July 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[Phantom Lord]

18 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I remember they promoted Hogan/Andre as kind of a main event of WMIV. Basically they sold the ppv as knowing that a new champion was going to be crowned and you'd get a guaranteed Hogan/Andre match.

Plus, Hogan had the filming of No Holds Barred coming up...so Macho Man got the title.

[onelegbrynn]

10 hours ago, sevendaughters said:

I saw there was some chatter about Wrestlemania IV in here recently and a question occurred to me: Hogan main events III and V but at IV he's in a QF against Andre that ends in a shite DDQ. What was going on with Hognosh around this time? Contract beef? Doing a film? I'm sure I could listen to another 4 hours of Lapsed Fan to find out but not got the mental energy to wade through all the ass-fucking jokes.

I like Jack Encarnacao but I can’t stand the Lapsed Fan podcast. Too long and bloated with unnecessary crap.

Anyway, RE Hogan at Mania IV … I figured the Hogan/Andre match was in the middle of the show with that finish to play into the story of him eventually helping Savage win the title. Plus Hogan and Andre had just headlined Main Event on NBC about 8 weeks or so prior to set the whole tournament into motion, so I’m guessing that’s the (storyline) reason?

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

I believe the plan was always to make Savage into a huge star by winning the tournament and title and then have it lead to Savage vs. Hogan the next year.

The inclusion of Andre vs. Hogan in the tournament after the double ref/Million Dollar Man tries to buy the title angle was just a slight of hand magic trick. It might was as well been not in the tournament cause there was no plan for Hogan to do anything else in the tournament. It was just an isolated match that just happen to be in the tournament. I mean they always did double DQs, double count outs or draws on tournaments to save time on the show. That match fit perfectly into that since it was there to escalate and blow that off.

[Niners Fan in CT]

9 hours ago, hammerva said:

People who are bitching that Sasha is asking for $30K either

Yeah that's not unreasonable at all.  Plus.. one promoter already stated the demand's there for her.  The promoters are gonna get a good return on her appearance. 

[Eivion]

28 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yeah that's not unreasonable at all.  Plus.. one promoter already stated the demand's there for her.  The promoters are gonna get a good return on her appearance. 

Something tells me the return isn't going to be $30K worth. Its not really reasonable for the indy scene. At the same time she is reasonably bigger than the scene at this point. When it comes down to it the only places that can really afford her outside of WWE are AEW and Stardom. I would be surprised if she showed up elsewhere before popping up in one of those. 

[odessasteps]

Promoters are also going to need to make sure they have adequate security for her, between the large crowds of people and the subset of creepy stans. I presume that will get passed on the consumers. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

51 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Something tells me the return isn't going to be $30K worth.

Other top acts have charged about the same... even more. 

[ReiseReise]

7 hours ago, DMJ said:

IMDB says filming of No Holds Barred occurred in May 1988 - though the movie being released in June 89' seems like a long post-production considering I don't recall much special effects and the overall quality of the film. But who knows, maybe it did take close to a full year to turn the raw footage into something remotely watchable?

Could have been this, especially making "Zeus'" wrestling look passable. Honestly, at this point I would be curious just how awful the movie was before the final cut. 

[odessasteps]

Imagine if they just made Hansen the main heel instead of Tiny Lister. 

[zendragon]

5 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I believe the plan was always to make Savage into a huge star by winning the tournament and title and then have it lead to Savage vs. Hogan the next year.

This is always something that blows my mind. Vince had "The Megapowers Explode" angle over a year in advance. He would book mania to mania, now he can't even stick to a script for a 3 hr raw

 

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yeah that's not unreasonable at all.  Plus.. one promoter already stated the demand's there for her.  The promoters are gonna get a good return on her appearance. 

She's one of the few main stream breakthrough stars they've made in what the last decade or more. If I was a promoter I'd try to move heaven and earth to get her

[Elsalvajeloco]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:22 PM, ReiseReise said:

Could have been this, especially making "Zeus'" wrestling look passable. Honestly, at this point I would be curious just how awful the movie was before the final cut. 

Given how much the WWF devoted to promoting it (and they promoted THE FUCK out of it), I'm safely assuming it was WWF pushing for a summer release instead of maybe putting it out at Christmas time 1988. You have to remember that WWF was able to double dip by releasing the film and then months later doing "The Match/The Movie" on PPV between Christmas and New Year's. You also would have Hogan as champion when it was put out rather than Randy Savage. 

Tony Schiavone's story about being at the premiere where he talks about the standing ovation afterwards like it was a potential Oscar nominee premiering at Cannes and someone (I believe Patterson but don't quote me) asking Tony, "Wasn't Hogan great?" makes me firmly believe the WWF brass thought that shit would make Back to the Future type money at the box office. That, and there was a Raw from 1997 where Vince and JR bury Hogan six feet under about it doing disappointing business. Also, not surprisingly, Bruce Prichard on the watch along with Conrad unironically loves the hell out of the No Holds Barred. I believe he went down to Atlanta when they were filming as well.

Based on all that, it makes all the sense of the world for them wanting to do this major marketing campaign that they would have time to roll out. 

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Other top acts have charged about the same... even more. 

And I suspect promoters really couldn't afford them either. Not saying she isn't worth it. I just doubt there are many who can afford her. Its still realistically what she should be charging.

[Elsalvajeloco]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:09 AM, zendragon said:

This is always something that blows my mind. Vince had "The Megapowers Explode" angle over a year in advance. He would book mania to mania, now he can't even stick to a script for a 3 hr raw

Not to take away any credit for Vince as he definitely deserves it, but if you didn't go in that direction once the fans turned Randy babyface themselves with their responses at the TV tapings, you should win Worst Booker of the Year automatically for the next 10-15 years. They had a guy that could be seen as on the same level as Hogan rather than semi-credible foe or monster of the month. They were able to extend the lifespan of the juggernaut that was Hulkamania two more years.

