Extreme Rules IX

[Leonidas]

Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar

Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash I pray to the wrestling God Ricky Steamboat Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash. 

[nofuture]

19 minutes ago, King Leonidas Of Sparta said:

Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar

Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash I pray to the wrestling God Ricky Steamboat Pleasedon'tletitbeasquash. 

I would hope Heyman respects Joe enough not to make it a total squash.

[(BP)]

I'd be surprised if Heyman even knows who's going over until the day of the card, let alone have any booking input. 

[nofuture]

On Jericho's podcast, Reigns talked about Heyman and Brock having a lot of input on how the match went down for Wrestlemania a few years ago.  Also, it was Heyman who came up with the idea of Brock losing quick to Goldberg in their first match.

[Burgundy LaRue]

6 hours ago, Sky Blue Sam said:

The problem I find with Alexa feuds is that the build up always involves her telling the face that they're losers... then cleanly beating them to prove this to be the case. It'd be one thing if it was Charlotte saying this, as she's clearly an incredible athlete, but at the moment Alexa is not particularly good in the ring, so no-one comes out looking good. I mean, Becky is arguably the best main roster worker, and I don't think they ever cracked ***. 

Naomi got the most out of Alexa in-ring.  Because while Becky has a more varied offense, it's dependent on the opponent being able to do carry their own weight.  Which Alexa can't do right now. Naomi also has speed-based offense, but she just needed Alexa to be in the right place and she would take care of the rest.  It also helped that they keep their matches short.

Naomi also would just knock the snot out of Alexa, throw her in a submission, and pick up the victory.  It's no accident that the only person who got to beat up the smart-mouthed Alexa repeatedly is the one who looked good coming out of their feud.

[JonnyLaw]

2 hours ago, Michael Sweetser said:

Enjoyed the open - as usual, Miz is carrying everyone with being the only one on the roster willing to be an actual fucking heel.  Popped for him finally hitting the D-Bry knee and wish it was the finish, but I liked the actual finish as well.

It was disappointing (but I guess not unexpected) that the commentary team completely missed what happened with the knee.  The best we got was Booker saying during a replay something like "I think it was actually a knee..."

[Michael Sweetser]

2 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

It was disappointing (but I guess unexpected) that the commentary team completely missed what happened with the knee.  The best we got was Booker saying during a replay something like "I think it was actually a knee..."

The only people that pay less attention to the matches than the writers are the announcers.

[sabremike]

11 hours ago, The Natural said:

Orton/Bray was way worse with the matches especially at WrestleMania and the promos. Least Alexa Bliss made history and cut that great promo on the post Payback RAW to the RAW Women's division.

And also had a strong contender for worst skit in the history of Raw in addition to killing Bayley deader than a doornail. 

[Raziel]

Boy, there are some really shitty takes from people not ready to admit that Bayley just isn't that good and was largely a product of 15-16 NXT's Smoke and Mirrors.

[Craig H]

Man, nothing makes me want to just give up on Raw completely than seeing Bayley get totally buried in this feud. This was the cherry on top for that shit sundae. I like Alexa, but man, after everything that lead up to this, this was the last nail in that coffin.

I talked to a friend about this, but it's astounding how WWE misses layup after layup. Ever since the Invasion angle, they have consistently fucked up every easy opportunity that gets teed up for them. This was just another and at some point I'll learn my lesson and just give up.

That said, I loved the main event. One thing that really stood out as far as the entrances went was how over as a face Seth was. Man that crowd popped huge for him. Then during the match, Seth and Finn were just owning that crowd as far as faces went. They gave Finn so much that I thought, ok, he's not going to win, but they're going to make him look strong. And then they had him be the guy to take the loss. I didn't like that. It's not a "fuck Roman" thing, but I honestly thought the finish would have been better if Joe dumped Finn out of the ring and then finished Roman instead. Roman would have taken two finishers so he doesn't look weak for losing and it gives Joe more credibility going into this match with Brock to say that he beat Roman and 3 other guys.

[Michael Sweetser]

The finish doesn't bother me - a choke is a choke and Finn never saw it coming.  Joe picked the right opportunity and made it happen.  Reigns also just lost clean last month to Strowman so I can definitely see them not wanting to lay another PPV loss on him this quickly.

