WWE RAW MOVING TO NETFLIX! EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!

[zendragon]

5 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

I wonder if it's more or less of a downgrade in visibility than the move to TNN/Spike was. 

I don’t know Spike was at a time where basic cable was like 20 some channels 

[John from Cincinnati]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

I’m Excited for the return of the Thunderdome 

It’s bad enough that I need to watch an event this weekend that takes place from the armpit of MLB stadiums, the Trop. Stop! 

[Dog]

By the time the Netflix deal starts (next January), it'll likely be an UPGRADE in visibility.

[Kevin Wilson]

Even though I'm not a RAW guy (I only watch WWE PLEs) I do think this is good for wrestling, or minimally very interesting for wrestling. I was one of those rooting hard five years ago for Lucha Underground to get a Netflix deal, as I always thought there was potential there. The big question mark of course is if fans that currently watch RAW but don't have Netflix, will pay the $15+ a month just to watch RAW. One positive is that now in 2024, more homes have the capability to stream at least. That was one big concern five, ten years ago. Obviously there will be some people that live in really rural areas won't be able to stream but its a small enough percentage that I don't think major companies care.

My "gut" is that Netflix, who really analyze their views and don't mind cancelling shows that don't yield the numbers they want, will opt out in five years. I'll be surprised if RAW brings in the new subscribers/gets the views to justify their cost. That doesn't mean I am rooting for it to fail (and even if Netflix does opt out, RAW will quickly find a home on cable again), its just feels like an experiment by Netflix that future execs may not want to stick with if the numbers don't justify it. Don't forget that the CEO of Fox said WWE didn't deliver the return they wanted which is why they moved on from them, so its not outside the scope of possibility that Netflix who also has strict expectations for their shows will reach the same conclusion.

I do think they need to cut it back to two hours. If they want to bring in people that have Netflix but either don't watch wrestling or haven't watched in awhile, three hours is just... a lot. I imagine they will get a big push in marketing, maybe with new champions/new wrestlers heading into 2025 so its going to be exciting, hopefully WWE can deliver.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

With regards to Fox on Smackdown, I think WWE were *very* nonchalant about that show at the start. Looking at a list of the main-events and.....goddamn.

[odessasteps]

I wonder what % of the audience they think will watch Live versus On Demand later. I presume they think it will be like live sports being DVR proof but I don't know if that's true in 2024 for "the key demo." 

[Leonidas]

WWE is locked behind paywalls in the UK of either BT TV or the WWE network, + PLEs are extra and extortionate. With this change, a lot more eyeballs will be on WWE product in the UK. And I'm sure this will be a similar story in many other countries. Tony Khan will need to respond by getting better TV deals and slots in those countries for AEW or their impact and momentum will be considerably lessened by this change. 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

The other key thing is just device access - maybe it's possible to legally stream Raw right now, idk. But with Netflix, piece of piss. 5 quid pm if you can bear ads over the Lashley video packages - Raw, SD, NXT + PLEs on demand...plus archive and ofc whatever else Netflix has going on. I mean it's alright innit? Definitely a good deal for 'WM season'.

Perhaps this isn't for everyone, but anyone in US who can get past Netflix's fairly rudimentary VPN blocks can presumably just use Netflix + VPN rather than Peacock. Might be a bit brave with Live TV idk but who can say right now? Maybe US subscribers won't be able to access WWE content even if they 'travel to Europe'. I guess ppl could be doing that already with Peacock - they probably shouldn't be, but when you've got Uncle Roger promoting VPN use to get the best out of Netflix every other yt upload then it feels like ppl think it's fair game.

Amazon Elite Wrestling anyone?

Oh yeah, & presumably we see 4K for the first time. Eep.

Edited January 24 by StretchMediatedHypertrophy

[nickp]

TNT Sports where WWE is right now has under 2 million subscribers Netflix in the UK has 16.7 million subscribers

[Godfrey]

From my cursory reading it seems like Netflix's method of measuring success fits wrestling perfectly, way better than the more static content they have been producing. The issue as others have said is that it may take down less viewed content arbitrarily but perhaps it would just move to Peacock

Honestly, this move won't affect my life at all. I've never paid just to get RAW or Smackdown and I won't start now, if it's on a channel or service I already have then great and if it isn't then I'll handle it

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

12 hours ago, Dog said:

By the time the Netflix deal starts (next January), it'll likely be an UPGRADE in visibility.

At the rate cable is shedding customers in the United States, as long as Netflix doesn't start losing their customers as well, I think this is a pretty safe bet.

[Mister TV]

1 hour ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

At the rate cable is shedding customers in the United States, as long as Netflix doesn't start losing their customers as well, I think this is a pretty safe bet.

