The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Curt McGirt]

That early years photo of Chris and Tammy is so bittersweet. 

[Dog]

Tonight's the night. 

[odessasteps]

The producers of Dark Side were on a certain podcast this week. Haven't listened yet. 

[Cobra Commander]

The layout of this episode was probably as good as you could hope for.. there wasn't really any of a "look and gawk at how messed up Tammy got" show. The episode really spent a minute or two on her post-Chris life, which is probably for the best.

Also I've vaulted myself into the 2000s technologically by DVRing this episode (since the Royals game didn't end until like 9:04 anyways) so I saw most of the episode live.

[ka-to]

This might have been the saddest episode. The stuff with his mother didn't add up with Chris' grand father being Chuck Richards, the WWWF prelim guy. I remember seeing Chuck and some cute girl (Tammy) sitting at the top of the bleachers at some high school whey they were so young.

[TheVileOne]

Chris & Tammy is like the ultimate cautionary wrestling tale. It was a good subject for this series. I'm very glad they had Mick Foley and Lance Storm in there for testimonials. I feel really bad for Candido's family more than anything.

I think Foley's comments at least made me empathetic to Tammy to some degree. While it's hard for me to feel bad for her anymore, I get the sense from Foley's comments that she was an impressionable young woman who had a natural mind and talent for the business, and other guys didn't like it. She fell prey to bad influences. 

At the same time, I have my breaking point with certain people. Just like with Brian Pillman. Pillman might have been one of the greatest and most groundbreaking workers of his era that ushered in things that were commonplace in the Attitude Era and helped bring that junior-heavy style to mainstream wrestling, but it's hard for me to have a positive opinion about Pillman as a person after watching his Dark Side episode. 

[odessasteps]

The Dark Side producer said they always wanted it to be a Chris episode that Tammy was in and not a Chris and Tammy episode. And they talked to her off and on about participating but ultimately her criminal lawyers advised her against it. 

[hammerva]

I knew that Chris broke his ankle in that cage match but I completely forgot that the main issue was that he was trying to avoid a cameraman INSIDE THE RING.   Cameraman inside a cage for a better view is nothing new but inside the ring while they are working.   TNA everybody.

Also thinks it is funny that Candido's mother didn't know or understand why he was wrestling with a baby bonnet on his head in SMW.  It isn't like he was brought in that way.  

 

Edited May 31 by hammerva

[Cobra Commander]

They had to have mentioned the 2000 WCW stint and I just wasn’t paying attention, right? It seemed like the narrative quickly went from them losing their house fronting money for ECW to an unnamed Puerto Rican independent.

I think the name changes were Candito to Candido due to… reasons preceding Smoky, and Sytch to Fytch because Jim Cornette misheard Chris on the phone.

[SirSmUgly]

Paul Heyman isn't quite a Vince Jr. level scumbag, but man does he come close. 

[Curt McGirt]

All three people in a row breaking down had to be a record. If you can get Corny... man, Chris was loved.

[Technico Support]

9 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I think Foley's comments at least made me empathetic to Tammy to some degree. While it's hard for me to feel bad for her anymore, I get the sense from Foley's comments that she was an impressionable young woman who had a natural mind and talent for the business, and other guys didn't like it. She fell prey to bad influences. 

Foley's point about her being a woman in a man's industry was so on point.  Man going for what he wants = strong guy, admirable.  Woman going for what she wants = what a bitch.  A woman acting the way Hogan, Michaels, or any of these other guys did would have been blackballed.  How many stories of women being "dIfFiCuLt" in WWE have we heard?

[Dolphman 3000]

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

Paul Heyman isn't quite a Vince Jr. level scumbag, but man does he come close. 

yeah I didn't remember Tammy's on-camera ECW interview at all, that was horrifying

I do remember Heyman supposedly making Tammy and Chris promise to get college degrees before they could go back on the road for ECW, but I don't see how shaming them publicly would help with that

[SirSmUgly]

19 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Foley's point about her being a woman in a man's industry was so on point.  Man going for what he wants = strong guy, admirable.  Woman going for what she wants = what a bitch.  A woman acting the way Hogan, Michaels, or any of these other guys did would have been blackballed.  How many stories of women being "dIfFiCuLt" in WWE have we heard?