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Raziel403 said:

Boy, there are some really shitty takes from people not ready to admit that Bayley just isn't that good and was largely a product of 15-16 NXT's Smoke and Mirrors.

Just because you say that doesn't make it true. Also, is it her fault that she's basically been squashed in this whole feud and just booked incredibly poorly in general since winning the title? WWE creative giving her just a ton of dogshit to work with doesn't mean she isn't good. It means that she's buried in dogshit.

[JonnyLaw]

I'm not defending what they've done with Bayley, but I don't think they're done with Bliss-Bayley.  If they are, then I think Bayley's next feud will spring from her refusal to use the kendo stick.

[JonnyLaw]

As an aside, am I the only one who thinks Bayley looks vaguely like Scary Sheri whenever she goes with the purple cat's eye makeup?

[Dewar]

Bayley really should have given the belt back after she found out Sasha cheated to help her win. If she's the role model everyone portrays her to be, she would not have accepted a championship that way, just like The Patriot did in Global. Then she wins again, cleanly, and it gets over the fact that she is someone who does things the right way.

I am assuming this "Bayley hesitated to use the cane" stuff is leading somewhere. I don't hate it as much as everyone here does, or as much as some moron on my Facebook, who was very unhappy and way too willing to spread slut-shaming rumors about Alexa Bliss as the reason she is getting a push.

[Michael Sweetser]

If there's one thing I've learned to stop assuming about WWE, it's that anything is actually leading anywhere unless they specifically bring it up.

[Raziel]

13 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Just because you say that doesn't make it true. Also, is it her fault that she's basically been squashed in this whole feud and just booked incredibly poorly in general since winning the title? WWE creative giving her just a ton of dogshit to work with doesn't mean she isn't good. It means that she's buried in dogshit.

Repeating to yourself that she's a notch below the female Daniel Bryan doesn't make it true either.  If she were some hidden gem superstar, she'd be fine.  If she weren't the board's overrated darling, no one would give a shit.  

 

She's 89 Koko.  She got past her ceiling and got a run because of Florida and the UK's singing.  She's not moving the needle, she's not getting the reactions, she's wonderfully medoicre at everything (that promo last night was cringe worthy), her best matches were with superior workers, and she's where she is.  

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I gave up on the RAW's women's division a long time ago

I gave up on RAW pretty much since the shakeup

Best decision I have made in awhile was not watching a second of this show

An awesome Sheepherders/Fantastics bloodbath went up on Sunday also a surprisingly good Fantastics vs Eddie Gilbert/Sting match (they have two others that are really good and all different). Just saying.

[Craig H]

Who is talking about Daniel Bryan? There's a clear formula for how to book her and they, as usual, threw that all out of the window. Your points regarding being away from Florida and singing is irrelevant because when she was brought up she was ridiculously hot. When Sasha was teasing her tag partner people kept chanting Bayley. They knew who it would be and wanted it to be her. Then when you get to that PPV and she comes out, the roof came off.

As for not moving the needle, I mean, who is? That's just as irrelevant of a point. The last person to really "move the needle" in any sort of meaningful way was Batista, and Goldberg to a lesser extent, but each had diminishing returns.

Again, it's the difference between NXT and the main roster. I had no problems with her promos in the later half of her NXT run. She came off as real and genuine. Nothing sounded scripted and if it was scripted, it sounded like something she had input on. Her promos on Raw reek of the crack writing staff giving her just brutal material to recite and I doubt she's brave enough to go off script and do her own thing. 

Lastly, when you say "she's where she is," that's below damn near every other woman on the roster. So the person who should be the top babyface of that division is really supposed to lurk at the bottom of the heap? 

[Craig H]

12 minutes ago, Dewar said:

Bayley really should have given the belt back after she found out Sasha cheated to help her win. If she's the role model everyone portrays her to be, she would not have accepted a championship that way, just like The Patriot did in Global. Then she wins again, cleanly, and it gets over the fact that she is someone who does things the right way.

I am assuming this "Bayley hesitated to use the cane" stuff is leading somewhere. I don't hate it as much as everyone here does, or as much as some moron on my Facebook, who was very unhappy and way too willing to spread slut-shaming rumors about Alexa Bliss as the reason she is getting a push.

