Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Dolfan in NYC

Raw is MSG - 9/9/2019

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

I can accept Gable going over more than Ricochet wins everything.


Fantasy booking anyone but Corbin to the bitter end, eh? Y'all can send thoughts, prayers, vibes, and align all of your chakras: You're getting King Corbin.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but stop putting Austin on WWE TV. He isn't getting anyone else over, ever, and he's reminding everyone how much more interesting this show used to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Matt D said:

It's refreshing to see them build a PPV in advance with the Bray stuff without overshadowing the next show.

This.  

At first I thought they were missing a golden opportunity for the Fiend to show up at MSG of all places and throttle Austin, but then I remembered that Bray isn't even contesting for a title in the upcoming PPV.  So then I was like, "Hey, nice of them to sell the importance of championships for a change."

Also, I think they are trying to apply the lessons learned from the overexposure of Finn's Demon King gimmick and use the Fiend sparingly since he's already mega over.

Edited by J.T.
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have been cool with any of the other 15 winning. That is precisely why I confidently predicted Corbin winning.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, J.T. said:

This.  

At first I thought they were missing a golden opportunity for the Fiend to show up at MSG of all places and throttle Austin, but then I remembered that Bray isn't even contesting for a title in the upcoming PPV.  So then I was like, "Hey, nice of them to sell the importance of championships for a change."

Also, I think they are trying to apply the lessons learned from the overexposure of Finn's Demon King gimmick and use the Fiend sparingly since he's already mega over.

I'd argue that the Fiend is better defined and developed too. You can explain what the fiend is in a sentence. For the Demon King, it's a bit more of "well, this nerdy Venom fan spends six hours putting on facepaint and..."

I also can't explain Ember Moon in a sentence so it's not like this is the only thing they've developed poorly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

This guy has had entire governments chasing after him trying to at the very least to arrest him.  That alone should qualify as quality 24/7 champion material.   

 

Edited by hammerva
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

It's not the first time she's gone over and landed on her feet first. But that may have been the ugliest example of it.

Even when she does her twisting deal to the outside and lands on her feet, presumably knocking people down with the back of her arms (?), I hate it. It looks too much like a gymnastic routine when we know she has the goods to just put on a great pro wrestling performance without all that stuff.

But it's 2019. Nobody wants to cut a moonsault out of their repertoire. 

To be fair to Flair, Bayley was way too close to the corner for Charlotte’s moonsault. As soon as I saw that, I knew it would whiff.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell, to be honest, I kinda want to see Elias win tonight just to see how badly the fans crap on the finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I'd argue that the Fiend is better defined and developed too. You can explain what the fiend is in a sentence. For the Demon King, it's a bit more of "well, this nerdy Venom fan spends six hours putting on facepaint and..."

Nah.  The Demon King was a well developed gimmick during Finn's run in NXT and then he got brought up to speed when Finn gave us this marvelous lesson on Gaelic mythology.

The problem is that the Demon King gimmick was put out there almost immediately to put some fire under RAWs sagging ratings since Finn was mega over in NXT and the book needed something with molten heat to get RAW's main event hour over. 

I totally lay the blame for the ruination of the DK gimmick at the feet of WWE Creative.  The Demon King should've been brought out for big matches only, but the book overexposed Finn's gimmick in order to put asses in seats and keep prime time eyes glued to normal television.

Then Rollins fucked things up when he injured Finn and he's never really gotten back into the title picture after taking time off to rehab his shoulder.  More than enough time for Rollins to incorporate Finn's Sling Blade into his own arsenal!  Yay!

Edited by J.T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron “The Disappointer” Corbin is probably the lamest heel gimmick going these days and I’m not one of those guys who argues there’s no difference been heel heat and channel changing heat, but I thought he did fairly well in that triple threat. He needs to ditch that run around the post clothesline thing and putting on a half-Nelson for most of a 10 minute match but he’s gradually getting better. He just needs a gimmick that isn’t based around being everyone’s last choice, or go full bore into it and rename the Deep Six into the Let Down and the End of Days into the Unsubscriber. Being the face of waning audience attendance can’t turn out well in the long run though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron Corbin's gear went from TGIFridays manager to Florida man strolling into the gas station at 6 am for a pack of smokes and a can of Steel Reserve.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's the guy who gets consistently booed, so to the management that means he's an effective heel.

There's only one way to derail this, and I know it won't be easy, but...people are gonna have to start cheering him, ironically or otherwise.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baron Corbin to me is the pro wrestling version of "owning the libs".   I am sure that the good majority of people who support him do it because it drives people nuts.

