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Wrestling What Ifs

Web Conn

By Web Conn,
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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Are we assuming the non-big 4 PPV's are 2h, 5 match cards like the early IYH's?

We could have had that Steiners vs Bret/Owen match on PPV in late '93

Probably Savage vs Bret before WM IX or after X.

Flair-Perfect Loser leaves WWF would definitely be on PPV

Tatanka vs Yokozuna late '93 would have been a PPV match.

Razor Ramon vs Mr Perfect

Yokozuna vs Razor Ramon

Flair vs Piper in '91

I don't know how they'd get there, but I would have liked to see Bulldog vs Ultimate Warrior in 1991!

There are soooo many great possibilities, but there's a good chance that the actual PPV's that did happen in real life, wouldn't look anything like actually did, in this What If-time line.

 

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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14 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

I wonder if the monthly PPV model comes early, then you fast track the multi man/team matches that didn't really turn up until mid to late 96 in the WWF.

That Shawn/Bret/Taker dark match that did the loop on RAW would have been pretty cool. (and yes there were monthly PPVs by then) 

 

If that was the case, then you could also pretty much count on Bret vs Shawn vs Bulldog in 1992, and maybe ( just maybe) Hogan vs Warrior vs Sid in '91 (if the monthly PPV's would have been a thing for a good while at that point).

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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1 minute ago, RolandTHTG said:

I wonder if the monthly PPV model comes early, then you fast track the multi man/team matches that didn't really turn up until mid to late 96 in the WWF.

That Shawn/Bret/Taker dark match that did the loop on RAW would have been pretty cool. (and yes there were monthly PPVs by then) 

 

Thanks to probably politics and various people having movie/TV commitments, WCW during the MNW was able to save major matches on the non big PPVs and instead went with gimmick and throwaway multi-man matches. Go to any random WCW PPV from from late 95 to 98, and it's just some forgettable match that's the extension of or something adjacent to the main programs. If you're hot as fish grease, you can do those matches and not burn through anything. In addition, it's not like guys didn't feud for the entire year anyway (see: DDP vs. Savage) during the monthly PPV era.

The problem is just the economics of it. WWF certainly would have made more money, but does that make the down period even worse? From the mid 80s to mid 90s, you could throw anything with the right marketing and advertising on PPV. Everyone out of the gate could be successful (see the early numbered UFC cards). The problem is when the market got oversaturated especially during the TVKO (HBO PPV) and SET (Showtime PPV) era in the mid 90s. The PPVs that use to be on random weekdays like Monday, Wednesdays, and Thursday progressively got moved to Fridays or the weekend to exploit the viewers who definitely would be at home. Now, you're encroaching on wrestling territory which had moved away from doing major events on like Thanksgiving/Thanksgiving eve or Christmas Day or on a random school night to weekends to do the very same thing. Eventually, boxing became about megabouts, and by the early 2000s, people began to pick and choose. You had fights that broke records, but you also had more abysmal buyrates where promoters and networks overpaid for certain fights. It only got worse as the decade progressed. By 2017/2018, which was the end of HBO Boxing, you had the one maybe two fights a year that broke a million or more, one fight that may have broke a quarter million, and a few fights that struggled to break 150k. That's the type of devastation that was reeked upon the boxing PPV model. Now there was other factors in that, but you could see it coming several years in advance. If WWF did the monthly PPV model from 85 to 90, they would have done remarkably well. However, after that, it would have collapsed just like the interest in the promotion. In 92-94, it would have been so bad numbers wise they would have done the inverse of what they did w/ the IYH concept and just went back to Royal Rumble/Mania/maybe KotR/Summerslam/Survivor Series only. Either way, I believe they go back to monthly PPV by 98 if everything else lines up. So if anything, it would've just been setting the course for the inevitable and balanced itself out. All the money they left on the table, they would have gotten. However, they would lost more money running PPVs very few people wanted to see. I don't see them giving away matches until the blowoff on a big PPV.

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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14 minutes ago, (BP) said:

This would have broken down into a shoot over who gets to spend most of the match laying down on the outside. 

If Warrior still gets shitcanned in '91, I actually see him eating a controversial pin on this one, so maybe he gets to do least in the match because of it. He would take both Powerbomb and Legdrop before staying down, though. Collision with Hogan, Sid rolls him up in confusion, maybe pull the tights or steps on his hair to keep him down.

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elizium

elizium

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15 hours ago, The Great ML said:

Hogan vs. Volkoff, One Man Gang, Kamala, Orndorff, Perfect, Rude, etc.

Hogan must pose.

Along this line, I figure if there are monthly PPVs, then we probably don't get SNME. So stuff like the Bossman and Orndorff cages become PPV mains. This might not even be a bad thing, maybe that means the SNME match between Hulk and Terry Funk becomes a month long program and the match gets an extra 10 minutes and a definitive finish. Yes please.

Assuming you don't want to overexpose Hogan, off months probably main with stuff like Bulldog matches or Savage IC defences. Hogan still appears, but probably just in an interview segment.

Maybe the even try to gauge Wendy Richter's popularity by having her on top of a PPV.

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Elsalvajeloco

Elsalvajeloco

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4 minutes ago, elizium said:

Along this line, I figure if there are monthly PPVs, then we probably don't get SNME. So stuff like the Bossman and Orndorff cages become PPV mains. This might not even be a bad thing, maybe that means the SNME match between Hulk and Terry Funk becomes a month long program and the match gets an extra 10 minutes and a definitive finish. Yes please.

Assuming you don't want to overexpose Hogan, off months probably main with stuff like Bulldog matches or Savage IC defences. Hogan still appears, but probably just in an interview segment.

Maybe the even try to gauge Wendy Richter's popularity by having her on top of a PPV.

