Extreme Rules IX

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I'm interested to see what the tweet by Aries means. Anything to get him away from the floundering cruiserweight division would be a plus. The guy is just too good to let go to waste, although that never stopped this company before.

[JCM]

15 minutes ago, OSJ said:

You're partly correct, going back to NXT in and of itself will not help Bayley. Writers who understand the character and can book her well will make the difference. Sadly, she ain't getting that on the big stage, she is easily the most star-powered female wrestler since Wendi Richter. I'm not saying that she's the best, because she isn't. but she IS damn good and connects big-time with all sectors of the audience. By that token alone, she's worth a million Alexa Blisses.

I know lapsed/casual fans, and I can assure you Bayley isn't worth one Alexa Bliss to most of the main roster audience. I don't get how Bayley is star powered. Sasha has got more over and came off like a bigger star. Charlotte comes off as a way bigger star. Becky is a better wrestler and talker and more over. NXT caught lightning in a bottle with Bayley's run. We all knew this was likely to happen on the MR. It's a different fan base. American Alpha are non over jobbers on SDL. The fans turned on a good Neville/Aries match. We're not in Full Sail anymore Toto.

[nofuture]

Bayley will be fine.  She still sells a lot of merch and it's not like the Woman's division is deep at all.  She'll have her chance again.  If she can't survive bad booking, she didn't have a chance to begin with.

[OSJ]

11 minutes ago, JCM said:

I know lapsed/casual fans, and I can assure you Bayley isn't worth one Alexa Bliss to most of the main roster audience. I don't get how Bayley is star powered. Sasha has got more over and came off like a bigger star. Charlotte comes off as a way bigger star. Becky is a better wrestler and talker and more over. NXT caught lightning in a bottle with Bayley's run. We all knew this was likely to happen on the MR. It's a different fan base. American Alpha are non over jobbers on SDL. The fans turned on a good Neville/Aries match. We're not in Full Sail anymore Toto.

If you don't get how Bayley is star powered, I'm not sure that I can make you understand the concept with a message board post... I've watched wrestling since the mid-1960s, and I like to think that I have developed a pretty good handle on how one connects with an audience. We're not talking about Adam Rose and the Exotic Express, which was tailor-made for Full Sail and foredoomed to failure anywhere else. We are talking about a young lady who has the classic scrappy underdog resume and remembers from whence she came. That shit is endearing as all get out to audiences of all sizes in all countries. However, the booking has to support the narrative and they've done a piss-poor job of it thus far. 

Bayley got squashed by Asuka without losing a bit of luster, it was the scrappy underdog against the consummate killing machine, any other finish would have been laughable. However, Bayley losing a blow-off in five minutes to the likes of Alexa Bliss is a travesty. WWE has a money machine on their hands and they can't figure out how to maximize it because they overthink everything. The lovable underdog that can pull out the big win from time to time is an ageless classic that can be milked for years, unfortunately, you have so-called writers that don't understand basic plotting.

[mattdangerously]

14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm interested to see what the tweet by Aries means. Anything to get him away from the floundering cruiserweight division would be a plus. The guy is just too good to let go to waste, although that never stopped this company before.

Hopefully, he goes back to NXT, where they need more heels.

[JCM]

8 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Bayley got squashed by Asuka without losing a bit of luster, it was the scrappy underdog against the consummate killing machine, any other finish would have been laughable. However, Bayley losing a blow-off in five minutes to the likes of Alexa Bliss is a travesty.

I remember the Bayley/Asuka matches being competitive. Based on the WWE fans I know there's more money and star potential in Bliss. She has cover girl looks, is a good athlete, and the best talker in the women's division. Bayley got over in front of a very small(compared to the MR) audience, and she hasn't clicked with the 85% of the main audience that didn't see her NXT work.

[OSJ]

2 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

Hopefully, he goes back to NXT, where they need more heels.

Just thinking out loud, but how the hell when you have a division that can be so deep in talent as the cruiserweight or juniors, (and let's face it, for every athletic 260 lb guy there's a dozen guys 180 - 200 out there honing their craft.), how can you fuck it up so badly?

[Hail Sabin]

The rules in Neville vs. Aries were dumbfounding but at least it looks like Neville vs. Tozawa is the next feud.

[OSJ]

4 minutes ago, JCM said:

I remember the Bayley/Asuka matches being competitive. Based on the WWE fans I know there's more money and star potential in Bliss. She has cover girl looks, is a good athlete, and the best talker in the women's division. Bayley got over in front of a very small(compared to the MR) audience, and she hasn't clicked with the 85% of that audience that didn't see her NXT work.

It was about as competitive as S.D. Jones vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper... Yeah, Bayley got her stuff in, rattled Asuka a couple of times but there was never any doubt how it was going to wind up.

BTW: Just for the sake of discussion, this constant citing of unnamed former and current fans sounds positively Trumpian as in "I'm hearing..." 

If this is really the consensus of the folks that you know, do try and associate with a better class of people, won't you?

[JCM]

205 division is dead in the water. 190lb Finn Balor had Roman beat with his finish in the main event. Rollins did 55 high spots in the same match. What do we need cruisers for anyway? To fill time on Raw and the Network is basically it.

[OSJ]

1 minute ago, JCM said:

205 division is dead in the water. 190lb Finn Balor had Roman beat with his finish in the main event. Rollins did 55 high spots in the same match. What do we need cruisers for anyway? To fill time on Raw and the Network is basically it.

Jeebus wept.

[TheVileOne]

In this day and age, it makes no sense to have a cruiserweight division in WWE.  This isn't NJPW.  

If you want to do one-off things like CWC or the UK tournament, that makes a lot more sense.

[JCM]

Dunne and Bate might be able to save it, but they're both so good I'd rather they not get tainted with 205 stench.