That was the biggest WTF moment I had with her direction at that point and when it became clear that creative had no idea how to use Bayley. Even worse was her response to not giving it back. Like, it's proven that Sasha helped you win. You won the title when you shouldn't have and the best babyface move to do would be to give the title back and say that you can win it without Sasha's help. Charlotte gets her win back by Dusty Finish then and the next match between the two has Sasha interfere again to muck everything up. The short of it is that everything should have lead to Bayley winning the title at WM. You could even still do the 4 way match and that same finish, but the direction they went in to get there was about the dumbest thing you could do and that killed her momentum harder than anything else at that point.

 

[Overly Critical Man]

I'm just waiting for someone to blame Bayley's main roster woes on the Russians hacking the booking.

Alexa derangement syndrome is setting in.

[Raziel]

14 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Who is talking about Daniel Bryan? There's a clear formula for how to book her and they, as usual, threw that all out of the window. Your points regarding being away from Florida and singing is irrelevant because when she was brought up she was ridiculously hot. When Sasha was teasing her tag partner people kept chanting Bayley. They knew who it would be and wanted it to be her. Then when you get to that PPV and she comes out, the roof came off.

As for not moving the needle, I mean, who is? That's just as irrelevant of a point. The last person to really "move the needle" in any sort of meaningful way was Batista, and Goldberg to a lesser extent, but each had diminishing returns.

Again, it's the difference between NXT and the main roster. I had no problems with her promos in the later half of her NXT run. She came off as real and genuine. Nothing sounded scripted and if it was scripted, it sounded like something she had input on. Her promos on Raw reek of the crack writing staff giving her just brutal material to recite and I doubt she's brave enough to go off script and do her own thing. 

Lastly, when you say "she's where she is," that's below damn near every other woman on the roster. So the person who should be the top babyface of that division is really supposed to lurk at the bottom of the heap? 

The difference between her in Florida and Main Roster is relevant, as the difference is night and day.  If she's as good as people around here think, she can overcome the shitty booking, and have had a match above decent with someone other than Charlotte.  She hasn't.  There are a bunch of people on the roster overcoming shitty booking regularly.  She's the scrappy underdog, she's supposed to lose a ton.  Her underdog to the title story was right in NXT.  It's how it should've happened up top, but she was catapaulted to the belt.  Her character doesn't work with the belt, she works with the chase, and losing a ton.

 

She shouldn't be at the top face of that division.  That's not her character.  

[Phantom Lord]

I am convinced someone in that company is sabotaging Bayley. Maybe they just don't get why she's so popular with the fans or they just just don't like her period. I mean we know how screwy of a business wrestling is. But last night was nothing short of making her look pathetic. It went way past the WWE's idiotic booking mantra of "make them look stupid/overcome odds so much that the fans will have to finally love them" even if the fans all ready do. Obviously Alexa had to win, but at the same time making Bayley look that weak and dumb just killed. Even the "good girl" snaps and beats the shit out of the mean girl once in her life.

Plus was last night the first time the WWE did Dusty finishes during actual matches? Alexa got to use the cane despite not being legally allowed to. Jeff Hardy escaping the cage is voided and he has to escape again. That ruined an otherwise really good cage match.

Neville/Aries was good despite it dragging and the wrong guy winning. 205 being under RAW's booking umbrella is so horrible. If they were on Smackdown things would probably be a lot better..much like like the Smackdown Women's division.

The five way was a pretty good match. Towards the end when Roman started spearing everyone I was like "here we go" but I was so pleasantly surprised when Joe won. It's too bad this isn't the Summerslam match, but we'll take it. I wonder if Joe would be all "unlike some other Samoan's you've faced in the past, this one's gonna knock you out". What, Im sure Mark Hunt won't care.

[RIPPA]

9 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

She shouldn't be at the top face of that division.  That's not her character.  

Just for point of order

In your belief, as the roster is currently constructed - who should be the top face of that division?

[Raziel]

6 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Just for point of order

In your belief, as the roster is currently constructed - who should be the top face of that division?

No one, as the roster is currently constructed.  Just because she would be the top face by default, doesn't mean that her character *should* be.  That is on them for not having a better face on deck.  

 

That's a shitty gotcha.