Niners Fan in CT Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 There was a time where Sasha had Becky, Bayley, Charlotte, Ronda, Nia, Bianca and others' best matches... she was THE common denominator. Since then they've all had so many great matches that it's hard to rank them in any particular order. I'm excited to see her work all of the AEW women. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 The thing about Ratings talk is, we have a Ratings thread, where people who want to talk about ratings can do it, without bogging down the main TV and General threads with their nonsense. The last time anyone posted in it was like two months ago, but it's there. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 People are trying to quarantine the ratings talk again. The feeling has been restored. 1 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Great show. Mercedes came off like a proper mega star throughout. Wasn't sure about Okada's sudden turn but absolutely loving it already a week in, he was on fire here. Joe/Wardlow felt surprisingly short. Lionhook was fun and next week they implode already. rip Bang Bang Scissor Gang. Great main event, Riho matches are generally always fantastic, nice finish. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 28 minutes ago, Greggulator said: Dear god was this match amazing. And while I forget the context of it happening then, we do have the context of what happened over the next decade after this match. Women's matches have headlined WrestleManias. Women closing out Raw or Smackdown doesn't even make me bat an eye anymore. This match felt special at the time and it was somehow more special that we could imagine -- it literally changed wrestling history, and for the better. I honestly don't think it's a stretch to say Mercedes/Sasha is the most important wrestler this century. The 4HW all deserve credit, as do many others before them, but never forget crowds were always chanting "We Want Sasha." in 2014, people were still talking about Trish/Lita main eventing Raw 10 years prior as the high watermark of American women's wrestling, and the thought of getting anything better was not seriously considered. After Sasha's 2015 essentially wrapped up at Takeover Respect, it was 6 months before the word "diva" was purged from WWE lexicon, a year before women main evented a PPV, just over 2 years to main eventing a Rumble, and 3.5 years to main eventing Mania. Imagine telling somebody in 2012 that women will main event a freaking WM before the end of the decade. Looking back nearly 10 years now, it's easy to take for granted, but the opportunities that are available now for women in wrestling both financially and artistically in the US were unfathomable 12 years ago and it was Sasha's run of matches that pushed that boulder over the hill. I think about people like Julia, Skye, Billie, etc who were literal kids in 2015 and wonder if they would've even pursued wrestling as a career (let alone to what success) if the landscape for women's wrestling was still what it was 2013. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 hours ago, Greggulator said: Sorry if this should go in another forum. But Mercedes making her AEW debut has inspired me to rewatch the Sasha/Bayley match from NXT Takeover in Brooklyn. This is their first big PPV match. I've watched the Iron Woman match roughly 200000 times since that's my favorite type of match stipulation. First of all -- this match took place in 2015. WTF? I can't believe it was that long ago. I'm also watching this without the context of watching it in the middle of the serial drama of weekly NXT. The Four Horsewomen had been tearing down the house around NXT. The best NXT Women's match before this from my memory was Sasha vs. Becky Lynch from the Takeover before this, but they had up-and-down so many good matches. Steph is kicking off the match. Just a few weeks earlier, Steph announced the call-ups of Charlotte and Becky to side with Paige, along with the call-up of Sasha to join up with Naomi and Tamina to form Team BAD (they're there live for the match) so they could battle with the Bella Twins and I want to say Alicia Fox. It's wild, because in the intro, Steph is calling this "The Divas Revolution." They haven't done away with Divas as the branding yet. Ugh. Steph is also calling this the first of two main events of the night (some men's match is after this, I don't remember or even care.) The intro package for this is awesome. Bayley in 2015 might have been the best babyface of the century. It's either here or Sami or Yes Movement Daniel Bryan. There's this really funny moment in the video when they are playing Bayley's theme song with the wacky arms, and there's a distorted version of the song as the wacky arms are deflated. I completely forgot Bayley had to get past Charlotte and Becky before she could get to Sasha. Now I want to watch those matches. Bayley comes out to her wacky arms and the reaction is so huge. The pop for Sasha's theme is even bigger. She comes rolling out all blinged out in an Escalade, surrounded by a security team. Two of the guards hold the ropes for her. She summons the other two who lift her onto the apron. I remembered the Escalade but forgot about the security force. Sasha is also just the absolute best foil for the pure heartedness