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J.T. said:

If she's going to insist on using a big flippy move, I would suggest that she switch to the Moonsault Footstomp so that she doesn't take any knee bumps at all but again, I don't trust her not to totally fucking kill whomever she lands on.

That would be an awesome move that Charlotte is almost certainly fully capable of. The issue is that it looked like a murder any time Io Shirai did it, and Io is nearly a foot smaller and at least 20 lbs lighter. You are not wrong, the ribs of whoever took that would not be long for this world.

2 hours ago, J.T. said:

Also, I think they are trying to apply the lessons learned from the overexposure of Finn's Demon King gimmick and use the Fiend sparingly since he's already mega over.

Huh? I don't recall Finn's Demon King being overexposed at all. Doesn't feel like its even come up more than a dozen or so times on tv. The issue with the Demon King gimmick is that WWE wanted to turn cool face/body paint Finn would reserve for big matches like Mysterio and his super hero inspired outfits into a full blown supernatural gimmick. Finn doesn't have the chops for it and took forever to even put a real difference in there between himself. The gimmick needed wildly different mannerisms like Mutoh/Muta. Finn only just started to add some new moves the last time or two he used DK to create some difference.

1 hour ago, JonnyLaw said:

To be fair to Flair, Bayley was way too close to the corner for Charlotte’s moonsault. As soon as I saw that, I knew it would whiff.

Charlotte always leaves people too close when she hits. She just needs to give it up if she doesn't want to do the knee bump.

1 hour ago, J.T. said:

Then Rollins fucked things up when he injured Finn and he's never really gotten back into the title picture after taking time off to rehab his shoulder.  More than enough time for Rollins to incorporate Finn's Sling Blade into his own arsenal!  Yay!

Wasn't Rollns already using the Sling Blade before Finn even joined WWE?

Edited by Eivion
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, just drew said:

They cannot get out of their own way trying to get Seth Rollins over by having legends give him the rub. At the end of the day, it's still captain charisma-less. 

The opening segment was a microcosm of the haves and the have-nots. AJ came across the best against Austin. He felt like a real star, even as he played the whiny yokel heel. Braun showed natural charisma and wasn't overwhelmed by the moment.

Rollins felt like a fan who was just happy to be there. It didn't help that when he said he was the best wrestler in the world, the crowd groaned and booed. It's fascinating to watch how he comes out to strong pops every week, then see the enthusiasm die as he starts talking.

Rollins is far from my favorite, but I don't think he's a total waste of time. Yet whenever he's put into a big moment, he often doesn't meet the mark. Whether it's with a bad promo or not keeping the crowd invested, something doesn't click. Fans can be fickle (TM) and do their own thing at times. But it happens a lot to Rollins. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That woman’s tag match was awesome. It was seriously one of my favorite matches in a long time. I loved that it started with Becky and Charlotte just saying “F this” and the brawl started. Bayley is a great little weasel and this is the best form of Sasha. I really liked how there was no teased fight between Becky and Charlotte but it was referenced. They are adults and put that away in order to fight their mutual enemies. Great great match.

Baron Corbin is great and an awesome heel. He has good nasty looking offense, a lot of good “out of nowhere” moves to crush a comeback, cheap shot nonsense and makes great facial expressions. 

Want to know why he gets pushed? He plays to the back of the room. He exaggerates so much of his movements (while still looking believable) that you can realize what a jerk he is all the way up in the outer reaches of the upper deck. There are a lot of technically better people, but there aren’t a lot of wrestlers who do that like he does. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Huh? I don't recall Finn's Demon King being overexposed at all. Doesn't feel like its even come up more than a dozen or so times on tv.

Even that was too many times.  Special gimmicks should only be brought out on special occasions like when Undertaker would try to save the Tombstone for PPVs and mostly used the Choke Slam finisher on regular television.

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

.Wasn't Rollns already using the Sling Blade before Finn even joined WWE?

He used it a few times in RoH but it was noticeably absent from his arsenal during his Shield and solo heel days.   Maybe it's me, but he seemed to use it a lot more often once Finn started using it when he got called up to RAW.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

The opening segment was a microcosm of the haves and the have-nots. AJ came across the best against Austin. He felt like a real star, even as he played the whiny yokel heel. Braun showed natural charisma and wasn't overwhelmed by the moment.

Rollins felt like a fan who was just happy to be there. It didn't help that when he said he was the best wrestler in the world, the crowd groaned and booed. It's fascinating to watch how he comes out to strong pops every week, then see the enthusiasm die as he starts talking.

Rollins is far from my favorite, but I don't think he's a total waste of time. Yet whenever he's put into a big moment, he often doesn't meet the mark. Whether it's with a bad promo or not keeping the crowd invested, something doesn't click. Fans can be fickle (TM) and do their own thing at times. But it happens a lot to Rollins. 