What's vMVPD? Is that something like YouTubeTV?

 

[EVA]

5 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

What's vMVPD? Is that something like YouTubeTV?

 

Yeah Sling, Roku, etc.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

45 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

What's vMVPD? Is that something like YouTubeTV?

 

Correct, like EVA said. Those aren't picking up subscribers at the rate traditional cable is losing them, but at least that's slowing the tide a little.

[Technico Support]

I had Sling for a long time, until I realized all I used it for was wrestling, so I was paying $40/month for just AEW.  I got a vpn and AEW+ on Triller instead, so I cut my spend in half and now I get it commercial free.

[John from Cincinnati]

10 hours ago, StretchMediatedHypertrophy said:

Amazon Elite Wrestling anyone?

HBO Maxwell Jacob Friedman 

[DMJ]

- Re: whether this is a "downgrade" similar to when they left USA for Spike, I don't remember that being considered a real downgrade at the time. My memory - which very much could've been shaded by the WWE's PR spin of things - was that, yes, WWE had landed on Spike (actually TNN at the time), which had less reach than USA, but the bigger deal was that they now were working with Viacom's slate of cable channels, which meant huge exposure on MTV, VH1, and potentially Nickelodeon, as well as - if I'm not mistaken - a big publishing deal with Simon & Schuster. Plus, you had the opportunity for WWE to do late night shows on Saturdays on CBS just like they had done on NBC in the 80s and 90s. TNN's re-branding as Spike was practically built around Raw being the network's new flagship.

But then the WWE's ratings and mainstream appeal dipped and kept dipping and the company dug their heels in and continued to promote a hyper-masculine, ultra-violent product. Perfectly fine for Spike - the "Network for Men" - but not necessarily a great way to build a bigger audience.

And because the WWE double-downed on a hyper-masculine, ultra-aggressive style, they became a bit of an albatross on MTV. The comparisons to bands like Limp Bizkit, Korn, and their ilk is particularly apt. Huge in 2000 and essentially the spiritual soundtrack to the later years of the Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression years, within a few years, they were the opposite of cool. Mudvayne was out, 50 Cent was in. MTV dropped Sunday Night Heat from its line-up in 2003, kicking the show over to Spike. 

And also because the WWE had got even more sexist, even more violent, and even more bloody over this time, as far as I remember, they never did air any specials on CBS, let alone get exposure on Nickelodeon. 
 

Ultimately, the failure of the WWE/Viacom deal, to me, comes down to the fact that Viacom "bought high" on a product that was actually peaking creatively and in terms of mainstream appeal at the time of the purchase, only neither side really knew it (or could admit it). And then when it began to fall within 2 years of the deal, Viacom pushed it all into the SpikeTV corner and just hoped the "wrestling stink" wouldn't rub off on any of their other properties.

[blitzkrieg]

The one thing that kinda sticks out to me is that you have rural areas where people might have had access to USA via satellite tv but don't have access to high speed internet.

[Curt McGirt]

I was just reminded why I don't bother with Netflix (or Amazon Prime for that matter): Whenever you want to see something it either isn't on there or they charge you. I finished up watching The Sopranos again (the damn replays got me) and wanted to watch The Many Saints of Newark. HBO On Demand didn't have it and led me to Netflix, as I'd forgotten it was a Netflix Original. Netflix... does not have a Netflix Original. I mean if you cycle out your own programming, which people ostensibly pay you for, what the fuck is wrong with you?

EDIT: HBO On Demand does this too. I had never watched The Corner and had to find it online, thankfully the whole miniseries was on Youtube. They do this with old stuff. You'd think it'd be like the Network, but...

Edited January 25 by Curt McGirt

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

48 minutes ago, blitzkrieg said:

The one thing that kinda sticks out to me is that you have rural areas where people might have had access to USA via satellite tv but don't have access to high speed internet.

Rural broadband programs have been increasingly stepping up, in between mobile broadband services and an increased push for fiber optic cable infrastructure. It'll never be perfect, but if an area can get cell coverage these days, it can get high speed internet.

[John from Cincinnati]

35 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I was just reminded why I don't bother with Netflix (or Amazon Prime for that matter): Whenever you want to see something it either isn't on there or they charge you. I finished up watching The Sopranos again (the damn replays got me) and wanted to watch The Many Saints of Newark. HBO On Demand didn't have it and led me to Netflix, as I'd forgotten it was a Netflix Original. Netflix... does not have a Netflix Original. I mean if you cycle out your own programming, which people ostensibly pay you for, what the fuck is wrong with you?

EDIT: HBO On Demand does this too. I had never watched The Corner and had to find it online, thankfully the whole miniseries was on Youtube. They do this with old stuff. You'd think it'd be like the Network, but...

