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Hell in a Cell XII - 10/25/2020


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7 hours ago, Craig H said:

Let me get this straight. You have Otis, maybe one of the most likeable babyfaces in the company, lose the MitB on the same night that Roman retains and Orton wins the championship. Not only that, but you have Tucker turn on Otis when they're on separate brands and Miz is going to cash in on...? Orton is pretty much penciled in for Edge I'm guesssing and Miz sure as shit isn't beating Roman.

I mean, at least with Randy winning and if Otis still had the briefcase you could have him beat Orton and let him have a short run with the title.

Even if Otis lost the cash in at least he had the shot. The fact that you have a ppv built around MITB and Otis wins the main event only to lose the case speaks volumes.  If you didn't have WWE Network why would you buy the MITB in the future knowing the winner could be screwed out of the reward?  It's one of the stupidest moves WWE has done all year.  Also Miz? Why him? He's in a tag team now. At least Tucker and Otis were sent to different brands. 

 

Speaking of stupid decisions,  lets build up a heel stable, only to have them dominated in every match they have been in.  Sounds 2020 to me. 

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The Otis situation is frustrating. The only mistake he made was getting super over as a midcard act. Sadly, they took that as him being ready for a MITB run, which he wasn't. They should have left Heavy Machinery together, let them win tag titles, THEN have Tucker turn on Otis out of jealousy. They rushed the entire arc and brought in the MITB briefcase when it wasn't needed. Unless Otis goes to RAW, having Tucker turn on him now will be wasted. And both guys offer so much more. A shame.

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1 hour ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

The sad thing is there was a point not that long ago when DVDVR would have been 100% behind a Miz main-event push.

 

Hell, I still am.

For fuck's sake, the guy is so generous he threw away the last year or so of his career to reteam with his buddy just to make sure Vince didn't give Morrison the Curt Hawkins treatment. He deserves a reward...

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1 hour ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

The sad thing is there was a point not that long ago when DVDVR would have been 100% behind a Miz main-event push.

 

2016 was the time with The Miz's long Intercontinental Championship reign, one of his and Dolph Ziggler's best matches at No Mercy and THAT promo:

One of the greatest promos ever.

Edited by The Natural
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I didn't see the PPV yet. Miz and Morrison have been a snooze. But The Miz is maybe second only to Jericho in finding ways to get back into the mix of things after dipping down to the mid-card for a little bit. Not everyone can be in the main event all of the time. But knowing how to keep yourself interesting when you have to move down a level for a while is one of the most important skills a wrestler can have.

He's invaluable to the WWE. He really is. It really is ridiculous how many guys he's put to the most over they ever were in their careers. He's one of the best promo guys in wrestling history. I don't think that's hyperbole at all. He does an (ugh) awesome job at mixing in the supposed real-life issues with storytelling that leads to an actual match. He's not an upper echelon in-ring guy, but he plays a cheap-shot heel character perfectly.He definitely doesn't look out of place when in the ring with the best of the best. 

It's funny. One of CM Punk's main issues when he quit WWE was that he wasn't going to get a WM main event match and took petty snipes at how The Miz had one against Cena. The Miz has lapped CM Punk's WWE career several times over by this point. Plus, Miz is maybe the most unlikely person to ever get to where he's at in wrestling. He went from a Real World refuge and truly terrible when he first started to one of the most well-rounded wrestlers of his generation. 

All-in on a Miz main event push, as long as he's a heel. Miz's one weakness is that he's absolutely terrible as a face. I think that's the difference between him being a HOF guy (he is) and an inner circle type. He's a step down from Cena or Daniel Bryan or now Roman Reigns. But he's still better than 95% of everyone else who has ever been in a WWE ring. 

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Orton winning the belt here is like if Bob Backlund had cleanly pinned Shawn Michaels for the belt in 1996, having never left the company since the 70s. And then, if the rumour is true that this is building to Orton/Edge at Mania, that would be like building to a Backlund/Pedro Morales main event at Mania 13.

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1 hour ago, Greggulator said:

The Miz has lapped CM Punk's WWE career several times over by this point.

Yikes. Talk about a bad hot take. Name one Miz match that was as good as Punk vs Cena at Money In The Bank. The Miz is near the top of list of the most bland boring characters in a company full of them. And his ring work is even more bland. He's had almost no character progression in 10 years now. He's the poster boy for why today's WWE is ice cold. Punk was over with live crowds. Punk could work. Punk could talk. Punk had an aura. Miz is great at outside media. He's a pretty good promo when he's allowed to talk for himself (The Bryan stuff). But he's not good in the ring at all and he has ZERO aura.

Could you imagine Iron Sheik vs Hogan being on top in 1994? Or Andre vs Hogan on top in 1997? Yikes. Can we rename The Thunderdome to The Hamster Wheel? Fits current WWE much better. Because they put these guys on a hamster wheel where no one progresses or gets hot and we end up in the same place over and over again. Case in point, Survivor Series this year is in the exact same building on the same exact date where Miz cashed in on Orton the first time. Riveting.

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4 hours ago, RunningFromAmerica said:

The sad thing is there was a point not that long ago when DVDVR would have been 100% behind a Miz main-event push.

I'm only not behind it at this moment. Hell, I would have been much more fine with this had Orton not just won the belt.