that is the version of Bayley. Sasha starts by mocking Bayley's playful outfit (complete with polka dots in tribute to Dusty.) It immediately starts with a cheapshot attempt from Sasha, but Bayley brawls back to get control. The crowd is DEAFENING with dueling chants. They start off hot -- Bayley gets Sasha in a tree of woe. She runs to the corner. I think she at the time did a sliding dropkick from this position. Sasha did a sit up while in the tree of woe to maybe counter that, only for Bayley do do a really awesome springboard elbow. There are so many good counters -- Bayley knows to protect herself against Sasha's knee smash in the corner, Sasha does some cheapshots to get Bayley back to the floor. Sasha does so many awesome taunts -- pretending to do the wacky arms before slapping Bayley across the face. There's a good control segment with Sasha working Bayley's neck, and then getting Bayley in a straigthjacket. Sasha does some trash talking but, most importantly, it's a great cue for the crowd to start to rally. Sasha goes for the double knees again, and there's a rad counter/counter headscissors between both of them. Sasha splays Bayley across the top rope, and the crowd murmurs because of the added danger... and then Sasha does the knees that way. Such an awesome moment for the match -- Sasha and Bayley have to heighten everything to go forward. Bayley's advantage comes after Sasha decides to verbally berate Bayley. But the berating really reveals Sasha's character -- "You think you're better than me because all of these people love you?" That was the magic of Sasha's character. She started off as an insecure "happy to be here" type like Bayley but then found her leggings by adapting The Boss presona... but there was always the insecurity and jealousy underneath. But Sasha regains control and gets Bayley to the floor. Sasha on the floor targets Bayley's hurt and bandaged wrist, taking off the protectve guard. There's a great spot where Sasha slams Bayley's hand on the ring steps, and then stomps in on the floor, and then wedges Bayley's hand between the ring steps and stomps. The crowd reacts like they've just seen an execution -- what a great testament to their character work and Bayley's selling. Then things GO UP another notch -- the ref is kneeling between the middle and top rope to check on Bayley, but then Sasha hurdles the ref with a sention to the floor! I don't think Sasha ever used that move before this match, and especially not with the ref decoy. Bayley tosses Sasha to the floor and the crowd is now fully behind Bayley. Sasha just being so vicious and mean really tilts a naturally heel leaning Brooklyn crowd firmly to Bayley's camp. Bayley hits an awesome Exploder Suplex kind of thing into the ropes. After some counters, Sasha gets on The Banks Statement (but without the backstabber.) Bayley crawls to the ropes, but Sasha stomps away with pure viciousness on the hurt hand. But then Bayley ends up reversing into the Banks Statement, and Sasha is screaming like it's pure death. Sasha is SO good at using her body to express pain and to reach the ropes. There's an awesome near fall when Bayley hoists Sasha onto her feet into a quick Belly-to-Bayley. The crowd is ELECTRIC with a deserved This Is Awesome chant. Bayley and Sasha end up on the top rope. Bayley goes for a hurucanrana from the top but Sasha avoids it. Bayley nearly ends her career as she spikes herself on the way down. It looks like she rung her bell real bad -- but don't fear, Sasha's going to hit a meteora off the top anyways for an epic near fall and a great "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" reaction from Sasha. They're on the top rope again, and Bayley gets the advantage with some nasty elbows. THen WTF POISON RANA FROM THE TOP FROM BAYLEY!!! She pulls the heaband, and now has the Belly-to-Bayley and wins! There's the post-match celebration, with Charlotte and Becky joining in. Sasha comes in, too. They all flash the Four Horsewomen sign. It's maybe a bit too kayfabe breaking... but, screw it, they absolutely earned it. Nobody could have predicted what the hell The Horsewomen were going to do in NXT. Dear god was this match amazing. And while I forget the context of it happening then, we do have the context of what happened over the next decade after this match. Women's matches have headlined WrestleManias. Women closing out Raw or Smackdown doesn't even make me bat an eye anymore. This match felt special at the time and it was somehow more special that we could imagine -- it literally changed wrestling history, and for the better. Now I hope Mercedes gets to change it even more in AEW. Thanks for this. Please could you do Sasha Banks vs. Bayley from NXT TakeOver: Respect as well? We've always preferred the Iron Woman match. 2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: There was a time where Sasha had Becky, Bayley, Charlotte, Ronda, Nia, Bianca and others' best matches... she was THE common denominator. Since then they've all had so many great matches that it's hard to rank them in any particular order. I'm excited to see her work all of the AEW women. Agreed. Here's my top ten Sasha Banks bouts: 10. Mercedes Mone vs. KAIRI. NJPW Battle in the Valley, 18th February 2023. 9. Sasha Banks vs. Asuka. WWE RAW, 29th January 2018. 8. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley vs. Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair. NXT TakeOver: Rival. 7. Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch. WWE Hell in a Cell 2019. 6. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley. WWE Hell in a Cell 2020. 5. Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch. NXT TakeOver: Unstoppable. 4. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair. WWE RAW, 28th November 2016. 3. Sasha Banks vs. Bianca Belair. WWE WrestleMania XXXVII. 2. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley. NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn. *****. 1. Sasha Banks vs. Bayley. NXT TakeOver: Respect. *****. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) Looking forward to Mercedes Mone vs. Jamie Hayter the most then Mone vs. Toni Storm and Mone vs. Serena Deeb to name just three. WWE's loss is AEW's gain. Said when Sasha Banks walked with Naomi that I didn't think she'd go back to WWE. Edited March 15 by The Natural 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 18 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said: Not a fan of Mercedes but I'm happy for those of you who are. I think she's crap as a face because everything about her seems like she thinks she's above it all. Promo sucked. She's tied in with my favorites in the women's division though so I'll be seeing her segments. Okada is awesome as a doucher. Hate to say it but I can see him beating Eddie next week and having a big match with PAC at Dynasty. The Swerve run in was awesome. I especially loved Nana still dancing as all the chaos was going on. Darby continues to be insane. Also, in re: to the punk talk, John Joseph from the Cro-Mags is so off the deep end. If Okada beating Eddie indeed leads to a big match with PAC at Dynasty, then I'm all for it. That way I get to see both of those matches. I don't like the idea of breaking up the Continental Triple Crown so quickly, though. It must be weird for AEW to catch a lightning in a bottle with Swerve and still have Ospreay and Okada out there waiting. Hangman and MJF will be back at some point, Moxley and Bryan (and Jay White, now too) are still alive and Samoa Joe is the champion during all of this. Even with some guys leaving and others injured, that's still quite the crop of credible top talent to go after the World title. And when they aren't challenging for the belt, the matches against one another will still be amazing. Of course, with the number of PPV's constantly increasing, the need for marquee matches on tap increases as well. Similar situation is developing on the Women's roster as well. There would be plenty of talent to go around if they were given more time. AEW won't run out of big one on one Women's world title matches any time soon, given their pace. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDhzKnMgKM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, The Natural said: Looking forward to Mercedes Mone vs. Jamie Hayter the most then Mone vs. Toni Storm and Mone vs. Serena Deeb to name just three. WWE's loss is AEW's gain. Said when Sasha Banks walked with Naomi that I didn't think she'd go back to WWE. Forgot Mercedes Mone vs. Athena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuntmanCrowley Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 56 minutes ago, The Natural said: Forgot Mercedes Mone vs. Athena. v Athena, v Hayter and v Shida are my top 3. I do want to see a verbal sparring with her and Britt though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Ratings only matter when they’re going up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 It would have been better ratings in the Tokyo Dome 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 3/14/2024 at 8:29 AM, Death From Above said: Also I have absolutely zero doubt Darby will make it to the top of Everest. It's how he's getting down I'm worried about because there's like a 50/50 shot he just coffin drops off the thing wearing a go pro. This combined with the fact that once he's up there he may decide to skateboard back down has me worried. So, if there's only 50% chance he won't JUMP to begin with... damn! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 For real though Darby is attempting a serious physical endeavour while already banged up and without a ton of training and body fat for energy/warmth so good luck to him. Apparently you can’t make a climb without a group to vouch for you so he shouldn’t be able to do anything too dumb but a dude died climbing solo 20 years ago. Hopefully he’s been training enough that he doesn’t get altitude sickness at base camp and can’t do anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I just watched the Iron Woman. It’s a perfect wrestling match. I don’t know what else can be said about it. Ironman matches are my favorite gimmick. One of the pet peeves with an Ironman is when and how a first fall comes. An Ironman always comes at the end of a feud, and by that time you’ve seen the participants have these long matches and then the first fall comes like six minutes into it. The Brooklyn classic went just about 20 minutes. The first fall in this one comes with nine minutes gone, but these two had so many NXT TV matches that went about that length, so it does not feel egregious. Another