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DECEMBER WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD


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"Wah wah. DB wasn't booked to beat everyone in 45 fucking minute long repeats of Puro matches from 1984 that only two people in the last 20 years watched the entire through. They buried him! Why can't the WWE learn how to book a 5'9" guy who weights 180 soaking wet holding TWO bricks right?! He should be beating everyone! WAH WAH!"

Nobody actually made this argument, but Ebbie sure did a great job of beating this tired strawman agrument to death!

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"Wah wah. DB wasn't booked to beat everyone in 45 fucking minute long repeats of Puro matches from 1984 that only two people in the last 20 years watched the entire through. They buried him! Why can't the WWE learn how to book a 5'9" guy who weights 180 soaking wet holding TWO bricks right?! He should be beating everyone! WAH WAH!"

I never once said he should be booked in long matches in some internet fan fantasy.  I'm not an idiot.  I know that matches/workrate don't mean shit for business.

 

I'd love to see how Vince would handle owning the UFC.  GSP would have been working opening fights because he was too small.

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I think matches are important but so are the stories and that's where WWE is lacking. There's no creativity. Bryan's chase was a classic underdog story. Fans liked him. He seemed like a nice guy. But I also think it was the in-ring work that helped get him to that point. He was on this ridiculous streak with hot tags against The Shield and back and forths with people like Cesaro.

I'm not even sure what the story behind Rollins and Cena is. I get that Cena might lose his title shot but why should we care about that when it's obvious he'll just get another one a month from now? They need to start sticking to some of these stips. Look at the Bellas thing. Why invest time in this shit when 1. they didn't really play up the personal assistant thing all that much and 2. they are already back together.

They did that same shit with the Nexus and Cena feud. Cena was "fired" for like 18 hours. Fuck.

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I kinda wonder what Vince himself thinks of the "indy superstar" experiment.  Vince has historically had the mindset that he didn't need established indy guys.  He went out, found guys with the look he wanted (read: Mason Ryan), retrained them from scratch to work the WWE style, and ran with them.  Now they're signing established indy names that wouldn't have gotten a first glance 10 years ago, emphasizing ring work, and..... one of their two big success stories got seriously injured before he really got going, and the other quit and went home while he was number two in the company.  Vince is probably wondering if he could make any money off Rob Terry.

 

The thing about Bryan and Punk's rapid physical decline is that they both spent the better part of a decade in the indys taking bookings anywhere they could get them, working a lot of guys who were badly or barely trained, and taking absurd bumps (Punk/Hero IWA-MS matches, I'm looking at you). I assume their health care during this period wasn't the greatest.  They get to the big time, where they should be working a better class of opponents with access to better physical therapy and a minimal number of really crazy bumps.... and they both break down very quickly.  Kinda makes you wonder who can survive that sort of schedule and how they'rer doing it.

 

I assume everyone on the roster goes to the doctor Super Cena saw when Jesus stabbed him.  Dude was recovered from that in barely a week.  He could get Bryan and Edge back on their feet in two days, tops.

 

The fact is- even with the indy superstars declining so rapidly, WWE still has to build around them simply because the fans won't LET them do otherwise. Quite frankly, the IWC has played its card many times- they won't truly accept any new superstar unless they worked Ring of Honor or SHIMMER (maybe they're getting more reasonable now, accepting people like Ambrose, who worked DGUSA, or Luke Harper, who was primarily a CHIKARA guy- but it's still the same form with a different super-indy.) 

 

Even when WWE does it right, the fans are dedicated to that- people like Roman Reigns already are getting slight backlash, even BEFORE they get the big push- and people who do this inherently make it clear they hate him either "because I want to hate Reigns BEFORE it's cool to hate him so I'm even cooler and more of a hipster than the cool IWC hipsters!", or "Because he's not Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins getting the Jesus push of the Shield" (and inherently making the unspoken "because he's not Jon Moxley (NOT! Dean Ambrose!) or Tyler Black (NOT! Seth Rollins!) getting the push."

 

The "indy superstar" experiment isn't working- but quite frankly, WWE has no other choice but to do it.

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The fact is- even with the indy superstars declining so rapidly, WWE still has to build around them simply because the fans won't LET them do otherwise. Quite frankly, the IWC has played its card many times- they won't truly accept any new superstar unless they worked Ring of Honor or SHIMMER (maybe they're getting more reasonable now, accepting people like Ambrose, who worked DGUSA, or Luke Harper, who was primarily a CHIKARA guy- but it's still the same form with a different super-indy.) 

 

Noooooooope.

No matter how many times this talking point is repeated on this board, the IWC does not have any real effect on WWE's booking. The portion of the IWC that watches ROH and cares enough about ROH and its history to reject people WWE is pushing is extraordinarily small.

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I think matches are important but so are the stories and that's where WWE is lacking. There's no creativity. Bryan's chase was a classic underdog story. Fans liked him. He seemed like a nice guy. But I also think it was the in-ring work that helped get him to that point. He was on this ridiculous streak with hot tags against The Shield and back and forths with people like Cesaro.