As for Vince, he's probably like the Terrence Malick of pro wrestling. Malick gave us Badlands and Days of Heaven but something experimental like The Tree of Life gave way to his output being horrific borderline student film-ish, director jerkoff material in Knight of Cups and Song to Song. At some point, if you stay around long enough, you lose something off the fastball and never get it back.

[odessasteps]

There is one theory that Vince began to change (go crazy?) when the company went public and everything went to his head. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

12 hours ago, odessasteps said:

There is one theory that Vince began to change (go crazy?) when the company went public and everything went to his head. 

My belief is that Vince was so ahead of the curve in terms of his vision and ideas compared to the folks that made of the NWA territory membership back in the 1980s that he himself never got the reality check that wrestling constantly evolves whether people like it or not until much later. Once the last batch of pre-made stars came in and out of WWF in 1988/1989/1990, he had to figure out to how to make stars on his own. There was no other places to pilfer. I believe going through that for the next several years made him stronger, but at the same time, made him a bit delusional. You were able to land a guy in Steve Austin who was criminally misused throughout his career and get someone in Dwayne Johnson who had mountains of potential all in the of span of a few months. Meanwhile, you had legacy performers like Undertaker, Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels who were able to hold the fort until those two rockets were able to take off.

Jerry Jones was able to make the Dallas Cowboys the most profitable franchise in sports based off freaky luck he had his first five years as an owner. That success has only emboldened him to make worse decisions year after year. At some point, you just wonder when did this guy lose grip with reality. Then you realize, based on mounting evidence, he probably never had a firm grasp in the first place. It's just that you need to be some level of maniac to take those chances and risks in order to be successful in the first place. However, if you never learn another way, it's only going to lead to futility. If you're making more money than you've ever made, what would be the point of learning another way?

[Ziggy]

56 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

There is one theory that Vince began to change (go crazy?) when the company went public and everything went to his head. 

I think going from having a small booking committee of less than a hand full of wrestling minds to having a bunch of writers. Also having PPVs every month got things to move too fast booking wise. After they bought out WCW they should've cut back on PPVs

[Shartnado]

10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I confused Norvell Austin and Steve Austin one time.

 (not wrestling related but...) That's  nothing! I don't confuse the two per se, but I'm still astounded that Rosario Dawson and James Van Derbeek (sp?) look nothing alike, even though they are both Dawsons!

[Ace]

1 hour ago, Shartnado said:

 (not wrestling related but...) That's  nothing! I don't confuse the two per se, but I'm still astounded that Rosario Dawson and James Van Derbeek (sp?) look nothing alike, even though they are both Dawsons!

[The Natural]

My favourite WWE moment in 2022 and one of my favourite things overall in wrestling this year:

Cody Rhodes returns to WWE. Never expected that at the start of '22. 2022 is a historic year.

Edited July 16, 2022 by The Natural

[Brandon Bones]

Since I’m out of the loop on WWE.  Would the Cody return pretty much count as the ONLY “moment” WWE has managed to manufacture this year?  Am I assuming too little of them?

[The Natural]

21 minutes ago, Brandon Bones said:

Since I’m out of the loop on WWE.  Would the Cody return pretty much count as the ONLY “moment” WWE has managed to manufacture this year?  Am I assuming too little of them?

That and Steve Austin's first match in 19 yeara vs. Kevin Owens at WrestleMania XXXVII Night 1.

[The Natural]

Doesn't surprise me. I can see Cody trying to do a Cena.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

$30k seems like a good amount to ask for when you don’t really want to take indie bookings but you want your fans to think you want to take indie dates.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

16 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

$30k seems like a good amount to ask for when you don’t really want to take indie bookings but you want your fans to think you want to take indie dates.

Facts. Listen I'm not hating on anyone. Get that money. You're worth what people are willing to pay and she has a couple signings lined up. So she isn't over priced. But let's put some context in here. The Undertaker wants $10k for signings. In the 2000s Kevin Nash was $10k to book for a match. Braun Stroman's rate for non-CYN indy appearances is $10k. Sasha's rate is charging 3x more than Nash, The Undertaker, & Braun Stroman.

I think this is a wrestling bubble thing more than anything else. She has mainstream fame because of Star Wars. You add that on top of the wrestling fame, and maybe that price makes more sense in the Comic Con scene or something? I'm not sure. But I can say for sure putting your wrestling rate at $30,000 is you saying you really don't want to take any bookings. Because that rate is like double the entire gate most of even the best indys make. The only people that could afford to book her are the tippy top indy's and money marks that purposely lose money on events.

So AEW could afford that. Mayyybbeee GCW & MLW? Impact might be able to scrape together enough to use her once? But that's it. Knowing the ins and outs of the budgets for running indy events, that is crazy crazy crazy crazy money to ask.

[Niners Fan in CT]

@NoFistsJustFlipsThe $30k asking price is for appearances/signings. 

Think of it as when a lounge books a musical artist. There's an appearance fee that sounds crazy but you are 1. Selling tickets and 2. Selling way overpriced drinks. 

The comic-con circuit is similar to that.. you are paying Sasha Banks $30k (and others their fees) but you are going to get that all back with ticket sales and autographs. 

She is maybe a special case too because you're pulling from the wrestling crowd and then you are also pulling from the Star Wars crowd. Remember, she was in two episodes of The Mandalorian but there are already three action figures of her character. She has a cool looking character, so they sell well. 

She's not taking any in-ring bookings until 2023 and people are speculating does she want the time off, is it something contractual with the settlement or is there the possibility for her signing a new deal with WWE as they close in towards Royal Rumble season.