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JUNE 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION - Thread 2

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Posted (edited)

LU didn't get really good until Matanza Cueto showed up, IMO. The problem with LU was that it got good in season two, stayed good in season three, and then fell off a cliff in season four. 

AEW, on the other hand, seems to be coming in hot, though of course that's off the back of one-off shows and not weekly TV like Nitro was doing when it started hot. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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I blame the fans.

Also, Scott Keith.

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1 minute ago, Matt D said:

I blame the fans.

Also, Scott Keith.

I don't know what this is in response to, but you're 100% right. 

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@Tromatagon You can’t make the LU comparisons with AEW. AEW is designed to be a traveling wrestling show. LU was a novela with wrestling as the backdrop. Like you said they were on a channel that nobody. It’s if WMAC Masters decided to film TV at MSG, and nobody showed up because maybe the masked ninjas in Florida have heard of you, but I bet no ninja in New York has heard of Willie “Bam” Johnson.

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11 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I blame the fans.

Also, Scott Keith.

I still glance over at SK occasionally, but is he really that big of a voice in IWC circles anymore? I'd say not unless you started reading him 18 years ago like I did.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I still glance over at SK occasionally, but is he really that big of a voice in IWC circles anymore? I'd say not unless you started reading him 18 years ago like I did.

Nah, but that's because Twitter has come about and made Scott Keiths of us all. 

Truly, we live in the Information Age. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I still glance over at SK occasionally, but is he really that big of a voice in IWC circles anymore? I'd say not unless you started reading him 18 years ago like I did.

Seth Rollins, WWE Poster Child, is the bitter end of a decades' long monkey's paw wish. We're all complicit in our own way. 

All of us.

Even DEAN who somehow hated Mocho Cota at one point. 

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7 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Even DEAN who somehow hated Mocho Cota at one point. 

Dean drank.... a lot...

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Jesus, I haven't thought about Scott Keith in years. I think you hit the nail on the head with the Twitter thing. It was such a weird situation back then where you had guys trying to have "personality" on this still-sorta-infant internet. Obviously RSPW and things like that sort of pre-date me, and I didn't start coming here til high school, but as a middle school/early high school kid I was real into SK, Scotsman, The Rick, Chris Hyatte. That dude Eric S. on 411 who was like the first person I ever saw talk openly about mental health stuff really anywhere. I still never figured out if Hyatte getting catfished by someone pretending to be Trish Stratus was real.

9 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Nah, but that's because Twitter has come about and made Scott Keiths of us all. 

Truly, we live in the Information Age. 

 

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2 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Dean drank.... a lot...

I get that 93-on (post jail) Cota was about as anti-workrate as you can get, but how do you hate this?

Image result for mocho cotaImage result for mocho cota

You figure alcohol would make you love it more?

We created Seth Rollins. We are all to blame. 

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Seth makes me wish Brock was still champ. I can live with that monkeys paw wish.

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7 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Seth Rollins, WWE Poster Child, is the bitter end of a decades' long monkey's paw wish. We're all complicit in our own way. 

All of us.

Even DEAN who somehow hated Mocho Cota at one point. 

Explain. Is this because we complained about the mediocre hoss era of the mid-'00s, and now Rollins is the anti-hoss, a dude that flops around like a trout on dry land and does everything at two-hundred miles per hour, as a response? 

Or is it because we trumpeted Papa HHH running NXT and now his favorite wrestler on the roster is writing out grating Twitter posts that we all read in Seth's (pronoun check!) nasally, irritating voice?

Or is it something else? Also, don't blame me, I haven't seen an actual WWE show in almost three years and I've seen only a small handful of promos and backstage skits in that time. 

Speaking of which, two observations/questions: First, Billie Kay and Peyton Royce are so dreadful backstage that watching their shitty delusional heel interviews gave me kidney stones. And they're one of the things people praise as really good on these modern shows! I can only imagine what the rest of these shows are like. I watched a few of them because someone kept telling me that I had to see them and they were excremental.

Second, is there a bigger gap between "great when the wrestler does it, abjectly awful when the fans do it" than Steve Austin's WHAT?! stuff. Him doing it as a paranoid heel still kills me. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure he was joking gosh

but for fucks sake Billie Kay is a treasure

Edited by Tromatagon
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1 hour ago, SturmCRF said:

I don't think you can separate the wrestling from the other stuff cleanly though. Context matters, and if two wrestlers are having a match for stupidly explained reasons, or they're having a fundamentally well worked match that nobody cares about because it's their fifth together in two months, it's a less enjoyable match to watch.

You're not wrong and I totally agree, but Seth's statement specifically took the in-ring action out of context for the point he was making. Suggesting he was defending the creative isn't fair because that isn't the point he was trying to make - and I'm guessing that he was as specific as he was because he knows better than to make that defense. 

