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JUNE 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION - Thread 2

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25 minutes ago, Craig H said:

You don't expect the anti-establishment dude who's always wearing Black Craft Cult shit to be Mr. Company Man.

Don't worry. When it's time for him to move on, he'll do his obligatory shoot as part of the post-WWE attention seeking ritual. Then everyone will love him again.

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7 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Dave and%or Dave's agent have been smart so far: bond movie, blade runner and Marvel movies. Good solid nerd resume. 

Even beyond that, Batista's best quality about his acting skills might be just how self-aware he is of his skills and limitations.

Unlike most actors, Batista seems to at least know what his limitation as an actor is: He's best used as the "big imposing-looking lead henchman who can carry a scene or two and give you a good 'first boss' fight for the hero", and so most of his movies use him as basically that.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Craig H said:

 And then later in this article is another quote from Rollins where it's up to the talent to make their voice heard, which was the exact fucking thing Moxley was doing.

 

People who universalize their experience and try to apply it to everyone else are so short sighted and ignorant.  "It worked this way for me so why can't it work for you?"  It's such a pet peeve of mine.  Austin and Rock, both, I think, said the same shit.  "You just gotta go knock down Vince's door and tell him your ideas!  It's what I did!"  Like Vince would have listened to day 2 Ringmaster Steve Austin with the same fervor he listened to million dollar earner Stone Cold.  What a fucking joke.  HHH and Vince listen to Rollins?  Cool.  It doesn't mean they'll listen to people they don't see as important or see as slotted at a certain spot like Ambrose.

47 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

 

Again, though: that wasn't the argument being presented. He specified in-ring wrestling, not anything else.

And the example he used was really a damning indictment of WWE, so that's just hilarious.  "We're awesome!  Did you people see that cruiserweight 3 way?!?!"  Oh, the three way between guys Vince couldn't pick out of a lineup in a division the company ignores?  That's the top guy's standard bearer example of how awesome their wrestling is?  LOOOOL amazing.

 

PS I got no dog in this fight.  I fast forward Will Ospreay's matches.  I just don't find his style entertaining.

Edited by Technico Support

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4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

People who universalize their experience and try to apply it to everyone else are so short sighted and ignorant.  "It worked this way for me so why can't it work for you?"  It's such a pet peeve of mine.  Austin and Rock, both, I think, said the same shit.  "You just gotta go knock down Vince's door and tell him your ideas!  It's what I did!"  Like Vince would have listened to day 2 Ringmaster Steve Austin with the same fervor he listened to million dollar earner Stone Cold.  What a fucking joke.  HHH and Vince listen to Rollins?  Cool.  It doesn't mean they'll listen to people they don't see as important or see as slotted at a certain spot like Ambrose.

The thing that was most frustrating about Rollins' interview is that he's well aware of the interviews Moxley has done. He's well aware that Moxley did everything Seth said you should do, which is raise your voice and blah blah blah. Shit, Moxley flew to Vince when his rehab was wrapping up to show him how invested he was in his own return and he wanted to plan out his return, but Vince wasn't having it. Moxley beat down Vince's door so many times. Also, he took his ball and went home? He completely fulfilled all of his obligations and didn't renew his contract. That's not taking your ball and going home. By that logic, everyone in American, Rollins included, should feel complacent for where they're at and never seek something better.

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"Took his ball and went home" is such a Vince-ism that Seth's ass is probably sore from having the old man's arm up there.

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15 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

Even beyond that, Batista's best quality about his acting skills might be just how self-aware he is of his skills and limitations.

Unlike most actors, Batista seems to at least know what his limitation as an actor is: He's best used as the "big imposing-looking lead henchman who can carry a scene or two and give you a good 'first boss' fight for the hero", and so most of his movies use him as basically that.

This is spot on! To quote the great Clint Eastwood, "A man's gotta know his limitations!" In Clint's case he spent years learning his craft as an actor before moving up from the role as the mostly laconic hero who would get a few choice lines to a complete package as an actor, director, etc. 