thing with Ironman matches is that the matches can get driven by when the falls come. But this match is driven by the characters and their motivations first — just like any good wrestling match or, frankly, any narrative in ant art form. This is an absolute masterpiece in character work in any kind of performance art. It is really transcendent. The big pivot of the story takes place before the first fall. Ahead of that, it’s a whole “these two women respect each other” vibe. Bayley goes to respectfully lift Sasha up out of the corner, and Sasha does this awesome “I really appreciate this and respect you too” face before snatching Bayley’s wig and throwing her onto the mat. That just starts Sasha putting on an all-time great hammy villainess performances. I say hammy as a compliment, because wrestling should always be over-the-top. It’s why we love it. And the motivation is clear. Sasha does not think she can beat Bayley without being even more despicable than the Brooklyn match, and she’s not wrong. The first fall comes soon after. There is a switcheroo that ends with Sasha in the corner blocking the ref’s vision, followed by an awesome looking eye poke (Bayley is the absolute best at selling those types of things) before a roll-up. Perfect — the villain takes the lead by being diabolical, and now our beloved hero has to fight from underneath. The whole rest of the match, Sasha either cheats or usually does something heinous but within the rules. One of my favorite spots — Bayley went to the well too often with her corner dropkick on the floor. Sasha caught her legs and then swung Bayley’s head and back into the steps (actually catching more of the corner, which I doubt was intentional, but it is NASTY.) This happens right in front of Bayley’s family and Bayley Superfan (and audience proxy Izzy.) Sasha of course has to taunt them. This leads to one of the truly iconic moments in wrestling heeldom. Sasha gets her second fall by marching Bayley (selling like she’s endured major head trauma) up to the ramp where she throws Bayley head first into the LED countdown clock that flickers in and off, which is such great wrestling nonsense. Sasha then on her way back snatches Izzy’s headband, crawls into the ring to beat the count, mocks Bayley, does a fake cry taunt, and then snaps the headband before whipping it back to a now sobbing Izzy. Sasha gets some massive heel heat for this and it is truly a chef’s kiss of wrestling. There are a lot of callbacks and reversals from the Brooklyn match. My favorite: Bayley goes for the top rope poison rana like in Brooklyn, but Sasha rolls through (the agility to do that is unreal) and then Bayley adjusts her ponytail as the visual cue for her finisher, only to eat the Belly to Bayley from Sasha for a great near fall. But the ultimate callback comes from Bayley realizing she has to fight fire with fire to win — like some kind of action movie hero who starts of innocent but then knows he/she has to do what the bad guys do to save the day. Bayley is on the floor and does some really good and nasty looking work on Sasha’s left hand, just like what Sasha did so viciously to Bayley in Brooklyn. Bayley smashes Sasha’s hands into the ringsteps, she does an arm breaker thing through the ropes, etc. This first leads to Sasha not being able to fully hook the Bank Statement (procured after a reversal of a reversal, another evolution from the Brooklyn match.) Bayley then reverses it into her own submission, wrenching on the fingers she attacked earlier, while stomping away on Sasha’s face with her boot like Sasha did to her in Brooklyn, And like all good villains, Sasha does not have the guts to hold on and reveals her ultimate cowardice and verbally taps out with just a few seconds left. (They also avoided the dumb ‘overtime’ Ironman gimmick that happens so much. I know Bryan/MJF’s Ironman was fantastic, but the overtime addendum and confusion from it was so bad.) Afterwards, the locker room pours out, and the other Horsewomen and HHH are there. They literally give them both their flowers. The emotion is absolutely real. And fully earned. Painting one masterpiece is hard enough. They then had to do so in one of the most anticipated matches in WWE history (it really was) and with a gimmick that can really get tripped up. They more than delivered. This is one of the best matches in WWE history. My all-time favorite match was the epic Shield/Wyatts from 2014… but man, I might need to change that. Mercedes absolutely friggin’ rules. I hope the rest of the division can get elevated because she is a generational talent. I just hope Tony does not get wonky with it and Sasha ends up like the BCC where they’re sometimes heels and sometimes badass faces and it never really makes sense. Face Sasha aligned with Willow to go after Julia and Sky Blue is fine enough. The two witches will get better by being in the ring with a maestro. But the real storytelling magic awaits when The CEO backstabs Willow because if anyone in AEW can be a breakout babyface once they have a proper evil foil to overcome, it’s Willow. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Octopus said: It would have been better ratings in the Tokyo Dome The Tokyo Dome would hold a million people that night. Then David Zaslav would explode with joy. (Though I'm sure we'd wish he'd just explode.