The Old School Questions thread

[Matt D]

5 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Why are Orndorff's initials reversed on some of his trunks? 

You try putting trunks on right with one working arm?

[Technico Support]

Was this the 80s?  Ocean Pacific was a really hot brand for a little while back then.

Man, that and Panama Jack were my jam back them.  And Jams.

 

[Pete]

9 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Why are Orndorff's initials reversed on some of his trunks? 

The story I've heard was he got a shipment of gear with the initials reversed by accident. Either he coincidentally got a big push or started clicking in the ring with fans around the same time, so he kept it going for good luck.

[Shartnado]

The "on paper" super stacked card of Halloween Havoc 1998 got me thinking, what would be some of the most kayfabe stacked cards with most former-, current- and future (as of today) world champions on them? Maybe discounting things like Royal Rumbles, but cards (probably PPV level cards only) with singles, tags and multiperson matches? Anyone feeling like getting their spreadsheet on? Or give a suggestion based on a hunch, do your own research, I don't mind.

I think the most interesting aspect is the future world champions part. Which cards have plenty of guys on the under card that would eventually reach a(n Apter mag level recognised) World title, on top of the main eventers and former main eventers of the time?

[Kev]

1 hour ago, Shartnado said:

The "on paper" super stacked card of Halloween Havoc 1998 got me thinking, what would be some of the most kayfabe stacked cards with most former-, current- and future (as of today) world champions on them? 

My instinct is the 01-04 era where you had the former top WCW guys gradually coming in, plus the likes of Eddie, Edge, Cena, etc. in the midcard. Looking at the Manias around then, the most stacked looks like XX, I got 22 WWE world champs in matches, plus Austin as a ref, an Impact champ (Bubba), ROH (Noble) and NWA (Conway). I’m not sure on women’s title reigns, but you’ve got at least 3 there as well (Sable, Molly, Victoria).

Some of the multi-man match PPVs (Survivor Series, Eliminatuon Chamber, MITB) during a brand split have got to be high as well. Looking at Survivor Series’ in the late 00s early 10s, the most I got was 19 (if we count Matt Hardy’s WWECW reign).

[Shartnado]

Yeah, I have a feeling that it would be "surprisingly" recent PPV too, as in happened within the past 20-25 years or so.

[Kev]

Yeah, I think it has to be, between shorter/more reigns and how WWE basically became the only game in town for so long.

If you transported the guys from the cards I mentioned back to the mid-90s then there’s no way they’re all in the same promotion, likely spread across at least WWF, WCW and ECW, and therefore not appearing on the same cards, and it would get more scattered the further back you went.

Its hard to do like for like comparisons across eras but I’d argue someone like Ziggler is comparable to Santana in terms of tenure and value to the company, but Ziggler’s probably got about 4x the midcard/tag title reigns, plus a couple world title reigns. I’d guess that on average, the modern day wrestler is (kayfabe) a lot more decorated than their predecessors.

[AxB]

They probably would have done, only they had the 80s version of the Speaking Out movement and he got blacklisted.

[Shartnado]

Yeah, and to think Santana had more than average title reigns during his tenure compared to plenty of other guys from that era WWF, aside from the main belt. I mean in this conversation Jake the Snake means fuck all, for example. Duggan means jack shit, Piper is at zero world singles titles as well. All icons of their era, but with so few world title reigns to go around, a lot less decorated, just as you said.

[Kev]

24 minutes ago, AxB said:

They probably would have done, only they had the 80s version of the Speaking Out movement and he got blacklisted.

Not to go all sleaze thread but what’s this about? Santana?

[AxB]

Not seen this, then?

[Kev]

Ah right, think your original reply was in the wrong thread.

[Log]

I went to this show. It was my first indie show in a long time. I didn’t know most of the guys on it. A bunch of them did pretty good for themselves. 
 

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=667

 

[BobbyWhioux]

since I brought it up in the get drunk and post themes thread my latest old school question is:

Why did Jim Powers A] always get theme music (and pretty good theme music besides) despite being a perpetual jobber, and/or B] why did he never get a chance to be anything more than a perennial jobber (especially after the Young Stallions split up) even when they went through all the trouble of giving him actual theme music?

Did he piss the wrong someone off?  A lot of the wrong someones?  Did he actually prefer to be a jobber?  Was his offense really that much worse than his selling?  Did anyone ever actually try pushing him?  I know he did turn up in that weird WCW promotional music video along with Alex Wright, Joe Gomez, and some other guy, but he (and all 4 of them actually) just kept on losing the way they always did after that.

So what gives?

[twiztor]

5 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

since I brought it up in the get drunk and post themes thread my latest old school question is:

Why did Jim Powers A] always get theme music (and pretty good theme music besides) despite being a perpetual jobber, and/or B] why did he never get a chance to be anything more than a perennial jobber (especially after the Young Stallions split up) even when they went through all the trouble of giving him actual theme music?

Did he piss the wrong someone off?  A lot of the wrong someones?  Did he actually prefer to be a jobber?  Was his offense really that much worse than his selling?  Did anyone ever actually try pushing him?  I know he did turn up in that weird WCW promotional music video along with Alex Wright, Joe Gomez, and some other guy, but he (and all 4 of them actually) just kept on losing the way they always did after that.

