June 2024 Wrestling Talk

[madl]

Quote

Honestly, I wonder why he got the call up if they knew he was borderline for release anyway. (Unless, of course, he's been on a main roster level contract this whole time.)

Bryan Alvarez said on WOL that Dijak was still making his main roster salary in NXT.

[ka-to]

12 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

The Reddit/SC “What's something that is kayfabe you thought was real?” thread is bringing us people who didn’t realize Yokozuna was Samoan until his HOF induction, that Roddy Piper was Canadian, that Arn and Ole weren’t brothers, that Charlotte Flair’s first name isn’t Charlotte, that Scott Hall isn’t at least half Latino, and also a guy who believed the Heart Punch was legit

I have an opposite one. MMA showed me that the sleeper hold is legit. I thought that it was one of the dumbest kayfabe moves. 

[zendragon]

24 minutes ago, ka-to said:

I have an opposite one. MMA showed me that the sleeper hold is legit. I thought that it was one of the dumbest kayfabe moves. 

on a related not is anytime a wrestler uses a guillotine choke (or the undertakers hell's gate) a move that constricts the windpipe should be illegal under established pro wrestling rules 

[AxB]

I have seen a Boxing trainer suggest that punching someone in the heart can have a deleterious effect on them. And that's in 12oz gloves, imagine the damage a bare fist can do!

So anyway, World of Sport wrestling is supposedly coming back. Only it's the shitty 2018 WoS, not the good one from decades earlier. And also, they've not got telly this time. They've announced 4 wrestlers: Grado, Adam Maxted, Nightshade and Martin Kirby.

Now I love Martin Kirby, he's a great wrestler, but they're asking a lot of him there.

[JLowe]

4 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I always think of them as being Seans O'Haire

Funny because I was thinking Mark Jindrak, I recall O’Haire having a modicum of personality.

[SirSmUgly]

41 minutes ago, AxB said:

So anyway, World of Sport wrestling is supposedly coming back. Only it's the shitty 2018 WoS, not the good one from decades earlier. And also, they've not got telly this time. They've announced 4 wrestlers: Grado, Adam Maxted, Nightshade and Martin Kirby.

Now I love Martin Kirby, he's a great wrestler, but they're asking a lot of him there.

Wade Barrett on color was the only thing enjoyable about the revival, so not having television pretty much makes this whole deal probably unwatchable.

But if I come across a live show while I am visiting the UK, I will still go just to say I did.

[COLETTI]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

I have seen a Boxing trainer suggest that punching someone in the heart can have a deleterious effect on them. And that's in 12oz gloves, imagine the damage a bare fist can do!

American football player Damar Hamlin says hello. 

[Technico Support]

8 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Apologies for the back to back posts, but this bears repeating:

Reddit is very purposefully trying to bury this information in light of its IPO, but the average user's age is 12.

This is likely why every time I visit SC, I end up in a heated argument about something I saw with my very own eyes - "Well, that's not what Bischoff said in the documentary..." I was in the building!!!!

Kids, man.

Dude, I saw someone there say that Ron Killings won the NWA title “back when it meant something.”  Smoke came out of my ears.  That belt hasn’t meant shit since 91.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

9 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Apologies for the back to back posts, but this bears repeating:

Reddit is very purposefully trying to bury this information in light of its IPO, but the average user's age is 12.

This is likely why every time I visit SC, I end up in a heated argument about something I saw with my very own eyes - "Well, that's not what Bischoff said in the documentary..." I was in the building!!!!

Kids, man.

Going to Reddit is like asking someone to hit you in the head with a tack hammer.

You could, but why would you?

[tbarrie]

9 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Reddit is very purposefully trying to bury this information in light of its IPO, but the average user's age is 12.

Was this a typo? A quick Googling found multiple sites saying it's 23, which sounds more plausible.

I mean, I could see it being in the teens - but twelve?

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, tbarrie said:

Was this a typo? A quick Googling found multiple sites saying it's 23, which sounds more plausible.

I mean, I could see it being in the teens - but twelve?

Oh man I might've gotten fake news'ed - I'll look into it. Thanks

[Nice Guy Eddie]

2 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Was this a typo? A quick Googling found multiple sites saying it's 23, which sounds more plausible.

I mean, I could see it being in the teens - but twelve?

lol, I'll pretend you said 18. 

