2024 STUFF ABOUT SPORTS MEDIA THREAD

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, supremebve said:

Between that and the Pistons and their  "Larry Bird would be just another good player if he was black," comment, we were so close to actually telling the truth until we decided to keep the lie alive. Larry Bird was one of the best players of all time,  but was covered likehe was bar-none the best of all time. Larry was treated like the main character in a league full of great players. All the other great players,  including the Pistons who were better than the Celtics at the time,  resented being treated like costars when it was their turn to be the main character. Instead of addressing their role in the way they treated Larry Bird,  the media acted like The Pistons were crazy for saying it. The conversation is actually more interesting than the lie if you have the ability to address the issue. The NBA is the only sport where we always have a main character, and the way we talk about the league is always about how everyone else revolves around the main character. The last 5 years or so have been weird,  because LeBron is the main character,  but not the best player. The list of new main characters is limited,  because we won't allow a foreign born player be the main character. So we can't have Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, Luka or SGA... so the NBA media is hoping Anthony Edwards becomes that guy. Isaiah Thomas resents the fact that he was never the main character until this day, and as much as we laugh at it,  he's kind of right. There is no real reason to not push the best player as the main character. He was the best player on the best team for two years,  but no one ever treated him like he was Magic, Larry,  or Michael despite beating all the of them.  We decided the main character in basketball has to fit certain criteria, and Isiah fits them all.  Not only did we skip him,  we laugh at him for being mad at being skipped. I have so many opinions about how the NBA is covered and how it makes huge stars,  but also minimizes a lot of great players. 

I pretty much agree with 99.9% of what you're saying, but I will say that I dunno if the Association or fans won't allow a foreign born player to be the face of the league. However, because there isn't a defacto #1 for the last several years. There are a bunch of 1A 1B 1C 1D 1Es and you go from there. Bron got that mantle because the league was certainly his. Steph and for a little while Kawhi and Durant made it very interesting, but it was largely his (LeBron). Right now, there is such an amazing array of talent at the top and league wide that unless someone clearly runs away with, there won't be a new guy to replace LeBron. Even if he retires. And I would be totally fine with that because there is no need for one singular face. The league has grown beyond that whereas the WNBA being on the ascent right now needs that.

[Brian Fowler]

I do think Bird being the only player to win three straight MVP awards since we moved to media voting instead of players is awfully telling. There weren't three straight years where LeBron or MJ was the MVP, but there were three straight in the mid-80's where Bird was? Hmmmm

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

10 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I do think Bird being the only player to win three straight MVP awards since we moved to media voting instead of players is awfully telling. There weren't three straight years where LeBron or MJ was the MVP, but there were three straight in the mid-80's where Bird was? Hmmmm

Why is this like so many other things here turning into a race issue? Who gives a damn in all honesty? Lebron shouldn’t have three straight MVPs ever. The team jumping to Miami disqualifies those seasons as playing with Wade and Bosh would make any Star look like an MVP, the second Cavs run wasn’t long enough to have earned three in a row, and he definitely hasn’t produced three in a row in LA.

I’m going to look up Bird’s wins then the years MJ didn’t win and see what I think. Birds first of the three peat was before MJ turned pro so that’s a clear win, his second was the year MJ came in fifth and Bird blew out Magic who was the runner up, and Birds third was the year Jordan missed most of the season. So yeah I see why Bird three peated. How up in arms would you be if Jokic was rightfully on his fourth in a row this year instead of them gift wrapping it for Embiid last year?

As for MJ not three peating how could he? Magic deserved it in 88-89 and 89-90 and like it or not Barkley earned his in 92-93. The only one I’d argue was Malone beating him in 96-97 but that doesn’t fit your argument as it would just be taking it from a player that’s African American and giving it to another.

[madl]

12 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I do think Bird being the only player to win three straight MVP awards since we moved to media voting instead of players is awfully telling. There weren't three straight years where LeBron or MJ was the MVP, but there were three straight in the mid-80's where Bird was? Hmmmm

I mean, if Bird wasn’t the MVP those three years, he was what?  Second?  Third?   It’s not like he was 83rd in the league.  Most years you can make a great case for at least two or three guys, so you might just as well draw a name out of a hat.  After a certain point, it’s really hard to quantify of Bird or Magic or MJ did more for their teams. And voters rarely even consider players on teams that don’t make the playoffs.

At some point, you just have to shrug and admit you’re picking one of the worthy candidates, not the worthiest candidate.  I doubt players get it any more right than sports writers on a consistent basis.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

32 minutes ago, madl said:

I mean, if Bird wasn’t the MVP those three years, he was what?  Second?  Third?   It’s not like he was 83rd in the league.  Most years you can make a great case for at least two or three guys, so you might just as well draw a name out of a hat.  After a certain point, it’s really hard to quantify of Bird or Magic or MJ did more for their teams. And voters rarely even consider players on teams that don’t make the playoffs.