So what gives?

if i were to give it one reason, he wasn't a good promo. He had the look, he was decent enough in the ring, but his charisma and promo skills were severely lacking. there was just always somebody better around, so it never got to be his turn.

i listened to a shoot interview with him a few years ago. it was interesting but nothing amazing. He doesn't seem bitter at all, and said he enjoyed his time as "enhancement talent". talked about how he rarely got to win, but at least he got to wrestle every big star around.

re: cards that looked great, i remember buying the VHS (!) of No Mercy 2000 because the lineup on the back of the box looked amazing. This would've been a few years after it happened, and i likely would have watched it live on PPV, but i had no recollection of this awesome card taking place.  The VHS didn't really live up to the hype, which should be a no-brainer since the PPV didn't leave a lasting impression. Doesn't live up to the former/future World Champ debate, but i feel like it is in line with HH98.

No DQ / WWF Title: Kurt Angle vs. the Rock (c)
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit
Tag Team Titles: Hardy Boys (c) vs. Los Conquistadores (Edge & Christian)
European Title: William Regal (c) vs. Naked Mideon (wtf?!?)
No Holds Barred: Steve Austin vs. Rikishi (this was Austin's return from injury/getting hit by a car)
Cage Match: Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac
plus the Dudley Boyz in a Tables Gauntlet Match

[Gordi the BJW fan]

19 hours ago, Shartnado said:

The "on paper" super stacked card of Halloween Havoc 1998 got me thinking, what would be some of the most kayfabe stacked cards with most former-, current- and future (as of today) world champions on them? Maybe discounting things like Royal Rumbles, but cards (probably PPV level cards only) with singles, tags and multiperson matches? Anyone feeling like getting their spreadsheet on? Or give a suggestion based on a hunch, do your own research, I don't mind.

I think the most interesting aspect is the future world champions part. Which cards have plenty of guys on the under card that would eventually reach a(n Apter mag level recognised) World title, on top of the main eventers and former main eventers of the time?

I was actually thinking about something similar the other day:

Beach Blast 1992

Dark match: The Junkyard Dog, Tom Zenk and Big Josh vs Tracy Smothers, Richard Morton and Diamond Dallas Page
Scotty Flamingo vs Brian Pillman (c) for the WCW Light Heavyweight Championship 
Ron Simmons vs Terry Taylor 
Greg Valentine vs Marcus Bagwell 
Sting vs Cactus Jack in a Falls Count Anywhere match 
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude [4-3] in an Iron Man Challenge (30:00)
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham and Nikita Koloff vs The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Steve Austin and Bobby Eaton) (w/ Paul E. Dangerously and Madusa) 
The Steiner Brothers (Rick & Scott Steiner) vs. The Miracle Violence Connection (Terry Gordy & Steve Williams) for the WCW World Tag Team Championship 

Probably perceived as kind of a nothing card back in '92, not too hyped up, no-one ordering it with any kind of huge expectations...

No Flair, no Hogan... probably, at the time, seemed pretty low on star power for a major pro wrestling show. 

But, man, look at that line-up! Other than the Z-Man, Doink, and Buff it's pretty much all first ballot hall of fame pro wrestlers up and down the card. 

And in terms of guys on the mid-card who would eventually hit it big? How about Foley, Austin, DDP, and Raven?

And who would have thought at the time that two of those mid-card matches (The Falls Count Anywhere nd the Iron Man) would end up as all-time greats that people still watch and talk about today? 

Has to be one of the most overachieving cards of the '90s, at the very least. 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by El Gran Gordi

[Infinit]

5 minutes ago, El Gran Gordi said:

I was actually thinking about something similar the other day:

Beach Blast 1992

Dark match: The Junkyard Dog, Tom Zenk and Big Josh vs Tracy Smothers, Richard Morton and Diamond Dallas Page
Scotty Flamingo vs Brian Pillman (c) for the WCW Light Heavyweight Championship 
Ron Simmons vs Terry Taylor 
Greg Valentine vs Marcus Bagwell 
Sting vs Cactus Jack in a Falls Count Anywhere match 
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude [4-3] in an Iron Man Challenge (30:00)
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham and Nikita Koloff vs The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Steve Austin and Bobby Eaton) (w/ Paul E. Dangerously and Madusa) 
The Steiner Brothers (Rick & Scott Steiner) vs. The Miracle Violence Connection (Terry Gordy & Steve Williams) for the WCW World Tag Team Championship 

Probably perceived as kind of a nothing card back in '92, not too hyped up, no-one ordering it with any kind of huge expectations...

No Flair, no Hogan... probably, at the time, seemed pretty low on star power for a major pro wrestling show. 

But, man, look at that line-up! Other than the Z-Man, Doink, and Buff it's pretty much all first ballot hall of fame pro wrestlers up and down the card. 

And in terms of guys on the mid-card who would eventually hit it big? How about Foley, Austin, DDP, and Raven?