[BloodyChamp]

Goldturd…even Jimmy Hart took a bump for him. He never took bumps in WCW. I know why…he was old even back then. He was older than the old guys. His wiki says he’s 80. Any time he’d ever get it from the good guy it’d be the corny reverse atomic drop and he hold his hiny and jump. So there he is against Goldberg who everybody has to almost die for and even he did it, right alongside the toughest one in real life. I know people are tired of hearing it but Goldberg was absolutely useless. His success is nothing but a testament to what you can do in wrestling when people all agree to make you look good and market you, which even WCW could do when they wanted to.

Edited June 29, 2024 by BloodyChamp

[username]

People say that and they are true to a degree, but there have been many people to get that kind of push and most didn't get as over as he did. I'm not gonna sit here and argue that he's a secret super worker because he ain't, but he brought some things like intensity and presence to the table that contributed to his success to a degree. It's basically a lesser version of the Sid deal: so many people say Sid was terrible and just steroids yet he succeeded in a way all those other roid heads did not, he had a magnetism too many people discard. He's also much better than Goldberg.

Back to Dijak I think he's perfect for a TNA or "indie name" run. He's got strengths and weaknesses but at that level I think he should be more than fine.

[BloodyChamp]

WCW didn’t truly push many people who they claimed to have pushed. They did push Sid, as they pushed  Goldberg from the start, complete with his first match prompting Gene to run to the ring to interview him which Goldberg ignored, then did again in the promoted rematch. 

That whole thing they did starting in 1998 or so where every opening match for a few weeks straight that they claimed was a push was no push. What I’m talking about is how they’d have somebody like Wrath beat jobbers all those weeks then just end it because nobody cared. Had they had some guy named Bill Goldberg doing the same thing those weeks nobody would have cared either. Nobody actually cared when he beat Hugh Morrus, but because of the actual effort they made to actually push Goldberg from the start literally complete with the subtle postmatch stuff and stick with it people did care soon. Personal/hurting people stuff aside and unknown at the time really, I just wasn’t a fan because of how much they had to invest into him. WCW had future world champions who were ready with way less investment and opportunity cost had they magically been able to get back on track after Starrcade 97.

Edited June 29, 2024 by BloodyChamp

[S.K.o.S.]

New wrestling crossword:

https://twitter.com/avalanchestyle/status/1807062717821534529

[clintthecrippler]

On 6/28/2024 at 8:24 AM, Curt McGirt said:

The Hernandez part also cracks me up. There has to be some earlier parallel we can make with these tall defined but not bulging and indistinct-of-character guys. Who would that be... I'm thinking of like Tyson Tomko or somebody. Test? Guys like that. CAW dudes.

BAM NEELY! DAN RODMAN! ERIC ESCOBAR! JACKSON ANDREWS!

[Zakk_Sabbath]

17 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

WCW had future world champions who were ready with way less investment and opportunity cost had they magically been able to get back on track after Starrcade 97.

A million percent agree with your whole post, but especially with this in particular - To me the biggest thing about Goldberg that everyone always misses is the complete lack of follow-up once he beat Hogan in the Georgia Dome - the entire summer was booked around Hogan as world champion being part of the celebrity matches. Everything Goldberg did between that match and probably the Page match at Havoc proves there was no true plan for him, otherwise Bischoff would've just "fast forwarded" to whatever they were gonna do with him once he won it later in the year or in early '99 - but that was never meant to be in the cards. The only reason Goldberg caught the title anyway is because Hogan wanted the Turner suits in attendance to think he drew the house, and because Bischoff agreed to let Hogan beat the streak at Starrcade - whatever political posturing led to it being Nash via Hall battle prod, I have no idea. But anyway, that's why they just had JJ randomly announce it on Thunder with only three days notice: there was never a plan for Goldberg - but more to your point, just like there was never a plan for Jericho, The Revolution/Radicalz, Rey, Giant, Raven, take your pick of anyone who left that year, f'n Scotty Riggs, Ultimate Warrior, it doesn't matter. There was no plans for anyone not named Hulk Hogan. Going back a couple pages, I think that's why people (at least young me) were actually excited for Russo/Ferrera in '99. Setting aside all the awful Jerry Springer stuff for a moment, it was nice to think of at least *someone* different on top - and even if that meant going back to a Bret or a Randy Savage or a Sting, as opposed to one of the guys I listed who left, it was at least fresher than the preceding two years of Hogan (notwithstanding the Goldberg run, which again, saw him having basically two legitimate PPV matches vs Page and Nash, and as someone else noted the other day, he had a nothing battle Royal at Hog Wild while Hogan main evented with Jay Leno, and was just straight up not on WWIII)

Edit and I forgot, he wrestled Curt Hennig at BATB while Hogan and Page had the Rodman/Malone tag in the main. So 3 singles PPV matches including the streak breaking at Starrcade