I heard that and thought about the weekly conversations had here about him. I know some see my disdain for him as irrational, but I’m just stumped as to what they’ve seen from the guy to make him think he’s gonna lead their company anywhere. Especially as a babyface. As the sniveling heel champ he was at least believable. But him making the claim that he was the best wrestler on earth with AJ styles and ricochet on the same card is patently ridiculous. I hope that Wwe understands why they couldn’t sell out their home arena and adjusts accordingly. I feel like they have to strike while the iron is hot with the fiend, have him put down every threat in his path until someone sympathetic (my pick would be Ali or Ricochet) wins the Rumble. Lord forbid they have an underdog babyface that’s actually likeable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Even that was too many times.  Special gimmicks should only be brought out on special occasions like when Undertaker would try to save the Tombstone for PPVs and mostly used the Choke Slam finisher on regular television.

He used it a few times in RoH but it was noticeably absent from his arsenal during his Shield and solo heel days.   Maybe it's me, but he seemed to use it a lot more often once Finn started using it when he got called up to RAW.

Rollins was regularly using it when Finn came to NXT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Baron Corbin's gear went from TGIFridays manager to Florida man strolling into the gas station at 6 am for a pack of smokes and a can of Steel Reserve.

I already brought up him moving to line cook at the O'Charley's. That fits pretty perfectly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"BURN IT DOWN"  is more over than Seth Rollins.  I will say this,  he got massively over having back and forth PWG like matches so I don't think he's a bad guy to have in a prominent role but he is definitely not the right guy to be a long reigning world heavyweight champion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PB-13 said:

He's the guy who gets consistently booed, so to the management that means he's an effective heel.

 

I mean,  isn't getting consistantly booed the whole point of  being an effective heel?  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBF, a big reason ticket sales for the two MSG shows are slow are high prices. Most fans don't want to spend that much for a regular TV taping when school just started back and the holidays are around the corner. Seeing Austin and Taker is nice, but not at that price under everyday circumstances.

One of Rollins' biggest problems is he doesn't carry himself like a star. I've had several folks say being in an arena where other wrestlers own the stage. They give a sense of belonging. For whatever reason, Rollins doesn't give that vibe. They're trying to make him and Becky into the new power couple with the red carpets and magazine covers. I don't think it's working. We all know that anyone in that spot is being promoted and pushed by WWE to be there. I's not a question of it feeling artificial because of that. What we have is a guy being pushed as someone opposite of who he really is. It weighs down the energy around him.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Rollins was regularly using it when Finn came to NXT.

Yeah, I don't really recall that.  I mostly remember Rollins using the Sling Blade as a Hope Spot move during that weird time when WWE made him change his finisher.

Edited by J.T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really have no horses in the race (won't make that stupid mistake again), so to each his or her own.

Under the radar news item: Roman got a haircut. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, PB-13 said:

He's the guy who gets consistently booed, so to the management that means he's an effective heel.

There's only one way to derail this, and I know it won't be easy, but...people are gonna have to start cheering him, ironically or otherwise.

This but unironically.

X-Pac Heat has lost all its meaning over the last 20 years.

X-Pac Heat took a very unique situation where fans rose up as one to say "Fuck X-Pac", where he was the one member of Team WWF who the fans refused to accept as a babyface- accepting even his tag partner Albert as a face, but saying "No. You can't make us like X-Pac",  cheering Billy Kidman's charismaless ass solely because he fought X-Pac, taking lulls in the show to talk about how much X-Pac sucked.

The last 20 years has turned it into 'I personally dislike the work of this heel performer, so I'm assuming literally every other fan in the world also dislikes their work and are booing them because they hate them personally, so they cannot possibly be an effective heel because I dislike them and I can't possibly be being worked, I'm ME!"

It's not Corbin's fault he's an effective heel, he's an effective heel because smarks decided to forget to a heel performer, BOOS ARE THEIR CHEERS! When you cheer a heel performer you like, YOU'RE NOT HELPING! You're only saying that the heel performer sucks as a heel because they can't get you to boo them no matter how evil they act, and in the process making your favorite look inept at their job...and in the process making people like Corbin look like they're amazing at their job because they can get you to hate them...and in the process the show is terrible.

If Batman's Rogues Gallery was less Joker, Catwoman, The Riddler, The Penguin...and more "Jeff, the cashier at Walmart who didn't give you all your bags" or 'Cindy, the barista at Starbucks who gave you regular milk instead of soy", Batman would suck- because people who are inept at their jobs aren't exciting bad guys. 

 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...