was very good so I can't imagine Christian vs Page not being good, though it'd be better as babyface vs babyface probably.
2. I can see the idea that Page was overshadowed by Punk vs MJF. I think a bigger issue was that Cole was a uniquely poor opponent for him. There were Bullet Club/Elite elements to it and he was fresh after the jump, but Page really needed to be up against monsters (like Archer, sure; or the Big Bill match from over the weekend). He needed to be Anxious Millennial Bruno or Anxious Millennial Hogan. He needed a Stokely before they had a Stokely, or maybe, I guess Tully in the meantime? They had a plan for Page to win the war, but never to win the peace. Again, and I've said this three times, but here it is again, there's something compelling about the guy who wins the big one then having to live with what he'd done and the weight on his shoulders. If they played to its logical conclusion the Page As Champion stuff the way they're showing the strain on Cassidy now (though more melodramatic given the stakes and the differences in personalities) there would have been something hugely compelling there and I think something a lot of the fanbase could have really gotten behind.

[tbarrie]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

TWO DOLLARS, BOB!

The only dick move that's on par with with one person bidding one dollar higher than the previous person and the next person bidding just one dollar more. I always thought the audience should boo that.

I don't know. Is taking advantage of a stupid misplay a heel move?

I mean, the whole reason bidding last is a huge advantage is that you can (and should) put in a bid of $1 or one dollar higher than a previous bid. But if you try that shit when you're not the last bidder? You get what you get.

[matt925]

WBD has asked for no talent to be at the upfronts on Wednesday, to prevent anyone from potentially having to cross picket lines. No mention of the plans with aew but originally they planned to have all their big tv stars present, but now it will just be Zaslav and the ceo of Max. 

[StevieNippz]

On 5/14/2023 at 12:11 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Sounds like a good time. I would definitely be interested in an AEW house show when they hit NJ/NYC/Philly. 

I'm hoping they do a house show run in South Florida sometime. I always liked non televised events and Tony Chimel always has the hookup on awesome tickets.

[HumanChessgame]

5 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Tony set the precedent for letting Punk get whatever he wants when Colt Cabana got exiled into wrestling purgatory -

Except there's no indication he has anything to do with Colt's use (or non-use). Back when the initial All Out nonsense went on, I checked to see just how active Colt had been in AEW leading up to Punk's arrival. From January 2021 until Punk made his return in September, Colt had 26 matches in AEW. With the exception of being in the battle royale at Double or Nothing 2021 and one match on Dynamite in January, all of them were on Dark and most were six+ man matches. Teaming with the Bucks at the Brodie Tribute show in December of 2020 was the last somewhat high profile match he had. I find it hard to believe he was going to have his contract renewed anyways or at least be used in a non-jobber role regardless of Punk coming back or not. Maybe he was doing some work backstage like some of the other guys who are mainly on Dark? Honestly, going to ROH is the best use for him.

[Technico Support]

I just feel like Punk is, from all appearances, a really paranoid guy who is constantly on guard for real and perceived betrayals from friends.  I don't know the guy; just judging from 3rd & 4th hand shit and from behavior we've seen and heard about.  I don't think any of that's changed in 8 months unless he found the world's greatest therapist and that's highly unlikely since a former friend of his explained in a podcast (1st hand info!) that Punk doesn't believe in therapy.  So yeah, I don't think any amount of apologies, hand holding, roster splitting, etc. is going to help here.  Something's going to happen to set this guy off because when you're a hammer, everything is a nail.

That's been my unqualified internet psychologist take.  Thanks for reading!

[Goitre]

*Punk is first-hand. His former friend is second-hand. By my count. But I agree otherwise.

[The Natural]

MJF's custom AEW World Championship now has a red backing to it.

[Just Dave]

So, in another thread I used a term to describe Kenny Omega and his style of wrestling. I don't know how to post pictures, but if someone wanted to post the thumbnail that Jim Cornette used for the youtube clip where he discusses Omega saying that Mox is AEW's MVP... I get it now. I truthfully had no idea there were homophobic connotations to that term. I sincerely apologize and won't use that term again. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

3 hours ago, just drew said:

So, in another thread I used a term to describe Kenny Omega and his style of wrestling. I don't know how to post pictures, but if someone wanted to post the thumbnail that Jim Cornette used for the youtube clip where he discusses Omega saying that Mox is AEW's MVP... I get it now. I truthfully had no idea there were homophobic connotations to that term. I sincerely apologize and won't use that term again. 

You had no idea after numerous posters pointed it out? Come on. Own what you said, and don’t try to blame Cornette for it. That I’d respect. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by LF2