twiztor Posted March 12 Posted March 12 On 3/10/2025 at 5:14 PM, caley said: Who is a better wrestling play-by-play guy: Eric Bschoff or Vince McMahon? good question, as both men have their faults and strongpoints. On the early Nitros, Bischoff always felt like he was giving you the hard sell, but i also felt real excitement from him. Vince tried to make his character too straight-laced, but the times that broke down were golden. Overall, i gotta give it to Vince. Besides just longevity and material, his act ended up being more varied and evolved over time. When Bischoff went heel NWO, his commentary went straight down the toilet into unlistenable shit. 3
BloodyChamp Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Vince was better overall but young fired up Eric Bischoff on Nitro at his peak was the better and was up there with the best alltime IMO.
SirSmUgly Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Desperate babyface commentator Bischoff in 1999 operated at a level of vileness that might be unmatched in any company anywhere. Bisch is one of those WCW guys along with Booker and even Eddie who didn't excel as a talker until they went to WWE.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 12 Posted March 12 5 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: Desperate babyface commentator Bischoff in 1999 operated at a level of vileness that might be unmatched in any company anywhere. Maybe it's just cause he was running on fumes and was just a handful of weeks from being fired, but it's clear he had ran out of ideas if it wasn't apparent already and just went backwards. So not only did he want to go back to the NWO earlier that year, but he decided to be Eric Bischoff pre November 1996 only to come off super disingenuous. And he's trying. However, the die had been cast. Part of it may be he didn't really have faith in Schiavone anymore to get over the storylines and angles so he basically reinserted himself into the mix. The problem is it was so out of left field for that era of WCW and out of place. But as far as who's the best commentator? It's slightly above average versus slightly above average. TBH, because he had generic PBP voice down pat, Vince is totally fine. He was Mike Goldberg in the UFC before Mike Goldberg. Eric was okay for that brand of wrestling and time period. There were better options including the people who ended up replacing them, respectively. With Vince, anytime I rewatched something from when he's commentating, I only get a kick out of the thinly veiled inside references that I talked about just a few weeks back. That's the best part cause you probably didn't notice them in real time. That and basically the desperate attempts at humor and self congratulatory stuff. I found another one a few weeks ago during the wildly all over the place ECW fused Manhattan Center episode from February 1997. I dunno how many lines of coke were snorted before that final draft of the show was turned in, but it had to be bordering on enough to fuel the economies of Colombia and Peru for a couple years. Anyway, speaking of being desperate, WWF goes from in between PG and PG-13 on most weeks to TV-MA for that particular episode. They are trying so hard to be edgy and you can see where they would be headed later that year into next few years. Right away, before the Sunny vs. Marlena arm wrestling contest hosted by one Honkytonk Man, Marlena grabs the mic with Sunny in the ring and we get this: Marlena: First off, I wanna thank Sunny for taking a break from working 42nd Street. Jim Ross: OH MY! Vince: I thought they cleaned that place up! Besides the streetwalker talk, one of my other personal favorites from Vince is the year before during the subpar Shawn Michaels adultery storyline where Marty Jannetty is apparently a key witness for Shawn Michael's womanizing ways. Lawler is going on and on about Marty as his former tag partner knowing Shawn is a piece of crap. Vince, in the most matter of fact way possible: "Yeah, I don't think we can trust what Marty Jannetty says." No context or anything. There was no lead in as to why he would say that cause it's not like Marty had done anything to Shawn as they were not involved in any way with each other until Shawn wrestled Leif Cassidy and then wrestled Marty in Kuwait off TV. That was either a case of punching down on one of his employees (one who never did himself any favors to be fair) or basically, "Marty, you're on borrowed time". Probably both. 5 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: Bisch is one of those WCW guys along with Booker and even Eddie who didn't excel as a talker until they went to WWE. Honestly, I think there a few things at play. WCW's structure for heavy talking segments and promos was VASTLY different than WWF/E, and it's not likely they (WCW) had one to begin with. Even though people hated the 15-20 minute opening promos for Raw or Smackdown or the ones at the top of the hour, they had a point to build up either matches coming up later that night or at the next PPV. Those segments were clearly designed with a purpose. Yeah, some missed their mark badly or were plain terrible. The fact remains that WWE had a system in place that allowed an easier setting to stay on task and get your point across without sounded like an idiot or a goof or borderline pretend indy wrestler cutting their first promo of their career. So by the time all those guys you mentioned and others came aboard, the painfully scripted and micromanaged nature of WWE at least gave people a safety net for all the flaws inherent within that system. You didn't get the genuine (*genuine for pro wrestling, obviously) nature of all the promos most people love from old school NWA/WCW and the territories, but you also didn't get the absurd, off-the-wall stuff late era WCW had with like Piper, Flair, Warrior, and others. WWF/E is slightly high ceiling but a more sustainable floor. The baseline is decent. WCW had a ceiling way in the clouds, but their floor was in the seventh circle of Hell. Even Dusty, when he shows up randomly here and there post joining the NWO and for whatever reason being against Flair's reign of terror as President and the commentary team, has a few stinkers that make you cringe just a tad bit. I know the older guys had clearly lost some speed and velocity off the fastball ESPECIALLY Piper and the younger guys like Kidman and