The Wall Street Journal Vince McMahon Thread.

[piranesi]

5 hours ago, Godfrey said:

Cody at the scrum, from 411

 

 

On how WWE can prevent something like the Vince McMahon situation from happening again: “ if you’re in my position that it’s a time when, hey, we got 50,000 people out here, I want to give them something else from this weekend that isn’t a terrible situation, terrible news, and I think we were able to do that and obviously as more news comes out, we’ll be seeing it just like you do.”

I've always hated this logic, shifting the burden of a decision he has to make onto us makes him a hero for making the choice he was always going to make anyway.

Don't do we 50,000 innocent, needy morons any favors, Cody. We'll be fine without your story. And honestly you will be better off too. But just say the truth "MY whole life is invested in this." 

Edited January 28 by piranesi

[RazorbladeKiss87]

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

I figure wrestling forums in the non-Vince alternate universe would be closer to Kayfabe Memories/Wrestling Classics with a tinge of CZWFans

It wouldn't be roller derby since wrestling's pre-80s peak was way higher than roller derby's peak, but it'd be a lot more niche.

I'd be okay with CZWFANS still existing.

[odessasteps]

Ive always said the promotion in New York and LA would have an advantage in going national. It helps Vince embraced the entertainment portion of the business over the sports part. And he was willing to do away with kayfabe which likely helped dealing with business people. 

[AxB]

From whence came this universal assumption that if the territories didn’t die, wrestling would have? For all we know, if nobody goes National in the early 80s, the territories survive long enough to evolve into the Super-indies.

[odessasteps]

You wonder what would have happened had most of the Major territories got their own cable deal. So, in 1987, you have WWF on USA, JCP on TBS, AWA on espn, UWF on a channel, WCCW on a channel, Memphis on a channel. Or would have someone channel created a wrestling block like Joe Pedicino did in atlanta? 

[TheVileOne]

While Triple H and Nick Khan were at least self-aware enough to not allow Brock Lesnar to be out into the stadium and be put on TV last night, Triple H should've been better prepared for questions like that. It was a bad, lose-lose situation but he still answered the questions in the worst possible way. He should've had a PR team better prepare him for that.

I like Cody and I believe Cody is a well-intentioned guy, but his comments were also tone-deaf. 

[Wyld Samurai]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

You wonder what would have happened had most of the Major territories got their own cable deal. So, in 1987, you have WWF on USA, JCP on TBS, AWA on espn, UWF on a channel, WCCW on a channel, Memphis on a channel. Or would have someone channel created a wrestling block like Joe Pedicino did in atlanta? 

You'd think WGN would have a tie-in... but that's AWA territory. Maybe Central States?

[odessasteps]

You could also see WGN wanted to do their own show and partner with cult favorite Chicago Championship Wrestling. 

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, piranesi said:

I've always hated this logic, shifting the burden of a decision he has to make onto us makes him a hero for making the choice he was always going to make anyway.

Don't do we 50,000 innocent, needy morons any favors, Cody. We'll be fine without your story. And honestly you will be better off too. But just say the truth "MY whole life is invested in this." 

Cody is, and always has been, corny as fuck.  He’s exactly where he’s supposed to be in his career.  Being the top guy in the underdog opposition promotion is not for him.  He’s always at the ready to toss the salad of his corporate overlords.

[Technico Support]

Double post but fucking seriously, between “let’s just stay positive” and doofus Cody talking about the 50k people they’re there to entertain, let’s put smiles on faces instead of turds on heads, god damn.  If there was ever a time to be a fucking human being…a woman was raped and sex trafficked and these shills can’t get out of the “treat Vince like Kim Jong Il” and protect the glorious company mindset.  Fuck these guys.

Edited January 28 by Technico Support

[Curt McGirt]

It's a wonder LA didn't have a bigger spot in the landscape. Their biggest names that I can recall, Patterson, Blassie, and Pedro Morales, wound up in New York. It's weird.

[The Great ML]

By 1980, LA was dead.

[SirSmUgly]

LA does its own thing, like Asian-American punk music club wars in Chinatown. 

