The Old School Questions thread

[zendragon]

they needed a warm body? (this goes for his whole career)

[Log]

6 hours ago, zendragon said:

they needed a warm body? (this goes for his whole career)

And then some in 88-89 NWA! I swear like every show from that time has Victory in two matches. One usually under a mask. Even as a kid I thought that was funny. Dude has one of the most distinct body shapes of anyone in wrestling. That mask ain’t fooling anyone. 

[Infinit]

2 hours ago, Log said:

And then some in 88-89 NWA! I swear like every show from that time has Victory in two matches. One usually under a mask. Even as a kid I thought that was funny. Dude has one of the most distinct body shapes of anyone in wrestling. That mask ain’t fooling anyone. 

THE BLACKMAILER.....!

[Eoae]

11 hours ago, twiztor said:

why was Jack Victory employed by ECW? barely talks, never wrestles, not a former star. i don't get it whatsoever.

Besides being a Heyman guy from their days together in WCW, I wonder if Heyman felt responsible for his injury and felt like he had to keep him around.  Victory broke his leg at November to Remember '98 and it supposedly didn't heal right, which is why he rarely wrestled singles matches in ECW after that (mostly seconded Corino and wrestled tag matches where he didn't do much).

Edited June 29, 2021 by Eoae

[J.H.]

It's not like Victory was horrible or anything. He and Jack Tatum had a great team together in Texas. He basically a guy you looked at thought "Man, I wanna boo that guy for no reason" which is what made hima decent heel. He was just kinda vanilla. Like if you teamed with Doug Somers they could be sponsored by Breyer's!

James

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

My favorite Jack Victory moment was when he and John Tatum had a feud over pizza shop profits.

[Shane]

Victory had great punches. I always thought he was fun in the enforcer role for a guy like Tatum. He and Rip Morgan were a team I always wished got more of a chance, too. I'm glad I got to see him live during his ECW days.

[BloodyChamp]

I wouldn’t say he did nothing in ECW. There were matches where all he did was wheel out there and back yes but some of his comedy relief stuff was absolute gold. 1 of my favorite funny moments ever in wrestling was his reintroducing himself to Missy when she came back to ECW at the very end. Paul apparently believed in having guys who did nothing around though. When done right they can really enhance the whole show just by walking the aisle. Jack Victory, Big Sal, Dudleys who rarely wrestled, Corino when he first started etc. 

 

[AxB]

911 got super over by only ever doing one thing. It's only logical that someone else could get over by not doing anything.

[BloodyChamp]

I also always thought that Heyman, and the hardcore ECW fans, kind of got off on having any old wrestler out there who would do what they were told and not complain. It was their equivalent of sticking it to the man kinda. 

[Happ Hazzard]

When Jim Cornette showed up on RAW in 1993 what was just as shocking as Cornette being there, was Vince McMahon on commentary talking about Smoky Mountain Wrestling. This was the first I recall of another promotion being acknowledged on WWF TV. I've heard it said that the NWA was mentioned a couple of times in the 1980s, I think on a Pipers Pit with Greg Valentine on as a guest and possibly Gorilla Monsoon and Lord Alfred talking about Terry Funk. Were there any other notable instances before the late 90s when you had the ECW invasion, AAA being namedropped when they brought Luchadores in, and an occasional mention of WCW by name? I don't believe NWA or WCW were ever specifically named when Flair came in with his "Real World Title" nor was USWA ever brought up in relation to Jerry Lawler even though Vince and others were appearing on USWA TV. Did AJW ever get a mention when they brought in Aja Kong and the other Joshi wrestlers in late '95? 

[odessasteps]

Well, They did mention the death of David Von Erich on WWF TV. And Vince showed clips of other promotions on All American (largely to scout talent to steal).

[BloodyChamp]

On that note did Gordon Solie congratulate the Ultimate Warrior for beating Hogan on the WCW Control Center? I thought I read that more than once but never saw it.