David Flair weren't natural talkers to begin with, but WCW clearly had no defined structured for how things went and definitely had no contingency plan for when things went off the rails in any case. You just went in the ring or on the ramp, cut a promo, and it was either sink or swim. Mean Gene was good at keeping stuff on track sometimes cause he was terrific, but he certainly couldn't save everyone. With Booker and Eddie, to be fair to WCW or maybe not completely fair given what I am about to say, they weren't given a proper chance until WCW had passed its peak clearly. Eddie had been around a LONG LONG time, but besides Los Gringos Locos/La Pareja del Terror in AAA where his best heel/rudo stuff was, no one knew he had what he showed in WWE until he actually did it in WWE. When he was on his way up though after his turn in 1997, he showed some signs of progress and was starting to convert what he had done in Mexico years prior into something compelling for the American centered, English speaking audience. Then, he fell out of favor with Bischoff and then had the near fatal car accident that stopped all his momentum he gained for the last year and a half. Booker was a good talker I would argue for the longest and by 1994/1995, Harlem Heat clearly had a ton of confidence just cause they had a chance to workshop their act on Saturday Night and the syndicated TV. However, a few years after that big jump in status, they had been basically given the label of "fun midcard tag team who won't be anything beyond that cause that's what tag team wrestling is" when Booker as the better worker of the two had a ton of potential especially given he could talk. If Stevie never gets hurt, we would have never found out Booker's true potential until much much later. 4
The Natural Posted March 12 Author Posted March 12 (edited) What would you say are WWE's big five PLE? Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, SummerSlam, Survivor Series are locks. It's between Money in the Bank and Elimination Chamber for fifth. I'd go with Elimination Chamber as it's on the Road to WrestleMania and MITB is a tired trope. Growing up, it was: 1. WrestleMania. 2. Royal Rumble. 3. SummerSlam. 4. Survivor Series. 5. King of the Ring. Now it's: 1. WrestleMania. 2. Royal Rumble. 3. SummerSlam. 4. Survivor Series. 5. Elimination Chamber. What is the second biggest WWE PLE of the year? I've always had the Royal Rumble above SummerSlam for the Royal Rumble match and start of the Road to WrestleMania. Edited March 12 by The Natural
SovietShooter Posted March 12 Posted March 12 12 hours ago, EVA said: WWE having to go on social media to beg indie promotions to book ID talents was a twist I did not see coming. I'm really intrigued by this, for multiple reasons. For decades the WWE has tried to control the narrative that their product is the only one worth watching, and a large part of their fanbase has bought into that. So WWE trying to get folks to pay attention to select Independent promotions, involving talent that their fanbase has never seen, in environments they have no control over, is fascinating.
SovietShooter Posted March 12 Posted March 12 (edited) . Edited March 12 by SovietShooter Double Post
Dolfan in NYC Posted March 12 Posted March 12 17 hours ago, Cobra Commander said: Divorce, it's expensive! ...and if the rumors are true, he's about a get a nice new fat contract.
Technico Support Posted March 12 Posted March 12 5 hours ago, SovietShooter said: I'm really intrigued by this, for multiple reasons. For decades the WWE has tried to control the narrative that their product is the only one worth watching, and a large part of their fanbase has bought into that. So WWE trying to get folks to pay attention to select Independent promotions, involving talent that their fanbase has never seen, in environments they have no control over, is fascinating. I can't link the Tweet, so here's the reddit story on it. If it's true that WWE ID workers can't job to non WWE ID workers, and some WWE ID workers have no-showed bookings to make Evolve tapings, I wouldn't bring them on, either.
SirSmUgly Posted March 12 Posted March 12 This is the first I've heard of this WWE ID thing. It bums me out. If only given a binary choice, I'd take the salary-suppressing NWA cartel over a single corporate conglomerate sinking its roots into almost every facet of the rest of the U.S. wrestling business. I'd take it one hundred out of one hundred times. I'm incredibly happy that AEW exists, and I don't need to watch the shows to feel that way about its existence. 1
Curt McGirt Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Quote Nick Khan is a "big fan" of New Jack, which is why he is included in WWE 2K25's DLC. "New Jack was a shock to all of us on the VC (Visual Concepts) and marketing side. New Jack was someone who I never expected would make it into our franchise. "It’s funny because it was actually Nick Khan who recommended or suggested that we add New Jack as DLC. When I heard that information from my marketing rep I was like, ‘Really?’ They were like, ‘Oh yeah, he’s a big fan.’ I believe he’s working on the paperwork to make this thing a reality. That was a huge surprise. Talk about a curveball, that thing came out of not left field, that came out of a different game altogether. So I’m really excited to have New Jack be a part of the game this year and we have some really cool things planned for New Jack." (Source: Bryan Williams | PWInsider) 1
SovietShooter Posted March 12 Posted March 12 33 minutes ago, Technico Support said: here's the reddit story on it. I actually replied in that thread, lol. I want someone to bring back the old days and have their local guy shoot on one of these fuckers for all the world to see. 1
AxB Posted March 12 Posted March 12 WWE ID prospect Marcus Mathers has, since signing the ID deal, lost a match to Nick Wayne. WWE ID guy Bryce Donovan has lost to Kris Statlander. Them doing jobs to AEW wrestlers is apparently a non-issue. Now doing jobs to unsigned wrestlers, that I don't know. On a lot of indie shows, they're tending to book ID prospect vs ID prospect lately. 1 1
clintthecrippler Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Wait was THAT why there was a multiple hour stretch yesterday where WWE ID twitter account was just tweeting out names of indie promotions? To try to get them to book the ID talent? Holy shit.