Unlike Randy Newman, I say this completely without irony: I love LA. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 minutes ago, The Great ML said:

By 1980, LA was dead.

Hell, California arguably as a state was pretty much done by 81. That and a vast majority of the major cities in America are either way east of the Mississippi River or right near it. If it wasn't in NYC, Chicago, Philly, or one of the booming Texas metros (Dallas/Houston), it wasn't going to happen, captain.

[Death From Above]

Triple H claiming he hasn't even read the lawsuit might be the biggest lie he's ever told and that's saying something.

[odessasteps]

I wonder how CWF might have been different  if it was based (under Eddie or after) in Miami and not Tampa during the Miami Vice era.

[Mister TV]

2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

You wonder what would have happened had most of the Major territories got their own cable deal. So, in 1987, you have WWF on USA, JCP on TBS, AWA on espn, UWF on a channel, WCCW on a channel, Memphis on a channel. Or would have someone channel created a wrestling block like Joe Pedicino did in atlanta? 

There weren’t really that many options on cable besides USA, TBS and ESPN, channels like Tempo, FNN/Score and later Sports Channel America weren’t on that many cable systems and channels like TNN didn’t want wrestling, plus I can see USA totally bailing on wrestling after the blood stuff on Southwest. 
 

Also, it would have been really hard for the territories to survive into the 90’s on local tv. The influx of syndicated programming and infomercials that became widespread during the decade would have pushed local wrestling shows to odd times or low powered stations, which would have killed the house show business. 

Edited January 29 by Mister TV

[MKERyan]

3 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I'd be okay with CZWFANS still existing.

RIP

[Technico Support]

23 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder how CWF might have been different  if it was based (under Eddie or after) in Miami and not Tampa during the Miami Vice era.

More babyfaces with feathered hair and pastel gear.

[odessasteps]

 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

26 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

There weren’t really that many options on cable besides USA, TBS and ESPN, channels like Tempo, FNN/Score and later Sports Channel America weren’t on that many cable systems and channels like TNN didn’t want wrestling, plus I can see USA totally bailing on wrestling after the blood stuff on Southwest. 
 

Also, it would have been really hard for the territories to survive into the 90’s on local tv. The influx of syndicated programming and infomercials that became widespread during the decade would have pushed local wrestling shows to odd times or low powered stations, which would have killed the house show business. 

Pretty much this. I think what people forget when they do a lot of the "what if the territories had survived" scenarios is that a lot of those territories were doomed anyway, and WWF hastened their demise.

Take Black Saturday, for example. Georgia was buckling under the weight of trying to expand too quickly and the Briscoes wanted to get out anyway. If it wasn't going to be sold to Vince, it would have been sold to someone else.

Watts? Watts crashes in 1986/1987 anyway; nothing stops the oil prices from falling and his territory from cratering. If anything, Turner's demand that someone run a studio show in Atlanta might spread Watts' territory out and buy him a little bit of time, but he still ends up going under if his home base is still the Mid-South area.

Crockett probably crashes even faster than he did if he buys Georgia in 1984 instead of buying the slot from Vince, because then he tries to expand sooner than he did, and his staff wasn't capable of managing it. The question is really if Turner would be more willing to buy Crockett in, say, 1985/1986 rather than 1988.

The AWA still dies because Verne Gagne's problem wasn't Vince, his problem was his refusal to change with the times. He had Hogan when Hogan was red hot and wouldn't put his belt on him because he wanted a cut of Hogan's Japan dates, which forced Hogan out. Then he got gift-wrapped Sgt. Slaughter, who was almost as hot as Hogan at the time, and squandered Slaughter.

World Class still has the problem with the Von Erichs having their issues, and the territory becoming stale even if they do survive.

If Turner somehow stays in the wrestling business and if the situation described by Mister TV doesn't kill most of the groups, then whoever lands on Turner and survives in the mid-1990s still likely gets cancelled in 2001 when Jamie Kellner restructures TBS and TNT's programming. People say it's WCW's financials that got them cancelled, but both channels got rebranded around the same time WCW got dropped. It was clear that the merged AOL Time Warner wanted to change their programming and WCW's financials were an easy out for them. It stands to reason that no matter how healthy WCW was, or whoever was in their spot, they don't survive 2001.

