DECEMBER WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[nate]

Who are our champions within the linear spectrum, these days?

[ebbie]

Amazingly the little kids, with or without cancer, are substantially more important to WWE than the posters on DVDVR and those who think Flair should keep his world title record.

 

Well, financially, why the fuck wouldn't you market to kids? 

 

- One adult ticket, and maybe a t-shirt, and a beer or something to eat

 

- A kid ticket (and fucking hell if you have more than one..), a t-shirt or toy or both (and fucking hell if you have more than one kid...), plus the adult ticket, and a beer if you got money left over after spending it all on your kid(s)

 

 

It's common sense. Pro wrestling isn't about honour and shit; it's about how much money a bunch of carnies can make.

[cool arrow]

Or lose, in the case of TNA.

[JohnnyJ]

Amazingly the little kids, with or without cancer, are substantially more important to WWE than the posters on DVDVR and those who think Flair should keep his world title record.

Well, financially, why the fuck wouldn't you market to kids?

- One adult ticket, and maybe a t-shirt, and a beer or something to eat

- A kid ticket (and fucking hell if you have more than one..), a t-shirt or toy or both (and fucking hell if you have more than one kid...), plus the adult ticket, and a beer if you got money left over after spending it all on your kid(s)

It's common sense. Pro wrestling isn't about honour and shit; it's about how much money a bunch of carnies can make.

Because kids don't have any income. An 8 year old may be able to nag their parents to take them to an event. But they've shown to be inept at convincing their parents to sign up for a certain monthly subscription service the entire future of the company is riding on.

[Patrick B.]

I'm not disputing that it's good business.

 

I know what I want to see at a wrestling show and I make my ticket-buying decisions accordingly, not based on what other people like.  Sometimes that means I skip a WWE show and sometimes that means I drive a half-hour to a podunk indy show with double-digit attendance and no one on the card that you've ever heard of (or ever will hear of).

[ebbie]

 

 

Amazingly the little kids, with or without cancer, are substantially more important to WWE than the posters on DVDVR and those who think Flair should keep his world title record.

Well, financially, why the fuck wouldn't you market to kids?

- One adult ticket, and maybe a t-shirt, and a beer or something to eat

- A kid ticket (and fucking hell if you have more than one..), a t-shirt or toy or both (and fucking hell if you have more than one kid...), plus the adult ticket, and a beer if you got money left over after spending it all on your kid(s)

It's common sense. Pro wrestling isn't about honour and shit; it's about how much money a bunch of carnies can make.

Because kids don't have any income. An 8 year old may be able to nag their parents to take them to an event. But they've shown to be inept at convincing their parents to sign up for a certain monthly subscription service the entire future of the company is riding on.

 

 

 

So, you're telling me if you were a kid right now, the WWE network would appeal to you? Most of the stuff is from eons ago in a little kid's mind and if the kid has a tablet, who cares when you got Netflix?

[Hollywood Cibernetico]

WWE pays for its workers sugeries/rehabs, etc. Does this include breast surgery?

[The Nature Boy]

Simple: WWE needs to market to more than just fucking 8 year olds. The WWE Network relies on people in the 20 and up demographic subscribing and caring about the product. 

[Patrick B.]

WWE pays for its workers sugeries/rehabs, etc. Does this include breast surgery?

 

Does your question pertain to the subject of your avatar?

[Cristobal]

I think people at Stanford would be smart enough to see the problems, but are probably worried about more important things.

I lived close enough to Palo Alto that I know that's not guaranteed. You don't have to be smart to be rich, and you certainly don't have to be smart to be a rich kid.

[Buy Me a Burrito]

Remember that long haired kid who posted the video screaming about CM Punk? That's what this place is like on Tuesdays.

Find something good and remember what makes wrestling fun. For me right now it's that dumb groggy sell that Dick Murdock used to do.

[mco543]

Remember that long haired kid who posted the video screaming about CM Punk? That's what this place is like on Tuesdays.