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Godfrey said: Ratings only matter when they’re going up Unless we get insight into what Warner Discovery/TNT/TBS consider good ratings or a baseline bottom number that would cause them concern, then its all pointless speculation. Also: Edited March 15 by Log 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I haven't watched WWE in over 8 years, so I missed most of Mercedes' heyday and am pretty much unfamiliar with her work. Coming in cold, I'll say she has incredible charisma. But she also comes off very inauthentic, and that's at the feet of her being "WWE born and bred." Walk out of the entrance, be sure to hit that pose we came up with for you, walk to the ring in your specific character fashion, and do the pose again, etc. It's just so manufactured and fake. And that dance. Jesus Christ. That fucking dance. After her very good promo, she danced. And danced. Same move. Over and over. It was like she didn't know what else to do. Same thing at the end of the show. Fuck. Jaw at the fans, climb the ropes and celebrate, go slap some hands. Anything. But she just kept spamming that same move over and over. I was overwhelmed with secondhand embarrassment. As much as WWE feels like they need to retrain bad habits out of experienced performers, I think that should go both ways. WWE Style presentation creates products, not people, and it's glaring how disingenuous it looks when they show up in AEW and do that same played out stuff. Mercedes' presentation felt like a TGI Friday's waiter got a new job at a decent restaurant and showed up on day 1 with 41 pieces of flair. Or the guy who plays Goofy at Disneyland got an office gig and showed up in his Goofy suit. Just so out of place and weird. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 32 minutes ago, Log said: Unless we get insight into what Warner Discovery/TNT/TBS consider good ratings or a baseline bottom number that would cause them concern, then its all pointless speculation. Also: I was just having some fun and don’t actually want to jump into this but we do have an idea of what they want (keep it over 500k) and half the discussions on this board are pointless speculation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Greggulator said: This leads to one of the truly iconic moments in wrestling heeldom. Sasha gets her second fall by marching Bayley (selling like she’s endured major head trauma) up to the ramp where she throws Bayley head first into the LED countdown clock that flickers in and off, which is such great wrestling nonsense. Sasha then on her way back snatches Izzy’s headband, crawls into the ring to beat the count, mocks Bayley, does a fake cry taunt, and then snaps the headband before whipping it back to a now sobbing Izzy. Sasha gets some massive heel heat for this and it is truly a chef’s kiss of wrestling. Years from now, remember this, when the newly All Elite Izzy takes her revenge like Nakia from Kill Bill Vol 1 will take on the Black Mamba some day. Her being the one to send Mercedes back to WWE or possibly even into retirement... that's what pro wrestling is all about. 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Technico Support said: I haven't watched WWE in over 8 years, so I missed most of Mercedes' heyday and am pretty much unfamiliar with her work. Coming in cold, I'll say she has incredible charisma. But she also comes off very inauthentic, and that's at the feet of her being "WWE born and bred." Walk out of the entrance, be sure to hit that pose we came up with for you, walk to the ring in your specific character fashion, and do the pose again, etc. It's just so manufactured and fake. And that dance. Jesus Christ. That fucking dance. After her very good promo, she danced. And danced. Same move. Over and over. It was like she didn't know what else to do. Same thing at the end of the show. Fuck. Jaw at the fans, climb the ropes and celebrate, go slap some hands. Anything. But she just kept spamming that same move over and over. I was overwhelmed with secondhand embarrassment. Dictionary definition: Also known as "Doing a Penta". ;). Edited March 15 by The Natural 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) Remember when Penta told Cody he was going to break his arm so he couldn't hold his newborn baby? That really fired up the Nightmare. Too bad we didn't get one of those patented WWE voice crack and tears promos following. Also, Alex Abrahantes was a great heel. The finish of the match (a rotten no sell of an armbreaker) was my Cody in AEW lowlight. Edited March 15 by HarryArchieGus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 3 hours ago, Technico Support said: But she also comes off very inauthentic, and that's at the feet of her being "WWE born and bred." Walk out of the entrance, be sure to hit that pose we came up with for you, walk to the ring in your specific character fashion, and do the pose again, etc. It's just so manufactured and fake. Kenny does this too. They brought him up right in Deep South. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said: Kenny does this too. They brought him up right in Deep South. They both like video games too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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