It’s not a Netflix original. That was Warner and New Line and premiered on HBO. Or am I mistaken? 
 

Say what you will of Netflix, I haven’t had any problem finding their originals even years after the fact on the service. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

5 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

It’s not a Netflix original. That was Warner and New Line and premiered on HBO. Or am I mistaken? 
 

Say what you will of Netflix, I haven’t had any problem finding their originals even years after the fact on the service. 

Justwatch says Many Saints of Newark is on Max.

[Elsalvajeloco]

16 hours ago, DMJ said:

- Re: whether this is a "downgrade" similar to when they left USA for Spike, I don't remember that being considered a real downgrade at the time. My memory - which very much could've been shaded by the WWE's PR spin of things - was that, yes, WWE had landed on Spike (actually TNN at the time), which had less reach than USA, but the bigger deal was that they now were working with Viacom's slate of cable channels, which meant huge exposure on MTV, VH1, and potentially Nickelodeon, as well as - if I'm not mistaken - a big publishing deal with Simon & Schuster. Plus, you had the opportunity for WWE to do late night shows on Saturdays on CBS just like they had done on NBC in the 80s and 90s. TNN's re-branding as Spike was practically built around Raw being the network's new flagship.

But then the WWE's ratings and mainstream appeal dipped and kept dipping and the company dug their heels in and continued to promote a hyper-masculine, ultra-violent product. Perfectly fine for Spike - the "Network for Men" - but not necessarily a great way to build a bigger audience.

And because the WWE double-downed on a hyper-masculine, ultra-aggressive style, they became a bit of an albatross on MTV. The comparisons to bands like Limp Bizkit, Korn, and their ilk is particularly apt. Huge in 2000 and essentially the spiritual soundtrack to the later years of the Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression years, within a few years, they were the opposite of cool. Mudvayne was out, 50 Cent was in. MTV dropped Sunday Night Heat from its line-up in 2003, kicking the show over to Spike. 

And also because the WWE had got even more sexist, even more violent, and even more bloody over this time, as far as I remember, they never did air any specials on CBS, let alone get exposure on Nickelodeon. 
 

Ultimately, the failure of the WWE/Viacom deal, to me, comes down to the fact that Viacom "bought high" on a product that was actually peaking creatively and in terms of mainstream appeal at the time of the purchase, only neither side really knew it (or could admit it). And then when it began to fall within 2 years of the deal, Viacom pushed it all into the SpikeTV corner and just hoped the "wrestling stink" wouldn't rub off on any of their other properties.

That whole no competition thing didn't work out like the WWE expected. When wrestling was "cool", you had multiple organizations including a red hot WWF. The appeal and intrigue wanes once it's essentially one option with the same mindset and a homogenous way of storytelling. It doesn't help that the company that launched on TNN/Spike feels so disconnected from the era of just two or three years prior. You look at everything from the roster to how the main eventers were utilized in certain roles to the overall lackadaisical presentation. It felt like a victory lap. You can do that on USA, but if I was Viacom, that's definitely not what I want. If you go back and watch an average Raw from that time period, most are solid to very good. However, you can condense the best content to maybe 10-20 minutes. You're getting a lot of mediocre ideas that feel like just plot devices to get to the next PPV.  Meanwhile, a few years later, Spike gets UFC when they had been gaining a solid amount of momentum after UFC 40 (Ortiz vs Shamrock I) and weren't overexposed to a mainstream audience. UFC also could be amendable to what Spike needed it to be. IMO it's the same as when Vince wanted to upgrade WWF's presentation when they started doing specials and got on NBC. Dick Ebersol helped mold it into something that felt big time. Best Damn Sports Show, Period era UFC feels like a much different world than 2005-2007 UFC where Yahoo Sports is forced to hire a team of writers just to cover UFC/MMA. The inflexible nature of what WWE was at the time led to that deal failing. 

[Curt McGirt]

Okay, I don't have Max, that explains it. Yet it showed on Netflix and they asked me to make a reminder about it? Whatever. I just stole it off Soulseek and will erase it again after I'm done.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Okay, I don't have Max, that explains it. Yet it showed on Netflix and they asked me to make a reminder about it? Whatever. I just stole it off Soulseek and will erase it again after I'm done.

Two notes:

1) If you have HBO through your cable, you very likely have Max. Use your cable credentials to sign into Max and it should let you in.

2) It's been a while since I've had Netflix but they would have profiles for their shows to save them to your life and would contact you if they were ever added to their library to let you know they'd been added. I don't know if that's still the case. (I migrated everything to Letterboxd which just lets me know when stuff on my watchlist has been added to a subscription service I have, and that's easier for me to keep track. YMMV.)