AEW - SEPTEMBER 2022

[Matt D]

25 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

What, a Danhausen-like comedy face? I could see it. He's pretty ridiculous.

I'm harsh on Cole, and I'll be harsh here, but let me spell it out.

• He has an undeniable connection with the live crowds. They want to sing along to his music. They want to do the "Bay-Bay" thing. He talks about how it's ok that they're doing that early because then he can work hard in the match to get them behind his opponent. In my estimation, that doesn't actually happen. So long as that doesn't happen, it's a problem. 
• People have argued that his look isn't consummate to his offense and it hinders suspension of disbelief in the shared narrative that is held for most of the rest of the company (it's worse with the Bucks, sure, but let's not re-litigate that!). There's a potential of a wrestler getting heat this way to a degree, of being scrawnier than his opponent but cheating or being just good enough to hang instead of getting his comeuppance. But why not lean into it and have him work from underneath as a babyface which would be a more natural and would work towards reality as opposed to forcing a bending of it? Right now it's 80% forcing a strength into a weakness and creating friction and maybe 20% leaning into the disparity/dissonance as a strength. Bumping's great to make monster babyfaces look strong but it's probably better in a babyface who has to work from underneath.
• He puts himself out there as a human being as much as any wrestler today and that makes him naturally hard to boo. It makes the act of booing him a performative act for most of the fans. It means that they have to go the extra mile and play along more than with most wrestlers. They do it with MJF because we all know he's a guy doing a gimmick but he also carries that gimmick over to his social media which makes it easier than the super nice guy who streams all the time and obviously deeply cares about the fans and everyone else. Again, it's just another thing that makes it a little harder or a little more performance for the fans. you can sort of avoid it with most wrestlers. It's harder with Cole. If he's so likable that he's the only guy both the Elite and Punk will say very nice things about, lean into that.
• He's been a heel between the two promotions for years now, with the same act. It's stale. They've already run him for two matches up top after being on top in NXT forever.
• With Fish gone and O'Reilly hurt, he's down his team anyway. I don't think he works at all as a heel right now, but he definitely doesn't work as a heel without a goon squad and there are too many goon squads around anyway. Make him a face who alienated all of his friends and has to fight against all odds in the eyes of the fans.

[(BP)]

Cole’s control segments are arduous. He’d be so much better selling a bunch and changing the momentum with his flash superkick schtick. 

[Jiji]

He'd have to keep the cocky shtick because he'd lose a lot of his appeal if he became an awe shucks babyface. But yeah, he should probably turn on his return despite fucking over the Bucks (who need to be lifetime heels). 

Edited September 27 by Jiji

[Craig H]

20 minutes ago, Jiji said:

He'd have to keep the cocky shtick because he'd lose a lot of his appeal if he became an awe shucks babyface. But yeah, he should probably turn on his return despite fucking over the Bucks (who need to be lifetime heels). 

I think the Bucks are also really nice in real life, or at least that's how they come off because I don't know too many others who would actually go out of their way to entertain the leeches that hang out at airports at 3 am to get them to autograph a ton of stuff. On the other hand, they should probably shut that shit down because it probably makes it worse for others. The Bucks are just so much better as heels in the ring.

Cole I think works so much better as a face and not in the aww shucks way either. As a heel, he's more like a little guy that's getting away with being a little shit. I think there's so much more to him as a face and his natural connection with people is a big part of that.

So yes, Bucks heel, Cole returns face, and make KOR a face too if he doesn't have to retire.

[A_K]

Cole should definitely be face, an absolute non-factor as a heel. Bucks/Omega heels. You can even pair Cole/Page to decent effect.

[Red King]

I've read AEW won't be granting any releases no matter what.

You have to let your contract expire.

 

[JohnnyJ]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Here's where I think we're at.

Between the Vince situation a couple of months ago (Only July!) and the AEW Brawl, both the demand for news and rumors and the incentives for providing it are at their highest point in a couple of years at least. It means that an already perfidious ecosystem of sourcing and leaking is strained even farther to the point where if a wrestler or even a person in the industry (Sapp, Alvarez, Keller, let alone Dave) says something, the second and third hand sites will stretch it as far as possible to make an article out of it. That means we're having not just jumping to conclusions using reason and rationalization, but a sort of second and third hand version of that where people will use previous articles that were all supposition (even if potentially logical supposition) as springboards and suddenly you have two or three articles built off dubious foundations. Let's say there's dozens of these. Of these, a few are probably going to be true just because of the odds and the power of logic and paying attention, but it's such a flood of dubious things built upon dubious things and educated guesswork built upon educated guesswork that the entire enterprise is even more worthless than usual, and as @Greggulatorlikes to remind us, even in the best of times, it's not worth all that much.

Basically sums it up. It seems like the majority of the industry is made up of message board posters with a byline. Everyone is parroting the same points and the more they are parroted the more they become cemented as truth. I know the Punk situation was completely insane, but you can use it as another example of how the echo chamber can have a debilitating effect on people when a whisper gets repeated and eventually viewed as fact. While wrestling journalism is particularly irresponsible, the echo chamber is not unique. It's the same thing that has happened in sports and politics. Sourcing is weak and content is king. 

