Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
RIPPA

STAR WARS: LAST JEDI DISCUSSION (OH SO MANY SPOILERS HERE)

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Control said:

I really wanted a Luke scene like the Vader scene in ROGUE ONE.

Yeah. I know what we got was objectively a very powerful display, but I was having Dark Empire flashbacks...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Eivion said:

Finished it up a couple of hours ago and absolutely loved it. Thought it was the best film since the original trilogy. Loved the twists they did and how they handled Rey and Kylo's characters. I thought this did a much better job of introducing/using the new generation of characters. Its not perfect with a few holes, but nothing for me that was truly big enough to really hurt it.

I am left wondering though how they handle things now with Fisher's passing. Feels like it was only just the beginning of the torch passing with her and Poe.

She dies in between films. Her brother and daughter (who got a noticably larger role) both have given permission to manipulate any footage they want if they want to use her, and they seem to have said no. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kylo is the most complex character in franchise history. Loved every moment of the Kylo/Rey stuff.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing I wanted that I didn't get was Luke lifting the x wing out of the water to make his return. Would have been a perfect empire callback.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet JJ Abrams is really pissed off. His whole thing is leaving questions dangling and never resolving anything, and now half of the thing he wanted to play with in Ep 9 are resolved. Nobody cares who Snoke is or where he came from, because he's dead. And Rey's parents were nobodies (unless Kylo was lying, obviously).

Don't think they'll be selling many more Kylo masks now though. But I bet Phasma does another miracle comeback for ep 9.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved this movie.  THIS is what I wanted out of Star Wars when they decided to let new filmmakers play in Lucas's sandbox.  Don't just feed me the same shit in slightly different form.  Let someone with a fresh perspective come in,  tell a story in their unique voice, and maybe even subvert or change our expectations of what a SW movie is.

And, you know, if that takes us down a planet's hairy butthole for a trippy mirror sequence of indeterminate purpose or on a wild goose chase through a lost sequence from the Prequel Trilogy, so be it, because the sum is infinitely greater than it's parts.

I'm just generally a great fan of any genre story where they find a more clever and substantive way to resolve the plot beyond the hero proving he's the fastest gun in the west, or his kung fu is the best, or he can punch the bad guy into the sun, or win a laser sword duel.  The characters reveal so much more of themselves when it's more than a matter of who can be the most effectively violent.  I love that Johnson turned his nose up at the easy catharis of Luke showing up and mopping the floor with the First Order in favor of a more passive show of power that ultimately proved to be just as great a sacrifice as any glorious death on the battle field.

If TFA was a fairly rote retelling of the hero's journey, then TLJ is about redefining what it means to be a hero in the SW universe.  "We don't win by killing what we hate, but by protecting what we love" is a powerful thesis statement for this series going forward, and I hope JJ Abrams abides by that line of thinking when he takes up the reins for Ep. IX.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-12-15 at 3:06 PM, DeathyBoy said:

God damn.

Star Wars again laughing at how poor MCU and DCEU are in comparison. That shot of Luke walking out of the rebel base was breathtaking.

Just a great film all round. 

The humour felt very Marvel and they are under the same umbrella so.....

I liked the movie but what a waste Snoke turned out to be. And your big idea for one of your new heroes was terrible looking CG intergalactic casino horse racing? Seriously, I almost fell asleep during Finn’s scenes. How was I supposed to care/ not be annoyed when they kept splicing his shit in between Luke and Rey?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Snoke was powerful enough to link Rey and Kylo together, as well as the other force grabs/lightning they briefly showed us, there's no reason why he couldn't also have been an astral projection the whole time. So Ren only thinks he's killed Snoke. Also not buying the Rey's parents are nobodies element. Snoke kept emphasising Skywalker when talking to her a lot. 

Also coolest scene of the movie was Leia re-animating from dead space and force floating herself back inside the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was fantastic.  The handicap tag team match was some epic shit.  Yes,  a little long but damn there were so many awesome moments.  I don't think this was like any Star Wars I've ever seen. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to see how mixed the reaction is. 

The pro-TFA, anti-TLJ crowd clearly wanted remakes instead of sequels.

TFA was a fine introduction to the new characters, but man they just copy and pasted so much from the orginals. This film took some risks and actually passed the torch to these new characters. 