And who would have thought at the time that two of those mid-card matches (The Falls Count Anywhere nd the Iron Man) would end up as all-time greats that people still watch and talk about today? 

Has to be one of the most overachieving cards of the '90s, at the very least. 

 

Cosigning this...great call!

[Shartnado]

Beach Blast 1992, even the 2h edited down Turner Home Video version was one of the favorite tapes I have ever owned. The full version is indeed pretty ridiculous! Great value for one's money, and then some!

[bobholly138]

On 3/21/2021 at 9:59 PM, El Gran Gordi said:

I was actually thinking about something similar the other day:

Beach Blast 1992

Dark match: The Junkyard Dog, Tom Zenk and Big Josh vs Tracy Smothers, Richard Morton and Diamond Dallas Page
Scotty Flamingo vs Brian Pillman (c) for the WCW Light Heavyweight Championship 
Ron Simmons vs Terry Taylor 
Greg Valentine vs Marcus Bagwell 
Sting vs Cactus Jack in a Falls Count Anywhere match 
Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude [4-3] in an Iron Man Challenge (30:00)
Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham and Nikita Koloff vs The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Steve Austin and Bobby Eaton) (w/ Paul E. Dangerously and Madusa) 
The Steiner Brothers (Rick & Scott Steiner) vs. The Miracle Violence Connection (Terry Gordy & Steve Williams) for the WCW World Tag Team Championship 

Probably perceived as kind of a nothing card back in '92, not too hyped up, no-one ordering it with any kind of huge expectations...

No Flair, no Hogan... probably, at the time, seemed pretty low on star power for a major pro wrestling show. 

But, man, look at that line-up! Other than the Z-Man, Doink, and Buff it's pretty much all first ballot hall of fame pro wrestlers up and down the card. 

And in terms of guys on the mid-card who would eventually hit it big? How about Foley, Austin, DDP, and Raven?

And who would have thought at the time that two of those mid-card matches (The Falls Count Anywhere nd the Iron Man) would end up as all-time greats that people still watch and talk about today? 

Has to be one of the most overachieving cards of the '90s, at the very least. 

 

This was the first PPV I attended. Hadn't watched much WCW when it was leading up to it. Was over in Mobile AL at the record store. Saw a poster for the event. Had just finished high school. Dad got him and I tickets as my birthday present that year. 

Ended up 4th or 5th row right next to the ramp. We show up a few times during the Cactus vs Sting match.  

2 things I remember about this event.

 

Across the arena for us was a platform where a bunch of people from a home for special needs adults were sitting. Most of the faces came out and took pics with these adults. But Ron Simmons was out there from when we got there until right before the dark match started. Somewhere's in a bin I got a picture of Ron giving this one dwarf a piggy back ride.

The other thing is after the dark match TOny Schivonne got on the mic. "OK We go live on PPV in 5 minutes so I want everybody to stand up and wave your arms all over the place to show how excited yall are" Then you hear someone in the crowd yell "YEA THAT WAY IT WILL COVER UP ALL THE EMPTY SEATS."

I know official stuff says they drew 5k. There is no way there was 5k in there. The floor was full. But 90% of the riser and bleacher seats were empty. I'm guessing at most 1k and I doubt it was that many.

 

 

[Shartnado]

I just saw a Bob Backlund vs Iron Mike Sharpe squash on '93 Superstars. Sharpe challenged Backlund for the (W)WWF title somewhere in the early 80's. Can you think of other examples where a former World title match is later reduced to a tv squash? And let's flip the question while we're at it: Have you seen squashes where the participants later ended up wrestling for the World title? Aside from John Cena vs Brian Danielson?

[odessasteps]

My first thought was Flair vs young Budro on JCP TV in the early 80s. 

Guys who started as TV fodder, as potential candiates: Arn, Foley. Smothers, HBK, Hall, Big Bubba, Rich. 

[Infinit]

Did the Hardy boys have any title matches down the line with any of their early squash opponents?

[PetrolCB]

3 hours ago, Infinit said:

Did the Hardy boys have any title matches down the line with any of their early squash opponents?

Off the top of my head:

123 Kid faced Jeff Hardy, then a few years later as XPac, they had a few matches for the Light Heavyweight title.

The Ringmaster's first match was against Matt Hardy, then several years later, Austin faced Hardy during the Two Man Power Trip feud with the Hardys.

RVD beat Jeff on Raw in '97 during the ECW Invasion. Years later, they're feuding over the Hardcore title (and I think the Intercontinental).

Edited March 23, 2021 by PetrolCB

[Hamhock]

Foley wrestled Davey Boy in a tag match (as part of the Bulldogs) in his WWF jobber debut in 1986, then defeated him/Owen for the tag titles with Austin in 1997.

[Kev]

I think Kane may have squashed both Hardys early in his run, although not sure if it was an actual match, I just remember a double choke slam spot being used in video packages.

I can’t actually think of any title matches between them, but there was the fairly high-profile Kane-Matt feud over Lita years later.

On a similar theme,  what would be some of the most WTF squashes in hindsight? Future stars on the losing end against guys who flamed out/became career jobbers themselves?