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I dunno that I'd say Miz has had a better WWE career than Punk, but I think that's a valid take.  Punk was more of a money machine and is arguably a better worker.  Miz has had a very good 14-year-run that's seen him cycle through a variety of roles and spots on the card.  Most of that time has been spent in the upper midcard and he had a decent stint as a main eventer.  And he represents the company well at public appearances and charity gigs.  I dunno, to me, he maybe has a more complete well-rounded skill set than Punk.  I think he'd be liked a lot more by message board fans if he had "indy cred."

IMO, Miz has probably had the better career than Punk due to longevity (and lack of injuries).  Punk's best matches are probably better than Miz's best work and Punk was a money machine for the company.  That said, I'm skeptical we'd love Punk as much as we do if he'd stuck around and did a Jericho/Undertaker-like sink into the latter years of his career.  Jericho's later career wasn't looked on all that fondly between, say, the feud with HBK and the List and AEW jump.  As I recall, DVDVR mostly hated his feud with Punk.

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57 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

Orton winning the belt here is like if Bob Backlund had cleanly pinned Shawn Michaels for the belt in 1996,

 

that would've been awesome though

Psycho Reactionary Bob Backlund's one man war against the New Generation & Bret would play even better against HBK and the Proto-Attitude Era, and the Cross Face Chicken Wing was a superbly protected Great Equalizer.

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Grand Slam Champions: Bayley was the first, Asuka next and now Sasha Banks having held the WWE NXT Women's Championship, WWE RAW Women's Championship, WWE Smackdown Women's Championship and WWE Women's Tag Team Championships. Sasha's the only one to win all three in one year.

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To use an NFL analogy, it’s hard to compare Terrell Davis (Punk) to Frank Gore (Miz). Or an MLB analogy of Eric Gagne (Punk) vs Craig Kimbrel (Miz). One guy had a relatively short peak that exceeded the other guy’s peak, but the other guy had 3 or 4x as long a career. I do think Miz is a great glue guy and an asset to any promotion. 

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If the brands were combined Roman Reigns would be the champion and all the other discussion would be surrounding the I.C. title.  McIntyre had a solid run but him, Orton and The Miz are not really in The Big Dog's league right now. 

I think that's my issue. They are trying to tell me these people are world title material at a time when Roman is on the same event and it's night and day. 

Edited by Niners Fan in CT
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To be fair all three do have more behind them then say Jey Uso as challengers. Orton and Drew would have have been honestly solid challengers for Roman just a couple of months ago. 

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In 2009, Avatar was a smash hit beyond all expectations. Sam Worthington followed that up with Clash of the Titans - but then Wrath of the Titans basically fizzled, and that was the end of his career as leading man in blockbuster action films.

If you were a Hollywood producer and kept shoehorning Sam Worthington into these big budget movies, you'd be a laughing stock. But in wrestling, you're Vince McMahon.

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Okay. Here's my favorite Miz promo ever. It's when he was US champ feuding with MVP. It's a masterpiece. Miz takes the real life situation -- how many people legitimately hated him, how he was hazed and that fueled him. MVP's the number one contender, but he should still be in jail. And then Miz rants and gets some quality heat about why he's so important, etc. The blocking of this is also, awesome. It's like an Aaron Sorkin walk-and-talk and is perfect some someone who is metaphorically arriving in the spotlight. It explains his motivations, defines his character and he delivers it in a way where you want to see MVP -- or really anyone -- punch his dumb face. 

 

Here's Punk's legendary "Pipe Bomb" promo. And, a decade later, it's pretty stupid with mixed up motivations and a lot of cheap heat. The set-up for this is that Punk is facing John Cena and is threatening to walk away with the belt. That's great. Punk starts to rant about an unfair system. That's fine, and he gets "edgy" pops for talking about breaking the first wall and using "Dwayne" instead of The Rock. And he continues on about this stuff, is really whiny about not having his face on the billboards, and then heels on the crowd in a major way. And then he returns back to his edgy criticism about HHH being a doofus.

There's just a lot in this. Punk's supposed to be the anti-hero (hence the Austin shirt). But while Austin definitely was an antihero, he was also an everyman who we were supposed to identify with. Punk doesn't really do any of that here. He's a whiny crybaby and gets pops by giving a shout-out to Colt Cabana. The promo is supposed to build heat for his match with Cena, in Chicago where Punk's going to be lauded as a hero, and they have the whole "Punk Versus The World" bit lined up. (And, no, I do not believe he was going to leave. He introduces John Laurinitis as a character in this.)

IMO, this would have been a lot better with some tweaks. The same start: "I don't hate you, John. But I'm better than you. It's just you get the chances because you and Dwayne are Vince's golden boys. You get on the cups and get to be on billboards. I don't get those chances, and it's because I'm not afraid to tell it like it is. You know it. And these people know it, which is why they cheer me a lot more than they cheer you. So I'm going to win your belt and I'm going to leave with it where I'm actually appreciated."  

That Miz promo is just a better delivered promo. Punk's best promos, IMO, are when he's an evil sanctimonious straightedge leader tormenting Rey Mysterio's daughter or dressing like Jeff Hardy. But his shoot stuff was just a lot of cheap heat that pushed all of the right smark buttons. Miz's heat in the promo above was earned. 

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