This isn't to say that Vince was a genius or anything, but he was incredibly lucky and often in the right place at the right time. So assuming there's no WWF national expansion, eventually someone will end up trying (likely pushed by Turner as cable expands) and practically everyone ends up crashing due to their already extant problems.

[Go2Sleep]

57 minutes ago, Death From Above said:

Triple H claiming he hasn't even read the lawsuit might be the biggest lie he's ever told and that's saying something.

It might be technically true in that he hasn't read the full legal document. No way someone hasn't filled him in on all the most heinous parts, though, and well before the WSJ article dropped.

He also likely has a personal lawyer giving him more in depth analysis if he's one of the numbered corporate officials.

Edit: Also, I'm not enough of a sicko to watch the press conference, but did anyone ask about Lesnar?

Edited January 29 by Go2Sleep

[Elsalvajeloco]

56 minutes ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

If Turner somehow stays in the wrestling business and if the situation described by Mister TV doesn't kill most of the groups, then whoever lands on Turner and survives in the mid-1990s still likely gets cancelled in 2001 when Jamie Kellner restructures TBS and TNT's programming. People say it's WCW's financials that got them cancelled, but both channels got rebranded around the same time WCW got dropped. It was clear that the merged AOL Time Warner wanted to change their programming and WCW's financials were an easy out for them. It stands to reason that no matter how healthy WCW was, or whoever was in their spot, they don't survive 2001.

I know this is more an 80s conversation than 21st century convo, but the only pushback is what happens to WCW towards the end. I think it's definitely a timing issue as the quality of the actual product started tanking at the wrong time. In addition, having too many big money contracts on the books would have required some type of restructuring even if business didn't fall off. Let's just say the overall business doesn't collapse and it's basically a 60-40 advantage for WWF in terms of ratings, buyrates, gates, etc by 2000/2001, it gets really interesting because I am convinced it would have been easier to find a TV partner upon cancellation. That and there is a good chance a Panda Energy type company comes around willing to prop them up and be the new backer. Then, it becomes super intriguing cause if Austin eventually succumbs to injuries and Dwayne goes to Hollywood as what ended up happening, we're back at a more level playing field. The one big variable on the other side (WCW or what WCW end up turning into) is who leads on the other side cause Bischoff wasn't the answer for a new time in wrestling.

[piranesi]

Ted Turner never should have gotten more ambitious than Bill Tush doing the news.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

14 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I know this is more an 80s conversation than 21st century convo, but the only pushback is what happens to WCW towards the end. I think it's definitely a timing issue as the quality of the actual product started tanking at the wrong time. In addition, having too many big money contracts on the books would have required some type of restructuring even if business didn't fall off. Let's just say the overall business doesn't collapse and it's basically a 60-40 advantage for WWF in terms of ratings, buyrates, gates, etc by 2000/2001, it gets really interesting because I am convinced it would have been easier to find a TV partner upon cancellation. That and there is a good chance a Panda Energy type company comes around willing to prop them up and be the new backer. Then, it becomes super intriguing cause if Austin eventually succumbs to injuries and Dwayne goes to Hollywood as what ended up happening, we're back at a more level playing field. The one big variable on the other side (WCW or what WCW end up turning into) is who leads on the other side cause Bischoff wasn't the answer for a new time in wrestling.

Yeah, if anything, no Monday Night War likely means no super inflated contracts on the books for whoever is the last group standing. It'd also be interesting if Eric Bischoff's comments about AOL Time Warner's creative accounting processes pushing a lot of money away from WCW would still happen and unbalance their books for whoever's left.

But yeah, assuming there isn't 10+ million dollar a year contracts (or within that range) to pick up without a Monday Night War to inflate the salaries, then there might be a better chance of whoever gets cancelled off TBS/TNT in 2001 finding a new TV partner, but then "what does the TV landscape look like" becomes your big what if.