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I could make a powerpoint presentation about how Meltzer undervaluing minimalistic crowd manipulation in the mid-80s took us on a straight line through the early internet era into the super-indy era to the apocalyptic crossfit social media wasteland of today, but I probably have an actual work powerpoint presentation I need to make instead?

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4 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

I'm pretty sure he was joking gosh

but for fucks sake Billie Kay is a treasure

She's terrible.

To me, you can tell that she came up through a development process that focused more on WWE-style promo delivery and less on cutting flash promos off the top of your head because the backstage stuff I saw from her seems a bit freer and less scripted, and she's really not good at improv.  

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3 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I could make a powerpoint presentation about how Meltzer undervaluing minimalistic crowd manipulation in the mid-80s took us on a straight line through the early internet era into the super-indy era to the apocalyptic crossfit social media wasteland of today, but I probably have an actual work powerpoint presentation I need to make instead?

This is your one chance in life to be the Super Sasadango Machine and you're pissing it away.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

"Took his ball and went home" is such a Vince-ism that Seth's ass is probably sore from having the old man's arm up there.

Love the avatar. So appropriate with the quote, tough guy.

Edited by The Great ML
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I like Billie Kay's personality, but I don't understand how she went to NXT and got worse there and then went to the main roster and got even worse there, but her personality is still pretty funny and that's improved.

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9 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I could make a powerpoint presentation about how Meltzer undervaluing minimalistic crowd manipulation in the mid-80s took us on a straight line through the early internet era into the super-indy era to the apocalyptic crossfit social media wasteland of today, but I probably have an actual work powerpoint presentation I need to make instead?

I can see this argument. The modern WWE worker is typically influenced by coming up in the Internet Era, which valued pace and flip-filled movesets, and you can absolutely draw a line between Meltzer's influence, whether direct or indirect, among internet hardcores and the people who became wrestlers under that influence, like, say, Seth Rollins.

Obviously, there are other factors at play, like MMA taking quite a few of the football players and collegiate wrestlers out of the pool of workers and leaving us with the internet geeks who did aerobics for thirty minutes a match on the indies as the biggest part of the wrestler pool, or like Southern-style wrestling being dead once WCW went down for the count in 2001, but sure, I see where you're coming from. 

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Scott Keith? Is he still in the league?

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35 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I could make a powerpoint presentation about how Meltzer undervaluing minimalistic crowd manipulation in the mid-80s took us on a straight line through the early internet era into the super-indy era to the apocalyptic crossfit social media wasteland of today, but I probably have an actual work powerpoint presentation I need to make instead?

You're banned if you don't.

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22 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I can see this argument. The modern WWE worker is typically influenced by coming up in the Internet Era, which valued pace and flip-filled movesets, and you can absolutely draw a line between Meltzer's influence, whether direct or indirect, among internet hardcores and the people who became wrestlers under that influence, like, say, Seth Rollins.

Obviously, there are other factors at play, like MMA taking quite a few of the football players and collegiate wrestlers out of the pool of workers and leaving us with the internet geeks who did aerobics for thirty minutes a match on the indies as the biggest part of the wrestler pool, or like Southern-style wrestling being dead once WCW went down for the count in 2001, but sure, I see where you're coming from. 

I blame those two RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches. I'm only partly kidding.

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Today I stopped by the Target and saw they had an Elite Red Rooster figure.

Only in the box it wasn't Red Rooster.

It was John Cena's head. And Drew Gulak's basic(not even Elite articulation!) figure body and tights.

I thought man, what a weird combination that would be in real life, if Drew Gulak was John Cena's minion.

Then I thought - I probably still wouldn't like that as much as Terry Taylor.

Enjoy one of my favorite Terry Taylor matches!

 

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9 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I blame those two RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches. I'm only partly kidding.

You can actually blame ECW for a lot of what's wrong with the current wrestling scene and I'm only partially kidding. Hear me out, ECW did one thing that left a permanent footprint in pro wrestling, it diverged into two extremes, on one side you had the Sabu, Dreamer, Sandman brawling and borderline deathmatch stuff that evolved (if that's really the word I'm groping for) into CZW, IWA Mid South and your general run-of-the-mill yardtards with weed-whackers and light tubes carving one another up. The other branch took the super-soft acrobatic nonsense of RVD and became the flippy-floppy MOVEZ stuff so beloved by self-trained indy geeks who spent too much time on a trampoline and watching RVD and not nearly enough time learning fundamentals. 

There's a happy medium, but of course that involves serious work, training by a proven professional and in short a lot more effort than a lot of folks are willing to put in.

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