At some point, you just have to shrug and admit you’re picking one of the worthy candidates, not the worthiest candidate.  I doubt players get it any more right than sports writers on a consistent basis.

It wasn't so much drawn out of a hat, though. Bird was near-unanimous all three years, which is odd. Here's the first place votes.
- 1983-84: Bird 53, Bernard King 11, Magic 5, Kareem 3, Isiah Thomas/Dr. J/Adrian Dantley/Sidney Moncrief/Jeff Ruland all with 1
- 1984-85: Bird 73, Terry Cummings/Michael Jordan 2, Magic 1
- 1985-86: Bird 73, Dominique Wilkins 5

Bird was very good all three years, easily top three (especially with Magic and Kareem splitting stats/star power for the Lakers). That level of overwhelming votes for MVP though? That just seems odd. Looking at the stats for all three years, although Bird is great, it seems as though he gets credit for the fact that the Celtics as a whole are a great team. If Magic and Kareem get punished because they're both around 20 points per game on average, why does Bird not get punished for Kevin McHale doing the same?

[odessasteps]

I'd be inclined to say, especially early on, it was viewed as Bird as the #1, followed by Parish, McHale, DJ and others. Whereas my memory says the Lakers were viewed as more balanced between Magic, KAB, Worthy and then the others. And Julius was on the downside with Barkley not there yet. And then all the other all-stars scattered around the league.

But the league was definitely marketed around Bird/Magic as the rivalry and the 2 flagship franchises. 

[Mister TV]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I'd be inclined to say, especially early on, it was viewed as Bird as the #1, followed by Parish, McHale, DJ and others. Whereas my memory says the Lakers were viewed as more balanced between Magic, KAB, Worthy and then the others. And Julius was on the downside with Barkley not there yet. And then all the other all-stars scattered around the league.

But the league was definitely marketed around Bird/Magic as the rivalry and the 2 flagship franchises. 

Moses Malone was the #1 of those Sixer teams, that’s why he won back to back MVP’s in 82 & 83 along with the Finals MVP. 

[RIPPA]

Okay - since some of you still insist on using Dov Kleiman as a source... you really really should stop now

https://awfulannouncing.com/twitter/dov-kleiman-no-comment-speculation-x-account-sold.html

Basically - the person running the account almost assuredly sold the account and the new person is going to just blatantly make shit up (as opposed to stealing it without credit)

[Dolfan in NYC]

Getting SAS to shut up on his own show...  hoo girl... good job!

You can see Smith internally debate "engage or not" and thankfully choose the latter.  But I'm guessing their conversation during the commercial break was to put it mildly...  quite spicy.

[hammerva]

Screaming A should probably send Pat McAfee a fruit basket for that "white bitch" line that he made about Caitlin Clark today.  Granted I think he was being positive.  Actually I know he was being positive acting she was the only star to come out of that draft.

 

[supremebve]

I hate to say,  "I told you so," but... who am I kidding I love saying "I told you so." I knew people were going to trip over themselves to embarrass themselves on television. The craziest part to me is how many people go on television and act like that the rest of the WNBA should go easy on Caitlin Clark when nobody would ever say that about a male athlete. She's paying her dues like literally everyone else,  and to her credit she's never the one complaining about it.  Here's the thing, if she's good enough,  she'll be a bigger star if she overcomes the rookie struggles. Nobody benefits if she just comes in and runs the league from her rookie season. Everyone benefits if better players make a name styling in her for a season or two, before she overcomes and become the best player in the league. She is in the exact position she should be in to ultimately become the player she needs to be. 

[odessasteps]

40 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Actually I know he was being positive acting she was the only star to come out of that draft.

I had to read that twice, given the verbiage.

[clintthecrippler]

All of the above once again reinforcing the decision i made many years ago to not engage in any broadcasted sports media at all except for halftime discussions and occasional pre-game shows and post-game wrapup attached to game broadcasts. 

[Dolfan in NYC]

Oh he got into legit trouble...

As far as mea culpa's go, that one ain't bad.