[Happ Hazzard]

I know Giant Baba was mentioned in the 80s (by Gorilla Monsoon, when Heenan alleged that Giant Machine was clearly Andre the Giant, Monsoon replied that it could be Giant Baba under the mask) but I don't think AJPW ever got namedropped. Maybe NJPW got mentioned very early on in the expansion era when there was still a relationship between the companies. Did Michinoku Pro get a mention during one of the  Sasuke/Taka matches? Did they credit IWA when showing footage of Cactus Jack winning the KOTDM '95 tournament?

[colonial]

Bruno also made mention of Giant Baba during the first few weeks of the Machines angle, referring to him as "Baba the Giant." Again, no reference to All Japan.

On the Buddy Rose Piper's Pit clip that I posted after Orndorff's death, Piper makes mention that he and Rose worked together elsewhere, but does not go into too much specifics.

When Flair and the "Real World's Title" showed up, I believe Heenan and others would always say the belt was from "another promotion" and not an official WWF title.

Not TV, but I swear I remember a WWF Magazine article from 1984-85 that mentioned Hogan wrestling Tatsumi Fujinami in Japan, but did not say anything about NJPW (it was more "Hogan is a world champion who travels the world").

 

 

[odessasteps]

Didnt they tease heat between Piper and Valentine the first time he did pipers Pit? 

[zendragon]

Did Bruno or Buddy Rogers ever do the World Champ vs World Champ deal?

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

Did Bruno or Buddy Rogers ever do the World Champ vs World Champ deal?

Buddy is likely a complicated answer. 

[Mister TV]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

Did Bruno or Buddy Rogers ever do the World Champ vs World Champ deal?

Bruno turned down a run as Unified WWWF/NWA champ due to the insane schedule that was proposed, Lou Thesz also asked for a huge payday to do the job. Bruno wrestled Harley Race to a draw in a match for the NWA belt, it wasn’t a champ vs. champ match since it was during Pedro’s run as WWWF champ. The Bruno-Freddie Blassie matches may have been initially been WWWF Champion vs. West Coast or Pacific Champion, but then morphed into just Blassie trying to win the WWWF belt, I think Blassie lost the WWA World belt when he left Los Angeles for New York. The Bruno-Ray Stevens match in San Francisco was WWWF Champion vs. US Champion, the San Francisco promotion was out of the NWA at that point and the US Title was their top championship. 
 

There was no chance of Rogers doing any type of World Champion vs. World Champion match during his brief run as WWWF Champ.

 

[DMJ]

So...

The long-held "theory" is that Rey Mysterio got his first World Championship largely due to the death of Eddie Guerrero, but I've always had the feeling, as a relatively consistent viewer at the time, that Rey was actually being positioned for the big WrestleMania win as early as October/November 2005.

For starters, Rey Mysterio had long been one of the most marketable, merch-friendly wrestlers in the company by this point. He was prominent on TV because of his consistency and ability to work with absolutely anybody, kids loved him no matter how many times he lost, and even older WWE generally held him in the same reverence as Eddie and Benoit in terms of in-ring ability. 

Second, if you look at that year's Rumble and the previous few WrestleManias, Vince was definitely trying to build up the credentials of various talents. In 2004, it was Eddie and Benoit (the latter swiftly finding himself back down the card because, truthfully, the charisma and marketability weren't there). In 05', it was Batista and Cena and Orton. In 06', I think Vince saw Edge and Mysterio as being guys who were on-the-brink of being legit main eventers who just needed that one big win to cement their status.

In both cases, happenstance played a hand. For Edge, it was becoming the top heel in the business based on an off-screen affair. For Mysterio, it would be the death of Guerrero. But the seeds were planted for Edge's push when he won the Money in the Bank months before "LitaGate" and, for Mysterio, I think the seeds were planted in the summer of 2005, when the Mysterio/Eddie storyline was the most talked-about story in wrestling outside of Hogan's return. That storyline had touched a nerve in the fans and Vince saw $$$ in keeping Mysterio near the top of the card. 