Is it really just that people didn't like how they handled Luke? 

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand if people aren't thrilled with the Luke characterization, but I think what people need to realize is that his story in TLJ is Johnson trying to make chicken salad out of the chicken shit Luke that Abrams dreamed up in TFA.  HE'S the one who decided Luke would turn coward and flee to the far reaches of the galaxy while the Republic went to shit.  JJ dropped that turd in Johnson's lap and left it up to him to explain that bullshit and resolve it in a dramatically satisfying way.

And that's the key thing:  Once you've made an extreme character decision like that, you can't just hand-wave it away and have Luke be like, "A'ight, let's roll" in the beginning of this movie.  Whatever could possibly have caused the Luke at the end of ROTJ to abandon the galaxy HAD to be something so dark and traumatic that he couldn't just get over it in Act 1.   It has to be a process.  The movie has to EARN the glimpse of the old (young?) Luke Skywalker at the end.  And it does.

So anyone who's not thrilled with Luke's arc in this movie, thank JJ.  But also thank Johnson for turning that character assassination into a really beautiful character arc in the end.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool moment: Dr. Satler rams into that 1st Order ship with a ship named after the guy who rammed his ship into an Imperial ship in Rogue One. The Raddus.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole Canto Bight sequence was pointless.  

I did like the reveal for Rey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there any info (books or comics) that explain Snoke's guards? In the next movie will we see Kylo's classmates? Luke did say that he took some of the students with him when he left, right? I initially thought the guards were the Knights of Ren but they didn't seem to be force sensitive, more highly skilled fighters like Donnie Yen's Rogue One character.

Also, the beginning, with Paige's death (Veronica Ngo who was also in the Crouching Tiger Netflix sequel), felt more Rogue One like than the rest of the film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know some people have suggested the guards are the Knights of Ren, but we saw the Knights of Ren in Force Awakens, and they didn't look like that.  Also, if the Praetorian Guard were Force users, why didn't they use the Force in the battle?  Ren and Rey did.  

In the visual dictionary they are described as elite sentinels and soldiers. Also the First Order favors symmetry, so they come in four pairs. The visual dictionary says their origins are a mystery.  It also says this, "The name itself takes back to the 14th Atrisian Emperor of Phard. Examination of Praetorian fighting style reveals a hybrid of Teras Kasi, Bakuuni Hand, Echani unarmed forms, and even Nor Kanji "Blind Alley" techniques."

Yes the visual dictionary actually referenced this:

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big difference between critics rating and audience score for Star Wars: The Last Jedi on Rotten Tomatoes, 94% Fresh rating with 57% Audience Score.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2017 at 1:24 AM, Ace said:

Nobody said "I've got a bad feeling about this". did they?

 

People are speculating that it was BB-8 in the beginning when Poe said, "Positive beeps only" or something like that.

EDIT: Apparently, Rian Johnson confirmed that was it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Natural said:

Big difference between critics rating and audience score for Star Wars: The Last Jedi on Rotten Tomatoes, 94% Fresh rating with 57% Audience Score.

Because it is highly derivative (in terms of design, narrative, musical scoring) to such an extent that the lead new characters are mere shades of the originals, while at the same time betraying the source material, which comes across as more of a burden to the director than a trove to delve into. It works at the level of a whimiscal comic book movie: it does not evoke the intrigue or mystery of the original story. They've kept the facade of star wars (space ships fly around to the original music score), but the spirit isn't there. What a pity.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't worry too much about that RT audience score.  At this point, I think it's clearly being spammed by obsessives who are mad that a CGI cartoon character didn't have his background sufficiently explored and other pedantic shit.

Which makes me wonder:  Do you think audiences in 1983 were mad because the Emperor got killed off without explaining who he was or where he came from?  He didn't even have a name in those movies!  He was just the generic evil space wizard that ruled the Empire.  And sometimes that's okay!

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, EVA said:

So anyone who's not thrilled with Luke's arc in this movie, thank JJ.  But also thank Johnson for turning that character assassination into a really beautiful character arc in the end.