Find something good and remember what makes wrestling fun. For me right now it's that dumb groggy sell that Dick Murdock used to do.

If you haven't already, check out the Dick Murdock vs Afa match on the Network, it's from the 10/22/84 MSG Old School show.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

For me it's Drew Haskins - cheating bastard TV champ.

[Patrick B.]

Fun hoss-tacular match between Jake Dirden and Ruff Crossing on here:

[Web Conn]

I really like indy wrestling so I'll always have that as long as Beyond Wrestling and Evolve/ Dragon Gate and other promotions still pump out kick ass cutting edge shit.

[goc]

 

Remember that long haired kid who posted the video screaming about CM Punk? That's what this place is like on Tuesdays.

Find something good and remember what makes wrestling fun. For me right now it's that dumb groggy sell that Dick Murdock used to do.

If you haven't already, check out the Dick Murdock vs Afa match on the Network, it's from the 10/22/84 MSG Old School show.

 

Love that match. Fuck Dave Meltzer saying Dick was lazy. I'd rather watch a match like Murdoch vs. Afa than a 30 minute epic with a 10 minute end run of kicking out of finishers.

[Patrick B.]

So much good stuff in my area's indy scene.  For ROH-style fast-paced bang-bang stuff, there's St. Louis Anarchy and High Risk Wrestling.  For a more old-school product, there's SICW(with Larry Matysik as one of the minds behind the promotion).  There's Dynamo Pro Wrestling, MMWA, and a couple of other newer groups(PWCS, PWE)...practically every weekend, a person can go to an indy show within an hour's drive.

 

By my count, I've been to 56 indy shows this year and next Sunday's HRW show will make it 57.

[Cole Miner]

Love that match. Fuck Dave Meltzer saying Dick was lazy. I'd rather watch a match like Murdoch vs. Afa than a 30 minute epic with a 10 minute end run of kicking out of finishers.

 

When did he say that? He was talking about him the other day glowingly.

[mco543]

I'm jealous as hell of you guys who live where there's tons of indies running every weekend. I'd have to drive up to the Orlando/Tampa area to see indy wrestling and it's just too far. I don't think there are any good or notable promotions who regularly run the Fort Lauderdale area.

[Patrick B.]

Was lucky enough to discover the indy scene around my area in 2000, right around the time Matt Sydal/Delirious/MsChif/Daizee Haze were getting started.  Have met some really cool people in that time...have had some really interesting conversations with Larry Matysik and Gary Jackson in recent years.  (Gary was a prelim guy in the WWF and WCW for a while and he's still kicking around the STL-area indy shows...I swear the guy doesn't age.)

[odessasteps]

Love that match. Fuck Dave Meltzer saying Dick was lazy. I'd rather watch a match like Murdoch vs. Afa than a 30 minute epic with a 10 minute end run of kicking out of finishers.

When did he say that? He was talking about him the other day glowingly.

The rap against Murdoch was that he often took nights off and half-assed it in the ring.

[NintendoLogic]

 

 

Pro Wrestling is more analogous to an episodic, scripted television show than the Harlem Globetrotters. I honestly think that kayfabe is the biggest enemy of pro wrestling. You don't see pro wrestlers openly discussing the business on mainstream media outlets. Whenever Jim Parsons appears on late night TV, he's on there as "Jim Parsons" and not as "Sheldon Cooper." He also talks about his current projects, maybe drops some behind the scenes info. You never see a pro wrestler on mainstream TV saying "it was really fun to work with wrestler x, we should have a good performance on Sunday....etc." 

 

I disagree but kayfabe in the modern media era does inhibit publicity for pro wrestling. I do think that even if all pretense of out of the ring kayfabe was halted, business would not increase at all. It might as well be live "Power Rangers" then. Kayfabe is the beauty of the whole thing. Without it, it is just "fake fighting". Kayfabe is what I miss most about rasslin'.