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 12 Posted March 12 Our local indy is having ID guy Capucina Jones wrestle Timothy Thatcher later this month. I'd be surprised if Thatcher lost.
EVA Posted March 12 Posted March 12 25 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said: Our local indy is having ID guy Capucina Jones wrestle Timothy Thatcher later this month. I'd be surprised if Thatcher lost. Thatcher has some kind of trainer/mentor role within the ID system. He’s worked some of the other guys, as well. I don’t think there’s any evidence that ID specifically prevents their guys from jobbing, which is good. However, it would not at all surprise me if some of the ID talent was independently A) using the affiliation to get out of doing jobs, and/or B) asking indies for more money than they’re worth because they’ve got the WWE ID tag, thus kinda playing themselves out of work.
Technico Support Posted March 12 Posted March 12 39 minutes ago, EVA said: Thatcher has some kind of trainer/mentor role within the ID system. He’s worked some of the other guys, as well. I don’t think there’s any evidence that ID specifically prevents their guys from jobbing, which is good. However, it would not at all surprise me if some of the ID talent was independently A) using the affiliation to get out of doing jobs, and/or B) asking indies for more money than they’re worth because they’ve got the WWE ID tag, thus kinda playing themselves out of work. lol this is carny as fuck and I can’t decide whether I hate it or love it. “I might be in NXT in two years, brother. I need a hundred more, trans, and no job.” 4
SovietShooter Posted March 12 Posted March 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, EVA said: However, it would not at all surprise me if some of the ID talent was independently A) using the affiliation to get out of doing jobs, and/or B) asking indies for more money than they’re worth because they’ve got the WWE ID tag, thus kinda playing themselves out of work. I'm dead serious when I say this; If I was on the WWE radar to the point where they had me signed to whatever this scouting gimmick is, I would be pimping myself out specifically to do jobs. "I'll come put your guy over, sure, not a problem Mr Promoter. But we're gonna be the main event, and my price is double what it was before" Edited March 12 by SovietShooter 3 1 3
Cobra Commander Posted March 12 Posted March 12 I'll gladly turn the abandoned K-Mart near my house into a wrestling arena for WWE ID guys to work indy matches if they just fund the entire thing so that I can't lose money.. gonna need a lot of money just to get bleachers, lighting, and maybe repave the parking lot and pay the talent and deal with Missouri's ass-backwards commission 2
clintthecrippler Posted March 13 Posted March 13 "I'll lose in a four way but I'm not taking the pin and you have to pay me double." 1
DreamBroken Posted March 14 Posted March 14 On 3/8/2025 at 3:33 PM, odessasteps said: I wonder if this footage has been edited to make Lex look bad. He said recently that Bruce edited the packages in the past to make him look bad. Shocking, That was the A&E Biography special from a couple years back that got edited to make it look that way with talking heads like Bruce saying Lex hated the Lex Express and all that. the 3 hour video on the Vault was originally a WWE Network hidden gem and is awesome. Just raw footage of everything they recorded while on the Express and everything surrounding that from the full Bodyslam Challenge to the SummerSlam 93 main event and of course the iconic I'll Be Your Hero video (with original song despite being dubbed over on SummerSlam 93 with the also great "7:26" by Michael Nappi)
The Natural Posted March 14 Author Posted March 14 https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1900565306948391120 Surreal seeing Randy Orton wearing a hoodie with sleeves. 1
Cobra Commander Posted March 14 Posted March 14 WWE filed a trademark for Grande Americano, so somebody is actually gonna get a good name either Chad Gable or Chad’s new friend 1
hammerva Posted March 14 Posted March 14 On 3/12/2025 at 3:41 PM, clintthecrippler said: Wait was THAT why there was a multiple hour stretch yesterday where WWE ID twitter account was just tweeting out names of indie promotions? To try to get them to book the ID talent? Holy shit. My favorite part was they tweeted 'ROH'. Like either it is Gabe trying throw off the scent that he runs the account or the handle has no idea what ROH is and just heard about this "super indie" on social media years ago Right now with the WWE ID thing there are basically two types of indie promoters, the ones that are basically "that's not going to work with me brother" and that they have all the control and the ones like Beyond and CZW who is so desperate to be around WWE ID that they are leaving puddles of their drool.
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