Rather odd way of looking at it. The film begins from the premise that Luke has hidden himself on an island, but went to great lengths to leave a map to his location, to be found at the right moment. There were any number of ways the story could have been guided from there. Of all the directions available, the way they chose: he was growing corpulent on green cow milk. The map element was completely disregarded; the narrative choice that he would consider murdering in cold blood his child nephew is at complete odds with his characterisation in previous material. Even his end is -- to a large extent -- a cop out, and just another example of the constant bait-and-switch that blighted the film. Its just very, very mediocre story-telling, and a poor way of getting him out of the way for the new characters to come to the fore. A reverison to critiscing people who did not like the film as being "mad that a CGI cartoon character didn't have his background sufficiently explored and other pedantic shit" reflects more on you than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Luke never, ever would have doubted himself again? What you're saying is that people and characters never change and who they were more than 30 years ago is who they should always be?

Luke, the person so full of doubt never doubting himself again or never doing something dumb again is laughable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, A_K said:

Rather odd way of looking at it. The film begins from the premise that Luke has hidden himself on an island, but went to great lengths to leave a map to his location, to be found at the right moment. There were any number of ways the story could have been guided from there. Of all the directions available, the way they chose: he was growing corpulent on green cow milk. The map element was completely disregarded; the narrative choice that he would consider murdering in cold blood his child nephew is at complete odds with his characterisation in previous material. Even his end is -- to a large extent -- a cop out, and just another example of the constant bait-and-switch that blighted the film. Its just very, very mediocre story-telling, and a poor way of getting him out of the way for the new characters to come to the fore. A reverison to critiscing people who did not like the film as being "mad that a CGI cartoon character didn't have his background sufficiently explored and other pedantic shit" reflects more on you than others.

I think you're misremembering TFA.  At no point in that movie is it suggested that Luke left the map behind or that he wants to be found.  The map they're after is to the legendary first Jedi temple, which is where most people *think* he was going when he went ghost on the galaxy.  It's a Hail Mary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh I don’t think it’s at all clear what the origin of the map is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, King Leonidas Of Sparta said:

Also coolest scene of the movie was Leia re-animating from dead space and force floating herself back inside the ship.

This is exactly what I meant about "That Leia scene". I was ready to accept her death along with Ackbar's in the explosion. Her suddenly moving and then doing the awesomest bit of Force-work in 9 movies when we've NEVER seen her use the Force got my to jump out of my seat (Luckily, I was in the back row). Holdo weaponizing hyperspace was also awesome.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, A_K said:

the narrative choice that he would consider murdering in cold blood his child nephew is at complete odds with his characterisation in previous material. Even his end is -- to a large extent -- a cop out, and just another example of the constant bait-and-switch that blighted the film. Its just very, very mediocre story-telling, and a poor way of getting him out of the way for the new characters to come to the fore. A reverison to critiscing people who did not like the film as being "mad that a CGI cartoon character didn't have his background sufficiently explored and other pedantic shit" reflects more on you than others.

What's at odds with Luke's portrayal in previous material is that he would run away to the ends of the galaxy and leave millions to die at the hands of his old students and the First Order.  That was JJ Abrams' choice.  But once that bridge has been crossed in TFA, it was up to Johnson to deal with it honestly.  And to do so meant going to a very dark place, because after the events of the OT, no mere defeat or disappointment would compel THAT Luke Skywalker to wash his hands of the fate of the galaxy.  It had to be a deep, personal failing, the kind that make you question if you're even the person you thought you were.  Luke went to Ahch To to hide from himself.

And that's what makes his sacrifice at the end so powerful.  Because it's not about him returning to the fray and conquering his demons.  That's not possible.  All the dead storm troopers and wrecked star destroyers in the galaxy can't atone for that moment of weakness and all that came as a result.  Raising his lightsaber (for real) against Kylo Ren, who exists in part because Luke raised his lightsaber against Ben Solo to begin with, would just be continuing a cycle of violence that he, himself, set in motion and a kind of evil in it's own right.  It was not in his power to set this situation right through his own aggressive action.

Instead, we see him summon literally every last ounce of strength he has left in a display of awesome power and, ultimately, passivity.  He simply allows Kylo Ren's character to be his own undoing and gives Rey and what remains of the Resistsance the chance to live to fight another day, with hope that they will be better than him.

It was beautiful and Jedi as fuck.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...