[Matt D]

Since you guys haven't had enough of me today, here's my write up of Danielson vs Mox:

Spoiler

I burned through this one a second time today. Initially, I thought I might talk about Danielson working the arm and how he potentially made just enough inroads there to keep control but not enough maintain it down the stretch and how going back to that at the very end allowed for Moxley to counter him on the ramp and ultimately win. Maybe there would have been something in there about how Moxley targeted the leg, trying for the same thing, but ultimately won by keeping his eye on his ultimate goal, on the end and not just the means. On the second watch, though, I wasn't feeling that narrative as much. It was there but that's not what I want to talk about after all.

This, more than any other match I've ever seen, was presented as a match between two training partners. Sometimes that might show up in an overwrought, spot-laden sort of way, guys trying to dropkick each other at the same time, signature moves deftly countered with winks a'plenty. It might get hammered down your through. Despite Regal talking about it on commentary, that wasn't this. Instead, there was a visceral, real, subtle yet obvious sense of familiarity. Regal put it best. For every hold that each wrestler used, they trained for the counter. Moxley tried the LeBell Lock on Danielson and Danielson turned on his side to avoid it. Danielson went with the Cattle Mutilation and Moxley whipped his hips around to get out. Moxley had a sense on when he could goad in Danielson to avoid a dropkick in the corner. Danielson knew just how much of Moxley's stuff to absorb before firing back.

We know these guys spend hours upon hours training. Or, if we don't know it, we're led to believe it through podcasts and interviews and stories about getting to the arena early and setting up shop. There's no reason not to believe it. You watch this match and you saw it from bell to bell. Moxley didn't eat up Danielson with his strikes. Danielson didn't eat up Moxley on the mat (I'd argue that Jericho as Lionheart did that more so, in fact). At key points, Danielson had Moxley's number but when it counted down the stretch, Moxley had Danielson's. The moment where Moxley went for Danielson's Achilles tendon and the way that Excalibur reacted, as if something profane and forbidden, against every code, had just occurred, a way that Tony Schiavone wouldn't necessarily have known to react, that you or I wouldn't, felt like the ultimate way to escape from that balanced paradigm. It's what it would take to push past the familiarity of their training, something accepted by Regal, accepted by both wrestlers. The finish felt symbolic to signify the post-Punk world, the reversal used to defeat Piper and Austin reversed and smothered, the dying gasp of Neo-Bret-ism. Instead, the hammer-and-anvil ethos of the Blackpool Combat Club and of Moxley's Neo-Hansen-ism reign supreme.

 

[Red King]

Battle of the Belts IV will be live.

[Belgian_Waffle]

They just announced Malakai and Buddy vs Dave and Alvarez in a Releases On a Pole match for Full Gear. 

[Cobra Commander]

how close are we to Malakai/Buddy using deadly mist to set rag sheets on fire ala 1995 Hulk Hogan to refute the rumors?

[just drew]

Sounds like Triple H believed all these guys would bend over backward to get out of their deals the second he came calling and only 3 asked for their releases. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall when Adam Cole told HHH “nah, I’m good.” If Tony really wants to get under HHH’s skin, he should sign Nixon Newell just to keep her away from Dakota Kai…

[HarryArchieGus]

Really hoping to see Malakai and Buddy settle into some fitting mid-card-gatekeeper-jobber roles. And go on a run of being soundly beaten by such teams as the Best Friends, Reynolds and Silver, the Blondes, etc. Maybe even a handicap loss to Wardy! Pac oughtta kick the shit out of those guys too.  

[John from Cincinnati]

No better way to keep locker room morale high than burying anyone who might not be perfectly content. 

[madl]

19 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

No better way to keep locker room morale high than burying anyone who might not be perfectly content. 

Meltzer said locker room morale is higher then it has been in awhile because the people who are there seem to really want to be there and some of the people who don’t want to be there aren’t being used at the moment abd seemed to be on their way out of the company.  He wasn’t specific, but the implication seemed to be that not having Black in the locker room was a case of addition by subtraction.  Going to be interesting to see what happens if Black starts turning on tv again regularly.

At the moment, I am not convinced Tony can get a handle on the locker room issues.  Burying malcontents probably isn’t the way to go but rewarding guys like Black and Punk because they complain loudly doesn’t set a good precedent either.

 

Edited September 27 by madl

[just drew]

Right? TK should be figuring out how to strap up all 3 HOB members. 

[HarryArchieGus]

19 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

No better way to keep locker room morale high than burying anyone who might not be perfectly content. 

I didn't suggest it was the right way. Just something I'd enjoy seeing.

[just drew]

6 minutes ago, madl said:

Meltzer said locker room morale is higher ‘s been in awhile because the people who are there seem to really want to be there and some of the people who don’t want to be there aren’t being used at the moment abd seemed to be on their way out of the company.  He wasn’t specific, but the implication seemed to be that not having Black in the locker room was a case of addition by subtraction.  Going to be interesting to see what happens if Black starts turning on tv again regularly.