[username]

I've said this before, but as bad as the booking around Bayley has been on Raw it's not like she's been doing much better herself.  She has been dreadful on the mic and mediocre in the ring.  The booking has been worse, but if this is the best she has to offer on the main roster I'm not sure that good booking would be enough.

[The Natural]

9 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Just thinking out loud, but how the hell when you have a division that can be so deep in talent as the cruiserweight or juniors, (and let's face it, for every athletic 260 lb guy there's a dozen guys 180 - 200 out there honing their craft.), how can you fuck it up so badly?

 

37 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Sadly that also applies to others.

; )

[OSJ]

2 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

In this day and age, it makes no sense to have a cruiserweight division in WWE.  This isn't NJPW.  

If you want to do one-off things like CWC or the UK tournament, that makes a lot more sense.

Hmmm, you may be on to something here. I watch NJPW religiously, WWE I tune into to see Balor, Aries, Neville, and AJ and ignore pretty much everything else.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I'm ready to see the purple ropes go bye bye.  It's not working and nobody in WWE knows how to make it work.  Just put it out of its misery.  Guys like Neville and Aries can get involved with UK/NXT stuff or get slotted into the midcard on RAW or SDL.  The others...  well,  the indies are doing well I'm sure Gulak and Dar and the rest can manage on that scene. 

[OSJ]

I think that the solution is an inter-fed trade, Austin Aries to NJPW for Will Ospreay, then we can all be happy.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Just now, OSJ said:

I think that the solution is an inter-fed trade, Austin Aries to NJPW for Will Ospreay, then we can all be happy.

By "all" you mean just you and everyone who won't be subjected to Will Ospreay. 

[OSJ]

11 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

In this day and age, it makes no sense to have a cruiserweight division in WWE.  This isn't NJPW.  

I disagree with the first sentence and find the second sad, but all too true.

[sydneybrown]

I think the problem with Bayley is that you can't continue to be a plucky underdog while also having already won the championship and successfully defended it at WrestleMania.  What there is to do she kinda did in in about nine months.  It's like when Gail Kim flamed out after winning the title in her first match.  She should have been given the Daniel Bryan treatment from the start where she constantly loses and the fans start shitting on the company for how they don't know what they are doing and THEN she starts winning on her way to the title.  But this is totally ass backwards.  She already got the star treatment and now she looks like a flash in the pan.

[HumanChessgame]

Consolidate the UK division and CW divisions into NXT (where plenty of them already have matches anyways), put a few of the top performers from each on the main brands, and give NXT two hours on Wednesdays.  Set up some angle where they do a title unification a la the pure and world titles in ROH and you've got a midcard title for NXT.  They've had what, one or two tapings of matches for the UK division?  NXT goes over there a few times a year which is about the same.  All these different pseudo-brands are just creating oversaturation and not letting any of the talented wrestlers gain any traction.

[The Natural]

This is going to happen!

[DreamBroken]

Really good opener with Miz/Ambrose. Great near falls and a lot of time. Maryse awesome as always, loved her doing the Yes! chant along to Miz's kicks. Though the finish was amusing with the ref threatening to DQ Ambrose then sees he got laid out so he decides screw it might as well 3 count him down instead. I love an Alexa Bliss squash match. Cage match was fast paced and pretty fun overall. Figured the Hardyz had to lose after being unbeaten for two months.

Aries/Neville delivered big time for me, awesome match once again from them. They've been the bright spot of the division and made the dreadful beginnings of the division worth it. I was torn going in since I want a long Neville reign but also really wanted to see Aries win and feel he's the only guy that should do it. Loved the finishing stretch here. Did feel disappointed for Aries not eventually getting to win it as there's no one else I'd rather see beat Neville. Main event was good with a lot going on at all times. Shocked by the result as I felt Joe had little to no chance going in but very glad to see it. Joe/Brock should be off the charts.

 

54 minutes ago, JCM said:

I know lapsed/casual fans, and I can assure you Bayley isn't worth one Alexa Bliss to most of the main roster audience. I don't get how Bayley is star powered. Sasha has got more over and came off like a bigger star. Charlotte comes off as a way bigger star. Becky is a better wrestler and talker and more over. NXT caught lightning in a bottle with Bayley's run. We all knew this was likely to happen on the MR. It's a different fan base. American Alpha are non over jobbers on SDL. The fans turned on a good Neville/Aries match. We're not in Full Sail anymore Toto.

 

37 minutes ago, JCM said:

I remember the Bayley/Asuka matches being competitive. Based on the WWE fans I know there's more money and star potential in Bliss. She has cover girl looks, is a good athlete, and the best talker in the women's division. Bayley got over in front of a very small(compared to the MR) audience, and she hasn't clicked with the 85% of the main audience that didn't see her NXT work.

 

27 minutes ago, username said:

I've said this before, but as bad as the booking around Bayley has been on Raw it's not like she's been doing much better herself.  She has been dreadful on the mic and mediocre in the ring.  The booking has been worse, but if this is the best she has to offer on the main roster I'm not sure that good booking would be enough.

Agreed 100% with these three posts. The "starpower" of Bayley has always been over inflated to a ridiculous degree before even coming up to the main roster. Outside of those Sasha matches, I have never seen anything there. Sasha definitely screamed star way more though she's fallen far from where she once was as far as that goes. Bliss all day any day.

[Burgundy LaRue]

You don't have to be a Bayley fan to realize how badly she's been booked into the ground and how that shouldn't have happened.  Yeah, she's gotta work on promos.  But they made her look like an absolute doofus for this entire feud. Where is she supposed to go after this?  Not to mention that the RAW women's division doesn't have one over babyface now. (Sasha is leaning into tweener territory and will be heel soon)