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Sexual Assault and Harassment in Hollywood

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14 hours ago, Mickie Zeidler said:

Did you get this from the laminated card you keep in your wallet detailing the ages of consent in various states/countries?

Google. Ever heard of it? 

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12 minutes ago, kenyabaxterZXW said:

 

New thread title: Sexual Assault, Harassment, and Confirmed Strange, Awkward Sexual Escapades in Hollywood

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Oh, ok, so it happened and was consensual and the other party felt uncomfortable afterwards. How is this Aziz's fault?

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He performed badly and miscommunicated his kinks? I don't know. I'm not going to bother deciphering this.

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Just now, Craig H said:

Oh, ok, so it happened and was consensual and the other party felt uncomfortable afterwards. How is this Aziz's fault?

Because consent is suppose to be simple and easy to understand, silly!

Well, at least according to random people on Twitter who are suppose to armchair quarterback the world to a new age of enlightenment.

 

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What Eva said a page back is correct. In another time this would be chalked up to experience and sometimes you do things you're not proud of or feel bad about the next day. I've been there. Plenty of people on this board have been there. Millions of people everywhere have been there.

If this is where this "movement" is now going, then man, that movement is fucking dead.

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8 hours ago, Craig H said:

What Eva said a page back is correct. In another time this would be chalked up to experience and sometimes you do things you're not proud of or feel bad about the next day. I've been there. Plenty of people on this board have been there. Millions of people everywhere have been there.

If this is where this "movement" is now going, then man, that movement is fucking dead.

I'm pretty sure this is a case of her not wanting to do anything with Aziz, as noted by her saying or doing things like

  • "hey let's just stop for a second and just chill"
  • moving away from him and going across the room (but he follows)
  • pulling her hand away from his dick several times after he places it there repeatedly
  • going to the bathroom to distance herself from him
  • trying to stop everything by saying they'll do it "next time"
  • not responding to physical contact like kissing

If all of that happened to me, I'd probably take a minute and think, "Well, gee golly, it seems like she's not into this, maybe I should stop trying to get my dick wet!". Neither party handled that like they should have. Aziz should have noticed the warning signs and stopped. She should have made it more clear she wasn't interested in anything sexual. Is this as serious as Bill Cosby drugging women, or Harvey Weinstein using coercion to rape women, or Kevin Spacey making sexual advances on minors? Well, fuck no, obviously not. But it's a situation that could easily evolved into a more serious issue.

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No, it couldn't have, because he was obviously not trying to rape her or assault her in any way.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

Neither party handled that like they should have. Aziz should have noticed the warning signs and stopped. She should have made it more clear she wasn't interested in anything sexual. Is this as serious as Bill Cosby drugging women, or Harvey Weinstein using coercion to rape women, or Kevin Spacey making sexual advances on minors? Well, fuck no, obviously not. But it's a situation that could easily evolved into a more serious issue.

In a way I think it's more important that guys talk about this than about Weinstein, Cosby, Spacey, Lauer, etc. because this situation is more applicable to the average guy's life.  It's more of a teachable moment.

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Repeatedly pestering someone in unwanted sex *is* coercion into rape, jackasses.

No means no.

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8 minutes ago, Casey said:

 

If we become Mormons, this will solve everything. Please take this pamphlet. 

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2 hours ago, EVA said:

No, it couldn't have, because he was obviously not trying to rape her or assault her in any way.

Legally, you are right.  I don't know if you are right outside of that though.  He can't be arrested for what he did, but that doesn't mean what he did was all fine and dandy.  That woman clearly didn't want to have sex with him, but he kept pushing until she eventually relented.  That isn't how this should work.  If you have to push that hard for a woman to have sex with you, you should probably go find someone else.  She wasn't into it, showed that she wasn't into it multiple times, and he just kept pushing until she reluctantly agreed.  In my experience, you don't really have to push a woman who wants to have sex with you to have sex with you.  Seriously, as an adult, have any of you had to push that hard with a woman who wanted to have sex with you?  Following a woman into the bathroom is crazy.  Repeatedly putting her hand on your dick, after she removes it the first time is crazy.  If a woman isn't kissing you back, why do you think she wants to have sex with you?

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33 minutes ago, Mickie Zeidler said:

Repeatedly pestering someone in unwanted sex *is* coercion into rape, jackasses.

No means no.

Repeatedly pestering somebody for money until they give it to you isn't theft, it's just being an asshole.

Similarly, repeatedly pestering somebody for sex isn't good or healthy behaviour, but I have difficulty seeing it as rape.

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Just now, tbarrie said:

Repeatedly pestering somebody for money until they give it to you isn't theft, it's just being an asshole.

Similarly, repeatedly pestering somebody for sex isn't good or healthy behaviour, but I have difficulty seeing it as rape.

Bingo.  Equating pestering someone for sex with rape is just the most 2018 bullshit.

Something can be bad without needing to equate it with some truly evil shit.  But today, everybody's impulse seems to be to reach straight for the top shelf, to carry everything to the extreme.  You only have so many characters to make your point after all.

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5 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Legally, you are right.  I don't know if you are right outside of that though.  He can't be arrested for what he did, but that doesn't mean what he did was all fine and dandy.  

I think if you read the rest of my posts on the subject, you'll find that I in no way found this to be fine and dandy.  From my very first comment, I made clear that I thought this was a bad thing that happened because, first and foremost, he behaved badly.  My only position has been that something can be a bad sexual encounter without also being an assault, or even having the potential to escalate into an assault.

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I'll put it this way.  I'm glad that some people are saying that story is not ok, because there have been times in my life where I was basically in Aziz's spot and didn't do any of that stuff, but I left thinking Maybe I should have, maybe I'm a loser for not trying hard enough.  As a guy, you don't often get congratulated for not scoring.  So it's weirdly validating.

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13 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

Repeatedly pestering somebody for money until they give it to you isn't theft, it's just being an asshole.

Similarly, repeatedly pestering somebody for sex isn't good or healthy behaviour, but I have difficulty seeing it as rape.

But if you're alone with someone pestering you for money and you ultimately give it to them because your safety is not guaranteed? 

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As someone who suffered two sexual assaults 33 years apart (1983 & 2016), I may be a little more suspect of those who feel like everything in Aziz's story is fine.

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5 minutes ago, (BP) said:

But if you're alone with someone pestering you for money and you ultimately give it to them because your safety is not guaranteed? 

I feel like this is a fair point, but I would point out that, in all that she said (and she said quite a lot), I don't recall her saying that she felt unsafe or threatened or physically intimidated in any way.  Hard to believe she'd leave that out, amongst all the other details she offered up, if that was the case.  So...probably not applicable to this particular case?

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Aziz needs to get unplugged, study some seduction techniques, and learn out how to get beyond that LMR. 

Just normal stuff all men deal with, depending on what you read. 

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27 minutes ago, (BP) said:

But if you're alone with someone pestering you for money and you ultimately give it to them because your safety is not guaranteed? 

Tricky. I could easily see that being considered robbery, even if you didn't make any explicit threats.

And for the record, I'm speaking in generalities for a reason - I have no idea who this Aziz guy is, and therefore haven't bothered to read this particular account.

But my larger point is, we don't have to classify all sexual behaviour into one of two buckets, one labelled "okay" and the other "rape". Plenty of things are neither. And labelling all sleazy and inappropriate behaviour "rape" weakens the term.

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