At the moment, I am not convinced Tony can get a handle on the locker room issues.

 

There’s some other pretty polarizing figures still missing from AEW’s locker room who’s absence might improve locker room morale…

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

They just announced Malakai and Buddy vs Dave and Alvarez in a Releases On a Pole match for Full Gear. 

Don’t be silly. TK would never release Dave and Bryan. They’re too valuable. 

[TheVileOne]

3 hours ago, Blue Dragon said:

Battle of the Belts IV will be live.

Maybe they will actually promote it this time.

[zendragon]

1 hour ago, madl said:

 

At the moment, I am not convinced Tony can get a handle on the locker room issues.  Burying malcontents probably isn’t the way to go but rewarding guys like Black and Punk because they complain loudly doesn’t set a good precedent either.

 

Of course if someone is endlessly bitching and moaning it begs the question why are you here? How ever I do think its better to at least verbalize your issues rather than just sulking

[zendragon]

4 hours ago, Matt D said:

Since you guys haven't had enough of me today, here's my write up of Danielson vs Mox:

  Hide contents

I burned through this one a second time today. Initially, I thought I might talk about Danielson working the arm and how he potentially made just enough inroads there to keep control but not enough maintain it down the stretch and how going back to that at the very end allowed for Moxley to counter him on the ramp and ultimately win. Maybe there would have been something in there about how Moxley targeted the leg, trying for the same thing, but ultimately won by keeping his eye on his ultimate goal, on the end and not just the means. On the second watch, though, I wasn't feeling that narrative as much. It was there but that's not what I want to talk about after all.

This, more than any other match I've ever seen, was presented as a match between two training partners. Sometimes that might show up in an overwrought, spot-laden sort of way, guys trying to dropkick each other at the same time, signature moves deftly countered with winks a'plenty. It might get hammered down your through. Despite Regal talking about it on commentary, that wasn't this. Instead, there was a visceral, real, subtle yet obvious sense of familiarity. Regal put it best. For every hold that each wrestler used, they trained for the counter. Moxley tried the LeBell Lock on Danielson and Danielson turned on his side to avoid it. Danielson went with the Cattle Mutilation and Moxley whipped his hips around to get out. Moxley had a sense on when he could goad in Danielson to avoid a dropkick in the corner. Danielson knew just how much of Moxley's stuff to absorb before firing back.

We know these guys spend hours upon hours training. Or, if we don't know it, we're led to believe it through podcasts and interviews and stories about getting to the arena early and setting up shop. There's no reason not to believe it. You watch this match and you saw it from bell to bell. Moxley didn't eat up Danielson with his strikes. Danielson didn't eat up Moxley on the mat (I'd argue that Jericho as Lionheart did that more so, in fact). At key points, Danielson had Moxley's number but when it counted down the stretch, Moxley had Danielson's. The moment where Moxley went for Danielson's Achilles tendon and the way that Excalibur reacted, as if something profane and forbidden, against every code, had just occurred, a way that Tony Schiavone wouldn't necessarily have known to react, that you or I wouldn't, felt like the ultimate way to escape from that balanced paradigm. It's what it would take to push past the familiarity of their training, something accepted by Regal, accepted by both wrestlers. The finish felt symbolic to signify the post-Punk world, the reversal used to defeat Piper and Austin reversed and smothered, the dying gasp of Neo-Bret-ism. Instead, the hammer-and-anvil ethos of the Blackpool Combat Club and of Moxley's Neo-Hansen-ism reign supreme.

 

I like the finish and how two guys who train MMA/Jui Jutsu worked the match treated it like any big move might be it Lebell Lock, Cattle Mutilation, Regal Knee, Bulldog choke, deathrider. I don't know if I've ever seen Mox use a sleeper as a finisher before

[John from Cincinnati]

1 minute ago, zendragon said:

I like the finish and how two guys who train MMA/Jui Jutsu worked the match treated it like any big move might be it Lebell Lock, Cattle Mutilation, Regal Knee, Bulldog choke, deathrider. I don't know if I've ever seen Mox use a sleeper as a finisher before

I went looking and quickly stumbled onto this, from pre-shutdown 2020.

 

[SprintingFromAmerica]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Don’t be silly. TK would never release Dave and Bryan. They’re too valuable. 

Tbh I'd actually lol if they ran Danhausen vs Bryan on Dark one time, but I suspect Meltzer might not like it.

[Sammo~!]

8 minutes ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

Tbh I'd actually lol if they ran Danhausen vs Bryan on Dark one time, but I suspect Meltzer might not like it.

"Well, here's the thing. Obviously I work with Bryan and so he's uhhh...well I mean he's you know. Well ok SO! You know how Danhausen started and he was like this...generic indie guy? Well it's sort of like, I mean anyway, The thing with Bryan as a wrestler is that he's uh, well so Kenny Omega said that he wanted Bryan on Dark because he's you know...."