So, has Bruce Pritchard or any other writer ever talked about whether Rey was pencilled in for a big push before Eddie's death? Watching back some of the PPVs (like No Mercy 2005, for example), I think there are some hints that he might've been getting the big Rumble win and the feel-good Mania win before Eddie passed away and am kinda peeved by fans thinking the only reason Rey, who sold a ton of merch, got great live reactions for years, had the respect of all his peers, and (if I'm not mistaken) was also somewhat of a TV draw, didn't "deserve" to be a World Champion. I mean, a year earlier, Chris Benoit won it and he probably brought in a fraction of the money that Mysterio did.

 

[DreamBroken]

1 hour ago, DMJ said:

So, has Bruce Pritchard or any other writer ever talked about whether Rey was pencilled in for a big push before Eddie's death? Watching back some of the PPVs (like No Mercy 2005, for example), I think there are some hints that he might've been getting the big Rumble win and the feel-good Mania win before Eddie passed away and am kinda peeved by fans thinking the only reason Rey, who sold a ton of merch, got great live reactions for years, had the respect of all his peers, and (if I'm not mistaken) was also somewhat of a TV draw, didn't "deserve" to be a World Champion. I mean, a year earlier, Chris Benoit won it and he probably brought in a fraction of the money that Mysterio did.

 

Court Bauer said the Rumble was a 'week of' decision, between Rey & HHH. He said him, Bruce, and Patterson wanted Rey while everyone else wanted HHH to win but Pat's influence is what got Rey the win and Vince had to be convinced.

Original WM 22 plans had Eddie vs Shawn Michaels, with Orton/Batista as the world title feud before Batista got hurt, so it's been assumed that Rey might have just been in MITB in that case. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I think all it takes is seeing the post Mania booking to see that wasn't the plan. In theory I could go with your premise. But the fact that the second he won the title he started losing all the time, doesn't really line up with the him being protected / lined up for a big push. It comes off as it was. Vince was begrudgingly pushed into the feel good story and in retaliation he booked Mysterio as way too much of an afterthought as a champion.

I get that characters are different and Mysterio worked because he was always the underdog. Like just because Rey won they shouldn't have started booking him like Super Cena. But they went all the way the other way with it. He lost every single non title match he was in just about. That's not how you book someone you had meaningful plans for. It was the right call to put the title on Rey, he was ready. But the way it happened probably hurt his career more than it helped him. At least he got that second reign that lasted almost a whole episode of Raw during The Summer of Punk.

[J.H.]

I don't think booking Rey that way really hurt him that much, simply by that point in his career Rey was as bulletproof as a guy can get. It was only people on boards like this and the dirtsheets that really griped about it. Rey was the babyface of babyfaces, he could lose every non-tit;e match, still have the fan support that it wasn't  going to hurt him as any kind of draw simply because he is Rey Mysterio Jr and people are always gonna love him.

James

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Disagree. After years of struggle Rey climbed the mountain and became the world champion. And in doing so was booked as if he was at the bottom of the mountain, not the top. He was always a flashy underdog that didn't win every match. But he was never a jobber that lost every single match he wrestled. He went from flashy underdog to enhancement talent with a shiny accessory. That doesn't create intrigue. It makes Rey less valuable. It makes your title less valuable. And it makes the next champion less valuable when you win the title off of a guy on a 50 match losing streak. Who does that help?

Now Rey was over before the title win, during the title win, and after. But that is irrelevant. It was poor booking with no positives for anyone involved. You're supposed to be creating stories that people want to see. No one wants to see likable flashy underdog who finally won the world champion, treated as unworthy of the big accomplishment he finally achieved.

[Shane]

What’s the story with the Frank Frazetta-esque painting that hangs behind Lance Russell/Dave Brown in the Memphis studio?  It’s a thing I’ve seen 1000x, but never really thought about until today. Did Lawler paint it? A fan?