 

The in-ring work absolutely helped him get to that point, but in my opinion, I think Team Hell No did a lot for him than people realize. No one can say that Team Hell No wasn't one of the most fun things on WWE television in years. I loved everything about DB and Kane together, and even my non-fan roommates thought those Dr. Shelby vignettes were hysterical. It was miles ahead of your typical WWE comedy, and more nuanced than your typical WWE "mismatched tag team" angles and I'm shocked to this day by the chemistry between two guys who are 14 years apart in age, and a million miles apart in work style. I definitely think that team did a lot to raise DB's stock in the eyes of the "WWE only" fan who had never seen him on the indies, or the younger crowd who may not have been old enough to catch that stuff. Plus, it breathed new life into the "YES/NO" thing, which is a huge part of DB's character at this point.

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People seem to forget that DB was going no where as just the dude that wrestles. It wasn't until they buit him up as the sneaky little shit that treated his girlfriend like shit that managed to escape with his title until his girlfriend managed to be his down fail.

But because it was DB and his fans won't accept anything less than super duper wrestler bullshit from him, the story got lost.

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People seem to forget that DB was going no where as just the dude that wrestles. It wasn't until they buit him up as the sneaky little shit that treated his girlfriend like shit that managed to escape with his title until his girlfriend managed to be his down fail.

But because it was DB and his fans won't accept anything less than super duper wrestler bullshit from him, the story got lost.

 

Thank the stars we have you to keep fighting the good fight so that the TRUTH gets out there.

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People seem to forget that DB was going no where as just the dude that wrestles. It wasn't until they buit him up as the sneaky little shit that treated his girlfriend like shit that managed to escape with his title until his girlfriend managed to be his down fail.

But because it was DB and his fans won't accept anything less than super duper wrestler bullshit from him, the story got lost.

 

No one forgets this. Stop making up a narrative in your head that doesn't actually exist. I enjoy it to some degree when you bitch about things that are actually, you know, part of reality. This, on the other hand, is tiresome WAH PEOPLE LIKE DANIEL BRYAN AND I WANT TO RUIN THAT FOR THEM bullshit. 

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People seem to forget that DB was going no where as just the dude that wrestles. It wasn't until they buit him up as the sneaky little shit that treated his girlfriend like shit that managed to escape with his title until his girlfriend managed to be his down fail.

But because it was DB and his fans won't accept anything less than super duper wrestler bullshit from him, the story got lost.

 

No one forgets this. Stop making up a narrative in your head that doesn't actually exist. I enjoy it to some degree when you bitch about things that are actually, you know, part of reality. This, on the other hand, is tiresome WAH PEOPLE LIKE DANIEL BRYAN AND I WANT TO RUIN THAT FOR THEM bullshit. 

 

 

I am just tired of reading the whole DB got buried argument when, next to Cena and Punk, he was given the most shit to do since 2011. It's mind blowing how he got over because his fans wouldn't accept that DB got squashed at WM when that was the fucking point. Then to bitch about being with Kane and other shit that every main event talent has gone through really makes it 'blech.'

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People seem to forget that DB was going no where as just the dude that wrestles. It wasn't until they buit him up as the sneaky little shit that treated his girlfriend like shit that managed to escape with his title until his girlfriend managed to be his down fail.

But because it was DB and his fans won't accept anything less than super duper wrestler bullshit from him, the story got lost.

No one forgets this. Stop making up a narrative in your head that doesn't actually exist. I enjoy it to some degree when you bitch about things that are actually, you know, part of reality. This, on the other hand, is tiresome WAH PEOPLE LIKE DANIEL BRYAN AND I WANT TO RUIN THAT FOR THEM bullshit.

I am just tired of reading the whole DB got buried argument when, next to Cena and Punk, he was given the most shit to do since 2011. It's mind blowing how he got over because his fans wouldn't accept that DB got squashed at WM when that was the fucking point. Then to bitch about being with Kane and other shit that every main event talent has gone through really makes it 'blech.'

I get the argument "everyone wrestles Kane" but the natural feud was with Randy Orton coming out of Wrestlemania. I guess you could say if he wasn't injured he would've beaten Kane, a feud with Orton and mauve another Cena or Wyatt match and held it until Summerslam he would've had the Brock match and the rematch. I'm sure Cena still would've gotten the Rumble match but yeah, Bryan would be in a good spot right now if he wasn't hurt.

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Going back to the point someone made about the Reigns backlash.  I think it has very little to do with the "IWC" rejecting him, because this is something that has happened throughout history.  Fans, "smart" or otherwise can tell when a guy is the someone that the company is telling you to cheer for, and is the new golden boy.  These guys get rejected nearly every time.  Fans don't want to be told who to cheer for.  Fans want to make up their own mind.  That is why Reigns has a backlash.

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Everyone settle the fuck down.

And if you can't figure out what is wrong with the "discussion" the last several pages, then you need to step away from posting for a bit.

Or I will help you along to that point

Is there a meta thread about what we can't talk about for more than 1 page?

Pitbull! Punches! Titties!

Better?

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