Edited June 29, 2024 by Zakk_Sabbath

[BloodyChamp]

LOL at Riggs because he was another guy they were “pushing” for weeks by having him beat nobodies. His push did achieve a protomeme though - the hilarious time he shook his hiny in cadence with the BOR-ING chants.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

22 hours ago, username said:

People say that and they are true to a degree, but there have been many people to get that kind of push and most didn't get as over as he did. I'm not gonna sit here and argue that he's a secret super worker because he ain't, but he brought some things like intensity and presence to the table that contributed to his success to a degree. It's basically a lesser version of the Sid deal: so many people say Sid was terrible and just steroids yet he succeeded in a way all those other roid heads did not, he had a magnetism too many people discard. He's also much better than Goldberg.

Yeah agree with you 100%. The anti-Goldberg takes are wild. If sticking with it would work for anyone why did it never work for Ryback? Or even Braun? Or any of the countless others that got the same dominant push as Goldberg for just as long but never broke through as a tippy top star? Goldberg's run was longer than Ultimate Warrior's run and he drew a lot more money. I'm not saying he's some super worker to be respected. But I am saying he had some really unique physical charisma that's being ignored.

He had this intriguing intensity and authenticity. They didn't plan to make Goldberg their world champion. They didn't plan for anything other than we're just gonna have this guy win a bunch and see what happens. And he got 100x more over than any other WCW baby (outside of Sting and DDP). Hell they even brought Warrior in who people compare Goldberg to a lot and Warrior was a nobody on the same show. That didn't happen with Sid being pushed. That didn't happen with Wrath being pushed. That didn't happen with that 1999 Bam Bam run. They used that same booking for a bunch of guys. They just didn't have the intangibles Goldberg did.

He was green. He was sloppy. He was dangerous. But you absolutely can not deny he had charisma and the it factor. It was like merging a dangerous Shamrock MMA guy with a no nonsense action movie cyborg. And just like we talk about no one else but Mark Calloway could have gotten that legendary run out of The Undertaker character, no one but Goldberg was able to maximize that kind of push the way he did. You can say it was the streak. But he was still just as over after the streak. He was still over in first that WWE run. And he was over in his late years resurgence.

I hate having to admit all this because I love Bret Hart. And it's undeniable that Goldberg was reckless and needlessly ended Bret's career. But it's just as undeniable that you needed the man Goldberg was to make that push work.

[BloodyChamp]

They did not use that same booking for those other guys and that comparison is way off. Heck one of those guys was only so called pushed so he could be fed to Goldberg, and not long after they finally did they were having to pipe in the Goldberg chants as the shrinking crowd waved Getting Oldberg signs.

Edited June 30, 2024 by BloodyChamp

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Hogan, Piper, & Flair were all headliners at the same time and the new guy that had been on tv for only 2 years and was 15 years younger than them had old insults hurled at him? I call BS on that. For whatever reason you have a tainted hindsight view.

They were piping the chants in basically the whole time. That isn't a smoking gun that he lost steam. Even during the shit ass Russo booking Goldberg remained one of the most over parts of what they had left.

When he debuted in WWE that man was over. That alone should discredit a lot of what you're saying. If Oldberg signs and crowd was sick of him and all that why was the crowd so excited when he showed up and speared The Rock? Goldberg is a performer full of faults. But aura, charisma, presence, connection with the audience, being over... none of those were ever lacking.

His nearest analog is Warrior. And they both had 3 runs. Warrior was a statr in his first. An after thought in his second (WWE) and a complete non factor in his third (WCW). Goldberg was over & valuable in all 3 of his runs (WCW, WWE 00s, WWE 10s).

I think you're really lacking objectivity in your reflection on who & what he actually was.

[BloodyChamp]

Oldberg wasn’t a reference to his age and you know that. Talk about lacking objectivity in a reflection of what actually was. It was a reference to the same old squash every week vs guys that the sign fans had never heard of, and guys who we’d only heard of because we knew the names of the jobbers from other shows and in some cases other lifetimes. Goldberg vs Len Denton next whoop! Most wrestlers get a reaction when they show back up unexpected. That’s really not a standard and if it is it’s one that guys like Marty Jannetty and Tatanka met. All that does is show another example of how others could get Goldberg’s same results with way less opportunity cost.

Edited June 30, 2024 by BloodyChamp

[zendragon]

WORLDS ARE COLLIDING!!!! 

[The Natural]

3 minutes ago, zendragon said:

WORLDS ARE COLLIDING!!!! 

WWE x UFC Forbidden Door!