Dave is very self-aware and it's quite refreshing to see someone in hollywood that knows what they can do well and sticks with it as they learn their craft. No one expects big Dave to be the next Laurence Olivier, and that's perfectly fine. What we are getting is a guy that gradually is handed more and larger roles as he proves that he can handle them. 

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Why is Seth being interviewed by Bleacher Report anyway? Isn't that a bit like Kenny Omega being interviewed by wwe.com?

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Speaking of Rollins, now he's starting to really annoy me with this whole shtick of being a total company man:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2842662-seth-rollins-responds-to-jon-moxley-bashing-wwe-defends-vince-mcmahon-creative?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Just a couple things here. One, it's really shitty to claim that someone you call a friend and a brother can't handle the rigors of WWE and take issue with him citing how bad the booking is. Moxley took all of the bullshit that Vince and creative shoveled his way and he did his best to turn it into gold. And then later in this article is another quote from Rollins where it's up to the talent to make their voice heard, which was the exact fucking thing Moxley was doing.

His comments about Moxley are about the shittiest thing ever. If Rollins were a friend of mine saying this shit about me, he wouldn't be a friend anymore.

What's bad is I kind of get Seth's point.  He can look at Becky who had to put up with things from Irish stereotypical characters to just being lost in the shuffle.  But however she got to be The Man she got there and that's great for her.  So he sees that and thinks "Well, shit, it worked out for her so surely it can work for anybody."  Except that's not always the case and he isn't the guy to talk.  From the start of NXT he was seen as their guy and I don't recall him having to deal with BS like Dean did.  But with Dean once they split up Shield he was pigeonholed as the wacky guy and nothing would convince Vince otherwise.  So if one can't understand somebody else's perspective and situation then you end up with what Seth said.  But it's sad that he would publicly respond the way he did and especially if he didn't try and discuss that with Jon first.

But even though he's having that pointless and idiotic exchange with Ospreay I still don't hate the guy.  He's a pretty good wrestler and is capable of having good to great matches.  Heck, for Raw main events he works just fine in that role.  But with all this I just shake my head in dismay more than anything.  i figure at least he's not some true shithead like Hogan and Warrior and I'd rather reserve that hatred for Vince and Dunn anyway.  Plus he has Becky so he can't truly be that bad, right?  It's best for his sake to just let this blow over.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

"Took his ball and went home" is such a Vince-ism that Seth's ass is probably sore from having the old man's arm up there.

I just read that too in the BR article and if it isn't working, that's pretty crappy. Like, "Syxx couldn't cut the mustard" levels of dickery.

Austin took his ball and went home, so did Punk, Neville, Sasha whoever else. Moxley stayed the whole length of his deal and just went to play ball with other kids who don't make up shitty rules as they go along.

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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5 minutes ago, AxB said:

Why is Seth being interviewed by Bleacher Report anyway? Isn't that a bit like Kenny Omega being interviewed by wwe.com?

He wasn't

He was on a Sports Illustrated podcast

BR just recapped what was said - they just were the first ones to do it

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9 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Plus he has Becky so he can't truly be that bad, right?  It's best for his sake to just let this blow over.

He better not fuck that up. She probably has the dick pics, and she might be living her gimmick.

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Seth is in his feelings because his dream was to be WWE Champion and now he's here and it's at the absolute worst time since like 1996. Yes,  the business side is making money hand over fist but the writing is on the wall.  Ratings are way down.  Live attendance is way down.  The online community is shitting on WWE every day.  He's stuck in worthless feuds with Baron Corbin where he isn't even going to be able to perform at a high level because the story they are telling has nothing to do with wrestling. 

Seth had no other choice but to try to validate his position and in turn back the company he works for.  But then he got worked into a shoot because everyone dumped on him.  

Not making excuses for his tweets at all because he's coming off as a clown but I think this is how we got here.  It's only going to get worse too with all the AEW stuff on the horizon and the new FOX deal which seems destined to fail.  I don't think WWE is in trouble now but in 4-5 years?  I could see it..  and Seth will be one of the guys known for being one of the THE guys who helped tank the business. Right or wrong. We all know it's creative but I don't think history will be kind to Seth. 

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3 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

He better not fuck that up. She probably has the dick pics, and she might be living her gimmick.