I was actually watching SNME (the one with Steamboat vs. Jake where Ricky brings a "dragon" to the ring) when I saw this What If posed last night and thought something similar. I think because of the time SNME would have still done big ratings, but the relationship with NBC would have dissolved way quicker.

Another thing I've noticed so far is that Saturday's Night Main Event was so skit heavy (the Halloween one with a clearly coked up Roddy Piper is something to behold) early on and then went more in-ring wrestling oriented. Well, after a bunch of interviews and standups of course. I think they might have noticed a pattern where people were tuning out during those skits and were probably frustrated watching 5 or 6 minute matches with fuck finishes. If that was indeed the case, more wrestling probably means you take away the novelty of seeing all the big stars every so often if they're also on PPV every month.

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zendragon

zendragon

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On 9/12/2020 at 11:22 PM, Shartnado said:

Are we assuming the non-big 4 PPV's are 2h, 5 match cards like the early IYH's?

We could have had that Steiners vs Bret/Owen match on PPV in late '93

Probably Savage vs Bret before WM IX or after X.

Flair-Perfect Loser leaves WWF would definitely be on PPV

Tatanka vs Yokozuna late '93 would have been a PPV match.

Razor Ramon vs Mr Perfect

Yokozuna vs Razor Ramon

Flair vs Piper in '91

I don't know how they'd get there, but I would have liked to see Bulldog vs Ultimate Warrior in 1991!

There are soooo many great possibilities, but there's a good chance that the actual PPV's that did happen in real life, wouldn't look anything like actually did, in this What If-time line.

 

Probably the Flair - Bret title change as well

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Mister TV

Mister TV

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17 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

the most obvious underlooked choice is  Hogan-Flair.  It would have to be on PPV at some point in 1991-1992.  Possibly with Sid/Savage on the under card or Sid/Taker  mix in some Boss man/Mountie and Rockers Orrient Express on the under card and you can have my $$

But doing Hogan-Flair on PPV would potentially hurt the house shows they were headlining. Doing monthly PPV's in that timeframe would have hurt the house show business big time and house shows were the main revenue driver, running three shows a night with double shots on the weekend brings in a lot of cash when you factor in merchandise sales. Doing a monthly ppv is going to cut into that when you factor in the lost revenue from running only 1 event the day of the ppv, along with the expense of the tv production and satellite time.

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paintedbynumbers

paintedbynumbers

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You would have to have Hogan-Flair on PPV at some point.  All the magazines were running the "what if" articles for years. Vince had to know he would be attracting a big portion of the WCW fan base wanting to see Flair. If you are doing monthly PPV's you would have to do that match.  Hell Push Flair-Savage and Sid-Hogan back a month and do Flair-Hogan at mania like they should have done.  Run Jake-Savage at mania with a stipulation, and  do Sid-Taker and have Taker keep moving towards a face turn.  It could have worked.  House shows or not, no internet in the early 90's. Most fans wouldn't know the results of Hogan/Flair house show matches nor would they be able to actually watch them. The PPV main would have sold to both WWF and WCW fans and would have probably been WWF's best selling PPV for that time period. 

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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4 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

You would have to have Hogan-Flair on PPV at some point.  All the magazines were running the "what if" articles for years. Vince had to know he would be attracting a big portion of the WCW fan base wanting to see Flair. If you are doing monthly PPV's you would have to do that match.  Hell Push Flair-Savage and Sid-Hogan back a month and do Flair-Hogan at mania like they should have done.  Run Jake-Savage at mania with a stipulation, and  do Sid-Taker and have Taker keep moving towards a face turn.  It could have worked.  House shows or not, no internet in the early 90's. Most fans wouldn't know the results of Hogan/Flair house show matches nor would they be able to actually watch them. The PPV main would have sold to both WWF and WCW fans and would have probably been WWF's best selling PPV for that time period. 

All of this, plus the hypothetical paradigm shift of monthly PPV's already having been a thing since the '80's. That could have already changed the importance of house shows as a revenue generating vehicle at that point. Probably not to a money-losing venture they are now, but their importance could very well have already lessened by then.

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paintedbynumbers

paintedbynumbers

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16 hours ago, Shartnado said:

All of this, plus the hypothetical paradigm shift of monthly PPV's already having been a thing since the '80's. That could have already changed the importance of house shows as a revenue generating vehicle at that point. Probably not to a money-losing venture they are now, but their importance could very well have already lessened by then.

I don't think house shows are hurt as much as you guys think. Sure they will be in bigger markets but in cities like Erie, Pa, or Youngstown Ohio  that doesn't get TV  the fans will still come out as it would be the only time they could see the show live. Just run smaller towns for house shows that will sell out on a continual basis and leave the big cities for tv and ppv. 

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

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On 9/16/2020 at 5:52 AM, zendragon said:

I wonder if they would have done a one off on a B PPV for Hogan-Flair considering it didn't draw well. Do they just do it to do it and move on or just cancel the program

I think they do the Sid/Hogan vs Taker/Flair match that they did on SNME. 

I would have liked to see either a Sid/Hogan vs Flair/Savage dynamic (similar to the Taker/Batista vs Shawn/Cena dynamic), or even the Mega Powers reuniting to take on Sid and Flair.

Hogan and Savage's dynamic post 1991 was weird.

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Hogan and Savage's dynamic post 1991 was weird.

Yeah, Savage and Piper DID come to Hogan's aid when The Undertaker was attacking him prior to Survivor Series'91, but there was always a certain uneasiness between them (both real and kayfabe, I guess). If you don't consider the real life mess between them, the story-line uneasiness is actually kinda nice touch, as they could never truly trust each other again, even when fighting common enemies (in WCW, mostly).

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