[supremebve]

Did anyone have Stugotz and Colin Cowherd as two of the better sports commentators on this whole Caitlin Clark situation?  I feel like both of them understand sports radio as a concept better than most and immediately recognized that the problem isn't anything going on with the WNBA and 100% a problem with how nobody in sports media is ready to talk about competition that involves women.  Stugotz, who's a championship-winning women's lacrosse coach, made the point that everything happening to Caitlin Clark is just par for the course when any high-profile player enters a league.  She doesn't get a pass because she's a woman.  He said anyone who has been around women in sports knew that everyone would be going after her as soon as she got into the league because no one gets to that level of competition without being a cut-throat competitor.  Colin Cowherd may have made the best point I've heard about the entire situation when he said the problem is that everyone in sports media is treating Caitlin Clark like she's fragile.  In reality, the women in the WNBA aren't fragile, the people talking about the WNBA are fragile.  I may have guessed that Stugotz would have perspective on this if I accounted for his coaching experience, but I would have never guessed Cowherd would be someone who fully understood the situation.  

[hammerva]

 Wait Stugotz is an actual college women's lacrosse coach?  I thought it was just that his daughter was playing on a championship women's lacrosse team 

The best line from Stugotz on this was something like "we have been talking about men's basketball for about 40 years and we aren't good at that"

[Tabe]

13 hours ago, supremebve said:

 everything happening to Caitlin Clark is just par for the course when any high-profile player enters a league. 

This is a huge exaggeration.  Where's the highlight reel of guys cheapshotting Wembanyama repeatedly?  Or Zion?  Or CJ Stroud?  Not just hard fouls or rough tackles but blatant, outside the play, runs from behind?  

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

8 hours ago, Tabe said:

This is a huge exaggeration.  Where's the highlight reel of guys cheapshotting Wembanyama repeatedly?  Or Zion?  Or CJ Stroud?  Not just hard fouls or rough tackles but blatant, outside the play, runs from behind?  

It’s not worth the effort. They’re the same poster that was trying to race bait over the lack of back to back to back NBA MVP since Bird in the 80’s and using LeBron as why it should’ve happened more recently. I think they just want to start fights. 

[Travis Sheldon]

Quit cryin' and start flyin' (Elbows, that is)

Sorry, had to try to get a Dustyesque promo in there somewhere.

 

[Gonzo]

11 hours ago, Travis Sheldon said:

Quit cryin' and start flyin' (Elbows, that is)

Sorry, had to try to get a Dustyesque promo in there somewhere.

 

Angel Reeth put HAHD TAHHHHHHMES. . .on the WNBA, baby.

[supremebve]

On 6/7/2024 at 9:37 AM, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

It’s not worth the effort. They’re the same poster that was trying to race bait over the lack of back to back to back NBA MVP since Bird in the 80’s and using LeBron as why it should’ve happened more recently. I think they just want to start fights. 

That's not even remotely close to what I said. I said and stand by the fact that the media covering the NBA always seems to decide on a main character when discussing the league. The Pistons who were the best team at the time recognized that Larry Bird was the main character and made the statement that is he was black he be just another great player. The person who made that statement was a black dude they treated like just another great player even after he went through Magic, Bird, and the guy they were setting up as the next main character, Michael Jordan. It was Isaiah Thomas' turn to be the #1 guy and he didn't get it and he's still salty about it.  I didn't even insinuate that LeBron should have won more MVPs, if anything I said it was bullshit that were still talking about LeBron as the main character this many years after he isn't the best player.  

As far as Caitlin Clark goes,  the WNBA is a much more chippy league than the NBA or most men's sports. The person who cheapshotted Caitlin Clark was out of the league for a while because she kept getting into physical altercations with other players including her own teammates. This is not a conspiracy,  this is a league that makes you earn your respect. This isn't new,  it's just a lot of new eyeballs seeing it for the first time. 

[odessasteps]

You can argue it's always been a star driven league from Mikan to Wilt to Russell/West to Kareem to Doc to Bird/Magic to MJ to Kobe/?Shaq to LeBron to the present. 

Edited June 10, 2024 by odessasteps

[Dolfan in NYC]

Buster Olney's Twitter got hacked.  

 

Cause it's either that or he just announced a crypto coin along with half the league announcing trades in the last 30 minutes.

[supremebve]

59 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You can argue it's always been a star driven league from Mikan to Wilt to Russell/West to Kareem to Doc to Bird/Magic to MJ to Kobe/?Shaq to LeBron to the present. 

It's not even an argument,  it's a fact. Kareem didn't really get it to be the main character like he should have. He's kind of the best case of what I'm taking about. Kareem was better than Magic,  but Magic was the main character. Caitlin Clark is the main character,  full stop. There had never been a women's basketball player who has mattered seen half a much as her to the general public. The league is full of women who have been doing this for years without any attention and they're all incredibly fierce competitors so aren't afraid to get physical. The NBA is a much more wide open, high flying league. The WNBA isn't that wide open, it's in many ways a much more physical league than the NBA.

[odessasteps]

Where do Nancy Lieberman, Cheryl Miller and Rebecca Lobo fit on the women’s basketball timeline?