She seems like an absolute sweetheart and I haven't heard one bad thing about her (and if there is I just haven't seen/heard it yet)  So if Seth fucks this up then boy would he be 60 levels of stupid.

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13 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Plus he has Becky so he can't truly be that bad, right? 

Is that how relationships work? 

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I had a friend at the show on Sunday who told me that the show was fun, and the crowd was good, but that they chanted "C.M. Punk" during Seth's match, which honestly might be the nadir of being champ in that company. Having a title match where you're supposed to be the company's face and you get chants for Punk. I'm sure it drove him completely over the edge if he wasn't already there.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Is that how relationships work? 

I might not have fully thought that part through so my apologies.  But I still maintain that who his girlfriend is aside I like various things about him and don't hate him like I would certain others.  But while I don't expect him to reverse course (too late now) he would be best off just dropping this.

Edited by NikoBaltimore

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Posted (edited)

Man the WWE guy and the New Japan guy sure have people talking about everything but Fyter Fest, which is pretty hilarious even though not intended.

Edited by Tromatagon
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1 minute ago, Tromatagon said:

Man the WWE guy and the New Japan guy sure have people talking about everything but Fyter Fest

Speak for yourself, sir.  I think I managed to get three lapsed fans to check out the show and I hope it's good enough for them to consider following AEW.  I guess we'll see after Saturday.

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2 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

Man the WWE guy and the New Japan guy sure have people talking about everything but Fyter Fest

VincE-Russo-WWE-696x404.jpg

“I knew it, Bro.”

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1 minute ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Speak for yourself, sir.  I think I managed to get three lapsed fans to check out the show and I hope it's good enough for them to consider following AEW.  I guess we'll see after Saturday.

I did this stuff with Lucha Underground and then it got bad and died so I don't have the heart to do it again.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

Man the WWE guy and the New Japan guy sure have people talking about everything but Fyter Fest, which is pretty hilarious even though not intended.

It's probably the most encouraging thing you could say about Kenny that he hasn't wandered into a petulant "best in the world" twitter debate--especially considering its largely between the guy New Japan slotted into his old spot, and another guy who has name checked him a couple times while swiping moves.

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It's because Kenny is too good for that.  He's too good for the zero chill wrestling scene for the most part.  I don't feel like Seth or Will are smart enough to consciously try to use this to draw press away from Fyter Fest or anything, it's just kind of funny that it's happening.

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4 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I had a friend at the show on Sunday who told me that the show was fun, and the crowd was good, but that they chanted "C.M. Punk" during Seth's match, which honestly might be the nadir of being champ in that company. Having a title match where you're supposed to be the company's face and you get chants for Punk. I'm sure it drove him completely over the edge if he wasn't already there.

Seth can't blame creative (I suppose he could but..) so who else is left to blame?  The fans.  But here's the thing,  the match received those chants because it was a fucking terrible boring mess.  Nobody cares about Corbin.  Sorry,  I know some people like her character but nobody cares about Lacey Evans either.  They proceed to have this terribly booked predictable match that really belonged on maybe an episode of RAW,   not a PPV main event.   So of course fans were going to shit on it.  They popped for Becky so I suppose people in the back where like "SEE! It worked! HAR HAR"  but nah..  it didn't work.  They popped to see her but they also popped because her coming out ended the boring shit they were given. If it truly worked then people would want to pay to see Lacey or Corbin get their ass kicked or people would want to tune into RAW to see it..   that's not happening so it is clearly not working and Seth can bitch and moan it is his own creative team that is shitting the bed and it starts with Vince. 

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1 minute ago, Tromatagon said:

I did this stuff with Lucha Underground and then it got bad and died so I don't have the heart to do it again.

 

Well for starters AEW isn't in a contract situation with AAA like LU was so for that I like their chances.  At least if things go belly up with the AAA collaboration they won't be up shit creek.  And yeah, I think I'm trying to get people into it like you were with LU.  But I also feel way more optimistic about their chances than I did with LU even though some friends dug the first two seasons.

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It's got a way better chance.  Hell, it's on a network available in more than ten homes.

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