- RAF

 

 

See, I don't know. I feel like most people think that wrestling fans actually think that wrestling is real. Kayfabe just kind of furthers that. I don't think that business would increase if you had John Cena appearing on (say) Jimmy Fallon breaking kayfabe on the same level that Bradley Cooper would if he were discussing a movie, but it might lessen the public stigma a bit. 

 

As nice as kayfabe was, we're also in an era where everyone wants every last detail about their favorite TV show and its stars.  

 

 

The sad thing is, I've actually met people-grown adults, mind you-who believed that most matches may be fake, but some are real. Or that wrestling used to be real (as in, back in the 70s, not the Gotch/Hackenschmidt era). I can't shake the feeling that people like this make up a larger portion of the fanbase than we'd like to admit.

[bobholly138]

 

 

 

Pro Wrestling is more analogous to an episodic, scripted television show than the Harlem Globetrotters. I honestly think that kayfabe is the biggest enemy of pro wrestling. You don't see pro wrestlers openly discussing the business on mainstream media outlets. Whenever Jim Parsons appears on late night TV, he's on there as "Jim Parsons" and not as "Sheldon Cooper." He also talks about his current projects, maybe drops some behind the scenes info. You never see a pro wrestler on mainstream TV saying "it was really fun to work with wrestler x, we should have a good performance on Sunday....etc." 

 

I disagree but kayfabe in the modern media era does inhibit publicity for pro wrestling. I do think that even if all pretense of out of the ring kayfabe was halted, business would not increase at all. It might as well be live "Power Rangers" then. Kayfabe is the beauty of the whole thing. Without it, it is just "fake fighting". Kayfabe is what I miss most about rasslin'.

- RAF

 

 

See, I don't know. I feel like most people think that wrestling fans actually think that wrestling is real. Kayfabe just kind of furthers that. I don't think that business would increase if you had John Cena appearing on (say) Jimmy Fallon breaking kayfabe on the same level that Bradley Cooper would if he were discussing a movie, but it might lessen the public stigma a bit. 

 

As nice as kayfabe was, we're also in an era where everyone wants every last detail about their favorite TV show and its stars.  

 

 

The sad thing is, I've actually met people-grown adults, mind you-who believed that most matches may be fake, but some are real. Or that wrestling used to be real (as in, back in the 70s, not the Gotch/Hackenschmidt era). I can't shake the feeling that people like this make up a larger portion of the fanbase than we'd like to admit.

 

Few years back at a XOW show I was talking to this man that was in his early 50s. Some of the pearls of wisdom I got from him.

 

1.Wrestling was real until Mid South/UWF folded. 

2.John Cena is the son of Greg Valentine.

3.Andre the Giant was only 6'3". But wore huge lifts in his boots to make him seem much taller.

4.Bam Bam Bigelow's head tats were fake. This guy knew the artist that traveled with Bam Bam painting them on each night before his match.

[RandomAct]

 

 

Love that match. Fuck Dave Meltzer saying Dick was lazy. I'd rather watch a match like Murdoch vs. Afa than a 30 minute epic with a 10 minute end run of kicking out of finishers.

When did he say that? He was talking about him the other day glowingly.

The rap against Murdoch was that he often took nights off and half-assed it in the ring.

 

To that I say, who gives a shit?  He drew more money than anyone does right now, and people gave a shit about his matches.  Smarter, not harder. 

[Web Conn]

I'm from Tacoma, Washington so there isnt much indie wrestling. I say I like the Indies and not love cuz when I lived in Oregon City I never went to DOA in Portland and I attend UNLV now and haven't been to a Future Stars of Wrestling yet but I dont have a car down there. I had one when I was in Oregon so I didn't have an excuse down there other than pure laziness. I went to one Pinnacle Wrestling show in Washington when they were around when I was in high school. I saw Harry Smiths last match before signing to the WWE against TJ Wilson/Tyson Kidd. Thank God for Youtube though.