Yeah, this is why so many Succession watchers act like Shiv is the absolute worst person alive in the history of ever, but her fascist brother and dipshit naked power-grabber other brother are somehow sympathetic. 

People DO NOT like ambitious women.

And when you make this critique, people divert by pretending that you think these IRL and TV character women are angels or something. Someone can be a bad person and still be a victim of sexism, geez. 

[SirSmUgly]

4 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

yeah I didn't remember Tammy's on-camera ECW interview at all, that was horrifying

People at the time compared it to Vince interviewing Melanie Pillman the Monday after Brian Pillman's death, which was apt. 

[Cobra Commander]

1 hour ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

I do remember Heyman supposedly making Tammy and Chris promise to get college degrees before they could go back on the road for ECW

did Heyman actually go to college because... well...

[odessasteps]

3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

They had to have mentioned the 2000 WCW stint and I just wasn’t paying attention, right? It seemed like the narrative quickly went from them losing their house fronting money for ECW to an unnamed Puerto Rican independent.

I think the name changes were Candito to Candido due to… reasons preceding Smoky, and Sytch to Fytch because Jim Cornette misheard Chris on the phone.

Either way, convenient it rhymes with Bitch. 

The pretty blonde who just wants to emulate her hero Hillary Clinton,  unsurpsingly got over 30 years ago and the Progressive Liberal gets the same heat today, in many of the same places. 

[Cobra Commander]

I didn't pay deep attention to Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard but I believe that formula of getting heat is still working pretty well to this day

[Sparkleface]

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

People DO NOT like ambitious women.

I'm the only woman in my workplace's leadership meetings.

I'm the only one consistently talked over, talked down to, or dismissed without thought on regular basis.

I've been told it's a coincidence.

Ha.

[Technico Support]

Is this the first example of Vince's kink for booking a real life couple in ways that may cause difficulty in their relationship because he probably thinks the woman is out of the man's league?

[odessasteps]

Given the lack of female on screen talent (except Liz and Sherri) until the Attitude Era, probably. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 hours ago, hammerva said:

I knew that Chris broke his ankle in that cage match but I completely forgot that the main issue was that he was trying to avoid a cameraman INSIDE THE RING.   Cameraman inside a cage for a better view is nothing new but inside the ring while they are working.   TNA everybody.

Also thinks it is funny that Candido's mother didn't know or understand why he was wrestling with a baby bonnet on his head in SMW.  It isn't like he was brought in that way.  

 

You would see that sometimes in WCW as well especially when they kept doing different iterations of a cage match (in addition to sitting on a corner of the cage). The excuse was always trying to get some new, innovative camera shot.

Then, even when they weren't technically in the ring, you would have Jackie Crockett and the other cameramen on the "fat man camera stand" right up on the ring. There were many a time when some guy would go flying into them and knock them over. So you basically have a POV of what happens when the camera goes up in the air and rotates down to the floor. Always hilarious.

[Peck]

4 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

All three people in a row breaking down had to be a record. If you can get Corny... man, Chris was loved.

I’ve mentioned this before(probably in this very thread) but I could listen to Historian Cornette for hours upon hours. Podcast Cornette is a totally different story/gimmick.

[zendragon]

Sunny comes across as someone where at some point you stop feeling sorry for and just start saying “that’s on you”. Certainly not the first person who’s fame and success went to their head.

 I totally agree with Chris being somewhat of a trailblazer, V Storm at Heatwave 98 would fit right in on any big NXT show or AEW PPV 

[hammerva]

There is no doubt that if Candido was alive today he would be a really big deal in the indies   Guys like Ricky Morton are still more than capable of having strong matches and Chris is probably 20 years younger.    Can you imagine what a Candido vs Orange Cassidy match would be.   I know that GCW would have booked Candido vs Joey Janela at one point.